Kolb-List Digest Archive

Mon 02/13/12


Total Messages Posted: 6



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:51 AM - Re: Altitude/speed control on approach (Ducati SS)
     2. 08:29 AM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (Jack B. Hart)
     3. 08:37 AM - Re: Firefly wing brace repair. (william sullivan)
     4. 08:55 AM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (John Hauck)
     5. 11:42 AM - Re: Looking for MKIIIC cage; airworthy or not. (Kirkds)
     6. 08:00 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (Ron @ KFHU)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:51:38 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Altitude/speed control on approach
    From: "Ducati SS" <hiwingflyer6219@yahoo.com>
    The technique described is not really reversing anything, the airplane does not know if it is at 500 or 5000 ft. If you are flying along in a Cessna trimmed for hands off at 2000 rpm and 90mph and increase rpm to 2400 you will not go any faster, you will climb at 90mph. If you pull the power to idle ( again without touching the yoke ) you will descend at 90mph.With the same 2,000 rpm 90mph trim you can pull back on the yoke and climb but you will lose airspeed. The problem with using pitch to control alt. on final is the constant change in airspeed, not so good when you are all ready close to stall speed. Trimming for approach speed and using power to control decent keeps the airspeed stable. Of course bumpy air or changes in lift/drag ( such as lowering flaps) may very well require pitch changes. Hard to prove in a Firefly with no pitch trim and the resulting unintentional pitch changes. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366182#366182


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:29:07 AM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: FireFly Wing Brace Repair
    At 02:11 PM 2/12/12 -0600, you wrote: > >Jack H/Kolbers: > >Believe that is a fabric brace that does its job in tension. As the fabric >is shrunk it prevents the outboard aft corner of the rear wing spar in line >and not pushed backwards. > John, I am confused. If shrinking the fabric tries to pull the rear spar forward toward the wing leading edge, anything that prevents this is in compression. It would seem logical that if the shrunk fabric is pulling the rear spar forward and inward from the wing end bow. To prevent this from happening something has to push back at the corner to prevent this from happening. What am I missing here? Your concept is not supported by what I found. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:37:49 AM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Firefly wing brace repair.
    - On my original Firestar, the original wings had been damaged in a storm rollover.- When I opened them up, there was no sign of damage in that ar ea.- Where the braces crossed, the builder had placed a small block of st yrofoam and cross wired it in place.- Whoever built it, the construction seemed to be very meticulous. ------------------------- ----------------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ----------------------- Winds or Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ----------------------- FS 44 7


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:55:14 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: FireFly Wing Brace Repair
    I am confused. If shrinking the fabric tries to pull the rear spar forward toward the wing leading edge, anything that prevents this is in compression. It would seem logical that if the shrunk fabric is pulling the rear spar forward and inward from the wing end bow. To prevent this from happening something has to push back at the corner to prevent this from happening. What am I missing here? Your concept is not supported by what I found. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN Perhaps Dennis Souder can explain this much better than I can. He or Homer Kolb explained it to me. I think the fabric is actually trying to squeeze the bow tip area of the wing into an oblong shape since the sides of the bow tip area are not equidistant. It is the rounded curve of the bow tip that encourages the aft outboard corner of the wing to be push backwards as fabric is shrunk. If there was a strong compression brace installed at a 45 degree angle from the center of the bow tip curve back to the main spar, this would help prevent the problem. I have those 45 degree bow tip braces installed on my MKIII. The problem may not be as pronounced with the small curve of the FF and SS bow tip as it is with the US, FS, MKIII, and Kolbra, which uses a much larger curve. This very small 5/16" tube brace was never intended for compression. If it was, it would have been a much larger, more substantial brace. This little 5/6" brace may also act as a drag brace, since there is no other bracing in the bow tip to prevent the wind stream from pushing aft on it. Figuring out how to sequentially shrink the bow tip fabric to reduce this tendency may help. My primary concern when I shrink wing fabric is to get that fabric as tight as I can without distorting the wing, not necessarily what is happening out on the bow tip. I build for performance. Sorry if this explanation doesn't do the job. This is day 5 of the dreaded virus. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. ;-) Maybe someone else that understands what is happening can explain the situation better than I can. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:42:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Looking for MKIIIC cage; airworthy or not.
    From: "Kirkds" <kirk.smith@frontier.com>
    Who called me on the Mark 3 kit I'm selling? -------- Kirk Smith Columbiaville, MI Firestar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366226#366226


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:00:20 PM PST US
    From: "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair
    Jack this is an excellent post, and a good repair. Appreciate it. Ron Mason KFHU M3X ============================ ---- "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net> wrote: ============ FireFlyers, This is a little late but it may still be of some use especially to those who are in the building process. Back on November 9, 2010 I was cleaning the wings when I discovered a rattle in the outboard portion of the wings. I was in the process of mounting the MZ 34 and so I didn't put the knife to the wing fabric until March 17, 2011. What I found was that the long diagonal brace from the outboard rear corner to the main spar had failed in each wing. I do not believe these to be really critical because the load that the outer wing panel carries is quite small. But because it is there, I repaired it. Finished the repairs on July 13, 2011. I took quite a few photos, and I put them up with some description of how I fixed the problem. It can be seen at: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly164.html For those of you who have a FireFly under construction, it may be helpful to add a small aluminum angle to this brace to prevent the tube from going out of column when you shrink the wing fabric. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   kolb-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list
  • Browse Kolb-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --