---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/12/12: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:00 PM - FireFly Wing Brace Repair (Jack B. Hart) 2. 12:12 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (John Hauck) 3. 12:48 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (Richard Girard) 4. 01:12 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (Phil) 5. 02:29 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (John Hauck) 6. 02:30 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (John Hauck) 7. 03:02 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com) 8. 07:58 PM - Altitude/speed control on approach (David Kulp) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:33 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Kolb-List: FireFly Wing Brace Repair FireFlyers, This is a little late but it may still be of some use especially to those who are in the building process. Back on November 9, 2010 I was cleaning the wings when I discovered a rattle in the outboard portion of the wings. I was in the process of mounting the MZ 34 and so I didn't put the knife to the wing fabric until March 17, 2011. What I found was that the long diagonal brace from the outboard rear corner to the main spar had failed in each wing. I do not believe these to be really critical because the load that the outer wing panel carries is quite small. But because it is there, I repaired it. Finished the repairs on July 13, 2011. I took quite a few photos, and I put them up with some description of how I fixed the problem. It can be seen at: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly164.html For those of you who have a FireFly under construction, it may be helpful to add a small aluminum angle to this brace to prevent the tube from going out of column when you shrink the wing fabric. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:07 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: FireFly Wing Brace Repair What I found was that the long diagonal brace from the outboard rear corner to the main spar had failed in each wing. I do not believe these to be really critical because the load that the outer wing panel carries is quite small. But because it is there, I repaired it. Finished the repairs on July 13, 2011. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jack H/Kolbers: Believe that is a fabric brace that does its job in tension. As the fabric is shrunk it prevents the outboard aft corner of the rear wing spar in line and not pushed backwards. Dennis Souder can correct me if I am wrong. For that matter, anyone else can too. ;-) john h mkIII Titus, Alabama - Fourth day of whining about my virus that is running rampart through the SE. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireFly Wing Brace Repair From: Richard Girard Jack, I found similar damage on my Firestar when I removed the covering. Apparently it is an area of concern for the 5 rib Firestar, too. Rick Girard On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Jack B. Hart wrote: > > FireFlyers, > > This is a little late but it may still be of some use especially to those > who are in the building process. Back on November 9, 2010 I was cleaning > the wings when I discovered a rattle in the outboard portion of the wings. > I was in the process of mounting the MZ 34 and so I didn't put the knife to > the wing fabric until March 17, 2011. > > What I found was that the long diagonal brace from the outboard rear corner > to the main spar had failed in each wing. I do not believe these to be > really critical because the load that the outer wing panel carries is quite > small. But because it is there, I repaired it. Finished the repairs on > July 13, 2011. > > I took quite a few photos, and I put them up with some description of how I > fixed the problem. It can be seen at: > > http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly164.html > > For those of you who have a FireFly under construction, it may be helpful > to > add a small aluminum angle to this brace to prevent the tube from going out > of column when you shrink the wing fabric. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:21 PM PST US From: Phil Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireFly Wing Brace Repair Hi Jack: I just examined mine. I'm about a month away from covering (cold here in TN !). Those are the longest lengths of 5/16th to begin with, at over a yard e ach. Sure enough, both of mine have a-curve. The points of attachment at the t railing edge corner and the brace 9" away are both very nearly level. But t hey both then attach to the 5" spar 2+ inches up from level inducing a smal l curve. Thanks for bringing this up. Phil H FF-11-4-076 FF-11-4-076 --- On Sun, 2/12/12, Jack B. Hart wrote: From: Jack B. Hart Subject: Kolb-List: FireFly Wing Brace Repair FireFlyers, This is a little late but it may still be of some use especially to those who are in the building process.- Back on November 9, 2010 I was cleaning the wings when I discovered a rattle in the outboard portion of the wings. - I was in the process of mounting the MZ 34 and so I didn't put the knife to the wing fabric until March 17, 2011. What I found was that the long diagonal brace from the outboard rear corner to the main spar had failed in each wing.- I do not believe these to be really critical because the load that the outer wing panel carries is quite small.- But because it is there, I repaired it.- Finished the repairs o n July 13, 2011. I took quite a few photos, and I put them up with some description of how I fixed the problem.- It can be seen at: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly164.html For those of you who have a FireFly under construction, it may be helpful t o add a small aluminum angle to this brace to prevent the tube from going out of column when you shrink the wing fabric.- Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:29:34 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: FireFly Wing Brace Repair Jack, I found similar damage on my Firestar when I removed the covering. Apparently it is an area of concern for the 5 rib Firestar, too. Rick Girard More so concern for the skimpy lateral bracing of the leading edge tube that keeps those five little rib noses in column. Those little 5/16" OD .028" wall 6061 aluminum tubes are all that carry the weight and stress of the Firestar and Ultrastar. After losing both wings back to the main spar on my Firestar, I am really sensitive about these braces. In fact, I increased the lateral bracing on my MKIII wings to 1/2" OD .032 wall 6061 to insure the rib noses will stay in column on my airplane. Don't think the fabric brace on the bow tip will help keep the rib noses in column. It is a fabric brace in tension only. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:23 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: FireFly Wing Brace Repair Sure enough, both of mine have acurve. The points of attachment at the trailing edge corner and the brace 9" away are both very nearly level. But they both then attach to the 5" spar 2+ inches up from level inducing a small curve. Thanks for bringing this up. Phil H Normal to have a curve in the 5/16 tube brace. This tube brace works in tension only. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:55 PM PST US From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireFly Wing Brace Repair Jack & gang, Yup, same thing happened to my original FireStar. Left wing at 38 hours and right wing at 115 hours. Fixed it (similar to Jack's repair but a little different) and they are still OK at 426 hours. Perhaps it's caused by vi bration or stress when folding the wings, which I do every time I fly. And I do have the optional 1/2" angles attached to the end ribs per Kolb. Bill Varnes Original Kolb FireStar Audubon NJ Do Not Archive In a message dated 2/12/2012 3:00:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jbhart@onlyinternet.net writes: What I found was that the long diagonal brace from the outboard rear corner to the main spar had failed in each wing. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:05 PM PST US From: David Kulp Subject: Kolb-List: Altitude/speed control on approach Kolbers, A short time ago I posted a question about reversing power for speed and pitch for rate of descent when in the pattern. The resulting discussion was about as vigorous as if I'd have asked if anyone ever tried flying their Kolb with the wings upside down. So I emailed a friend who flies for an airline and below is his reply. If you're interested in what he had to say start at the bottom, as usual. Jim and I talked this morning and he asserted that to do so is "counter-intuitive", which is the way I felt when I first employed the technique. Of course, when my FI and I entered the pattern we were always at 1400' ASL since Queen City Airport is 400' ASL, so there was seldom much variation from landing to landing, therefore I never had to "grab a handful of throttle." But flying the FF into different airports I've found conventional speed/altitude adjustments are sometimes required. Flying into Blairstown, NJ can be intimidating with a hill where you turn downwind to base! I'd be interested to know if anyone else has been taught this or has tried it. It's really cold here, now, but I did get some flying in about 3 weeks ago, which isn't bad for a NE winter. Hope you all are getting your required altitude fixes. POI of interest to some about Jim; he won the 2009 Iron Butt Rally, logging 12,706 miles in 11 days on his BMW motorcycle. (And I feel pretty proud of 11,014 miles in 3 weeks from Lansdale, PA to the Atigun Pass on the Haul Rd. in AK and back home on my BMW K100LT!!) If you're interested you can Google "Jim Owen Iron Butt 2009" and click on the _Rally Routing Seminar with Jim Owen_ link. Last Fall he had the misfortune of low-siding his Beemer on a rainy oil slick in Ky in a 24 hr. rally. His cycle wasn't banged up too badly, but he personally went into the guard rail legs-first and did a number on his right leg. He had it pinned and screwed together and has nothing to show for it now except the scars. Happy flying, all. Dave Kulp Bethlehem, PA FireFly 11DMK -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: Altitude/speed control on approach From: James A Owen