---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/19/12: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:18 AM - Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? (Pat Ladd) 2. 05:27 AM - Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? (frank goodnight) 3. 06:38 AM - Re: Kolb quit revealed (Pat Ladd) 4. 06:47 AM - Re: Altitude/speed control on approach (gotime242) 5. 07:14 AM - belt reduction (Ducati SS) 6. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: Altitude/speed control on approach (b young) 7. 07:28 AM - Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? (b young) 8. 07:38 AM - Re: Tillotson Carburetor Icing (Jack B. Hart) 9. 07:41 AM - attatude at mach numbers (b young) 10. 07:50 AM - Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? (Ducati SS) 11. 07:50 AM - Re: Kolb quit revealed (vic) 12. 07:56 AM - Re: Altitude/speed control on approach (gotime242) 13. 07:59 AM - Re: belt reduction (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 14. 08:02 AM - Re: attatude at mach numbers (gotime242) 15. 08:03 AM - Re: Tillotson Carburetor Icing (John Hauck) 16. 08:07 AM - Re: attatude at mach numbers (John Hauck) 17. 08:08 AM - Re: belt reduction (Herb Gayheart) 18. 08:35 AM - Re: belt reduction (Ducati SS) 19. 09:04 AM - Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? (tkben002) 20. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: belt reduction (Herb Gayheart) 21. 09:24 AM - Re: Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? (John Hauck) 22. 10:00 AM - Re: belt reduction (Ducati SS) 23. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? (b young) 24. 10:52 AM - Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? (Ducati SS) 25. 11:25 AM - Re: Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? (David Kulp) 26. 11:28 AM - Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? (Rick Neilsen) 27. 02:04 PM - Re: belt reduction (DAquaNut@aol.com) 28. 02:35 PM - Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? (tkben002) 29. 02:56 PM - Re: belt reduction (Dana Hague) 30. 05:22 PM - Re: belt reduction (Ducati SS) 31. 09:46 PM - Re: Re: frunt mounted radiator (Richard Girard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:24 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Making touchdown with high thrustline? Larry, Dont worry about it. With the small adjustment you should be making on the approach you will not notice the difference in the thrustline. You will just do whatever is required without thinking about it. Maintain speed/attitude with the stick Adjust glide path with the throttle. Too high? Close the throttle a touch. Too low? Open up a shade. If you try to maintain your glide path with the stick you will be in trouble in any plane. If you are too low and lift the nose to regain your glide path you will lose speed and eventually stall. If you are too high and dive to regain your glide path you will add speed and when you flare you will float on forever. Just watch the inertia which is very different to the Champ. Close the throttle on the Kolb and compared to the Champ she will stop in midair. Good luck Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:13 AM PST US From: frank goodnight Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Making touchdown with high thrustline? Great answer Pat. Frank Goodnight Firestar 2 Arkansas ________________________________ From: Pat Ladd Sent: Sun, February 19, 2012 7:17:57 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Making touchdown with high thrustline? Larry, Dont worry about it. With the small adjustment you should be making on the approach you will not notice the difference in the thrustline. You will just do whatever is required without thinking about it. Maintain speed/attitude with the stick Adjust glide path with the throttle. Too high? Close the throttle a touch. Too low? Open up a shade. If you try to maintain your glide path with the stick you will be in trouble in any plane. If you are too low and lift the nose to regain your glide path you will lose speed and eventually stall. If you are too high and dive to regain your glide path you will add speed and when you flare you will float on forever. Just watch the inertia which is very different to the Champ. Close the throttle on the Kolb and compared to the Champ she will stop in midair. Good luck Pat ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:25 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb quit revealed With my passenger we quit flying at 40. When I say quit I mean stalled. Surprised the crap out of both of us.>> You were surprised that you stalled at a higher speed when you had a passenger/higher weight? What did you expect? The stall occurs when the wing no longer produces enough lift to support the weight. If you add weight or reduce speed you WILL STALL:L. Nothing surprising about it. That is the basic physics behind flying. If you are too heavy or too slow the plane (any plane) will not fly. Planes certainly differ in their stalling characteristics and the way in which the stall is approached. Some planes will drop a wing. some don`t. Some planes, even if the stall is approached cautiously, will just stop flying and pitch nose down suddenly. The Kolb under the same condition will just drop her nose a shade and start flying again. Even with the stick held back she will just bob gently downwards. Of course if you just yank the stick back to the stops at normal flying speed you will get a very different response.because the increase in `g` will have produced an `apparent` increase in weight and the stall speed will increase in response. A laminar flow wing, as in a P51 will stall more viciously than the usually benign wing design to which we are accustomed. I only flew the P 51 once and there was a good stall warning vibration but 10,000 feet was the MINIMUM height for spins so you can draw your own conclusions. Pat ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:44 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Altitude/speed control on approach From: "gotime242" John Hauck wrote: > Try low and slow. Maybe we will understand. > > BTW: Who are you? > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama I have, and yes...that's a different story. I am just someone that use to have a kolb and still browse the forum. The kolb was some of the most fun flying I have done, i have a citabria now. Have fun / fly safe. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366593#366593 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:05 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: belt reduction From: "Ducati SS" I am considering removing the Rotax from my Firefly and installing a Kawasaki. Anyone have any experience with or know of anyone using the micro v belt reduction as sold by J Bird? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366594#366594 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:08 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Altitude/speed control on approach If you are level in cruise and ATC asks you to maintain Mach .80 or greater....are you telling me your going to pitch down to do that? yes and no... if you are at mach .6 in level flight,,, and atc ask you to go .8 and maintain altitude. you will have to increase power, and the extra speed will cause you to develop more lift, so you will have to lower the nose untill the extra lift generated by the extra speed is canceled out, then you can maintain altitude. if you were at mach 2.6 and atc asked you to go to mach .8 you would have to reduce power, and increase angle of attack to maintain equal amounts of lift. like wise if you are in a kolb at 50 mph.. you will have to have aprox. 11 deg, +- in your main wings inorder to stay straight and level. at that configuration the lift provided by the aircraft wings will equal the weight of the plane. if you increase to 70 mph, you will only need aprox 8 deg +- to develop the same lift, so yes you you will have to drop the nose, lower the angle of attack in the wings, reduce back pressure on the stick, (depending on trim)... if you dont change the attitude, and change speed from 50 to 70. you will develope much more lift,, and you will be in a climb. boyd ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:08 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Making touchdown with high thrustline? So if I am in my Kolbra flying in on approach with, or without power and I see that I am going to be short of my touchdown point..what would I do? Thanks, Nick Cassara >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly the same thing. depending on how you are trimed, you may need to add a bit of back pressure to over come the high thrust line, depending on how much power you add. boyd ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:37 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Tillotson Carburetor Icing At 08:33 AM 2/17/12 -0600, you wrote: > > >......................> >Bulbs may last a little longer mounted on the carb because of the rubber >carb boot. >......................... > John, The Tillotson carburetor is designed to be direct flange mounted. No boot is necessary. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:38 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Kolb-List: attatude at mach numbers maybe i should have said, if you reference lift, and speed and airfoil shape, at those speeds the same as you do in the speeds we see in kolb s... what i said is true,,,, but,,, i am not sure,,, there may be some other aspects in aerodynamics i dont understand in the high mach numbers. boyd ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:56 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? From: "Ducati SS" Try thinking about it like this. If you have altitude you can trade it for airspeed. If you have airspeed you can trade it for altitude. ( we will assume no changes to power) So if you are coming down final at VNE you could pitch up and trade off some airspeed. But if you are approaching a short field just above stall speed you have no energy to trade for altitude, adding power at the same trim will maintain trimmed airspeed an cause the airplane to climb. The only Kolb I have experience with is the firefly, and I am still learning, but so far the high thrust line pitch is minor and easy to deal with. Coming from GA the lack of inertia is the bigger issue. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366600#366600 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:58 AM PST US From: "vic" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb quit revealed Pat Stall tests with 2 pass indicated 30. 2 mph higher than with 1 pass. It does not stall at 40 at altitude. (3000rpm) ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Ladd To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:37 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb quit revealed With my passenger we quit flying at 40. When I say quit I mean stalled. Surprised the crap out of both of us.>> You were surprised that you stalled at a higher speed when you had a passenger/higher weight? What did you expect? The stall occurs when the wing no longer produces enough lift to support the weight. If you add weight or reduce speed you WILL STALL:L. Nothing surprising about it. That is the basic physics behind flying. If you are too heavy or too slow the plane (any plane) will not fly. Planes certainly differ in their stalling characteristics and the way in which the stall is approached. Some planes will drop a wing. some don`t. Some planes, even if the stall is approached cautiously, will just stop flying and pitch nose down suddenly. The Kolb under the same condition will just drop her nose a shade and start flying again. Even with the stick held back she will just bob gently downwards. Of course if you just yank the stick back to the stops at normal flying speed you will get a very different response.because the increase in `g` will have produced an `apparent` increase in weight and the stall speed will increase in response. A laminar flow wing, as in a P51 will stall more viciously than the usually benign wing design to which we are accustomed. I only flew the P 51 once and there was a good stall warning vibration but 10,000 feet was the MINIMUM height for spins so you can draw your own conclusions. Pat ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:23 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Altitude/speed control on approach From: "gotime242" byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c wrote: > If you are level in cruise and ATC asks you to maintain Mach .80 or greater....are you telling me your going to pitch down to do that? > > > yes and no... > if you are at mach .6 in level flight,,, and atc ask you to go .8 and maintain altitude. you will have to increase power, and the extra speed will cause you to develop more lift, so you will have to lower the nose untill the extra lift generated by the extra speed is canceled out, then you can maintain altitude. > if you were at mach 2.6 and atc asked you to go to mach .8 you would have to reduce power, and increase angle of attack to maintain equal amounts of lift. > > like wise if you are in a kolb at 50 mph.. you will have to have aprox. 11 deg, +- in your main wings inorder to stay straight and level. at that configuration the lift provided by the aircraft wings will equal the weight of the plane. if you increase to 70 mph, you will only need aprox 8 deg +- to develop the same lift, so yes you you will have to drop the nose, lower the angle of attack in the wings, reduce back pressure on the stick, (depending on trim)... if you dont change the attitude, and change speed from 50 to 70. you will develope much more lift,, and you will be in a climb. > > boyd Please re-read above. "Power changes = attitude changes....the question is what happens first or what your primary tool for those changes are based off of what type of flying you are doing. ...some are flown by power settings....adjust attitude accordingly." Attitude is a byproduct of power settings when doing that type of flying. All im saying is that the phrase "Pitch for airspeed, power for altitude" does not fit in some scenarios. It would be more like "Power for airspeed resulting in an alternate pitch setting at a specific altitude to maintain the same total lift with the resulting airspeed." Lol We are all talking about the same thing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366602#366602 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: belt reduction From: Ellery Batchelder Jr I am dam sure I wouldn't replace a Rotax with Kawasaki unless you would lik e to get more glider time Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Ducati SS Sent: Sun, Feb 19, 2012 10:19 am Subject: Kolb-List: belt reduction I am considering removing the Rotax from my Firefly and installing a Kawasa ki. nyone have any experience with or know of anyone using the micro v belt eduction as sold by J Bird? ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366594#366594 -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:04 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: attatude at mach numbers From: "gotime242" byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c wrote: > maybe i should have said, if you reference lift, and speed and airfoil shape, at those speeds the same as you do in the speeds we see in kolb s... what i said is true,,,, but,,, i am not sure,,, there may be some other aspects in aerodynamics i dont understand in the high mach numbers. > > boyd No, you were correct. Its all a wing going through the air, and something (sometimes) creating thrust to push said wing through it with resulting aerodynamic events. That other thread got way off track...we are all talking about the same thing but it seems to of just got scrambled. While the phrase "Pitch for airspeed, power for altitude" IS correct in every airplane with a wing, that's not necessarily the approach taken in some type of flying in terms of how you control those factors. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366604#366604 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:54 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Tillotson Carburetor Icing The Tillotson carburetor is designed to be direct flange mounted. No boot is necessary. Jack B. Hart FF004 Morning Jack H/Gang: In that case bulb life will probably be drastically shorted, unless the system is shock mounted. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:21 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: attatude at mach numbers but,,, i am not sure,,, there may be some other aspects in aerodynamics i dont understand in the high mach numbers. boyd Good Morning Boyd Y/Kolbers: Looked for mach numbers on my ASI and cannot find them. Have no experience with high speed. All my aviation experience has been low and slow. The only fixed wing aircraft I could out run with an AH-G1 Cobra was an O-1, and then I had to be going downhill. ;-) john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:42 AM PST US From: Herb Gayheart Subject: Re: Kolb-List: belt reduction Can someone tell me when the last Kawasaki 440's and other members of that engine family were last made? My research says sometime in the 1980's? Herb At 09:58 AM 2/19/2012, you wrote: >I am dam sure I wouldn't replace a Rotax with Kawasaki unless you >would like to get more glider time > > >Ellery Batchelder Jr. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ducati SS >To: kolb-list >Sent: Sun, Feb 19, 2012 10:19 am >Subject: Kolb-List: belt reduction > > ><hiwingflyer6219@yahoo.com> > >I am considering removing the Rotax from my Firefly and installing a >Kawasaki. >Anyone have any experience with or know of anyone using the micro v belt >reduction as sold by J Bird? > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366594#366594 > > >get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >p://forums.matronics.com >blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:11 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: belt reduction From: "Ducati SS" I spent many years as a professional motorcycle / snowmobile mechanic. I have worked on and rebuilt prior and current generation rotax engines as well as the TA 440. The TA was a good engine with the exception of center seal failure. The fix was to split the cases and install a labrinth seal. The seal problem on newer engines is supposed to be fixed, however I will split the cases and inspect be for running. The claim is that these engines are still in production for fixed equipment such as pumps. I have some question with the fan housing and the intake manifold, but the cases definitely look new. Again I will know more after disassembly. I almost bought the MZ, and I may still at a future date but I have some concerns and have received no good answers. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366611#366611 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:21 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? From: "tkben002" Sorry, dont know how to make the quotes in blue like the others. "If you try to maintain your glide path with the stick you will be in trouble in any plane." I disagree here. "exactly the same thing. depending on how you are trimed," My kolbra trim is basically useless, maybe you other kolb guys have something better. "but so far the high thrust line pitch is minor and easy to deal with. Coming from GA the lack of inertia is the bigger issue." I agree here. CFI's have argued for as long as I know (not that long) about which is the proper method to teach students to fly. Ie. pitch for point, power for airspeed, or pitch for airspeed, power for point. The thing is, is that neither are incorrect. They are just different ways/tools/skills of acheiving the same result. If I were teaching a new student to fly my Kolb, I would teach them pitch for point and power for airspeed. They need to learn what the elevator was designed for (pitch control). Once they learned how to acheive consistant results then you can teach all the other methods/tricks to produce the desired outcome. Take it for what it is worth, which is my opinion. Travis Bennett Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366614#366614 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:08 AM PST US From: Herb Gayheart Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: belt reduction I have a two or three year old "new" 440 crank from J Bird....so called....Should it have the new style seal? and can you tell me when the "non Pump" utility engines, snowmobile were last built? Good guess would be ok...Herb At 10:34 AM 2/19/2012, you wrote: > >I spent many years as a professional motorcycle / snowmobile >mechanic. I have worked on and rebuilt prior and current generation >rotax engines as well as the TA 440. The TA was a good engine with >the exception of center seal failure. The fix was to split the cases >and install a labrinth seal. The seal problem on newer engines is >supposed to be fixed, however I will split the cases and inspect be >for running. The claim is that these engines are still in production >for fixed equipment such as pumps. I have some question with the fan >housing and the intake manifold, but the cases definitely look new. >Again I will know more after disassembly. I almost bought the MZ, >and I may still at a future date but I have some concerns and have >received no good answers. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366611#366611 > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:03 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? If I were teaching a new student to fly my Kolb, I would teach them pitch for point and power for airspeed. They need to learn what the elevator was designed for (pitch control). Once they learned how to acheive consistant results then you can teach all the other methods/tricks to produce the desired outcome. Travis Bennett Travis B/Kolbers: I agree. Don't really know how I land my Kolb, but been able to return to earth consistently over the years. Doesn't really make a lot of difference one way or the other. Kolbs are fun airplanes and designed to enjoy. They respond well to almost any pilot whether experienced or novice. Guaranteed to put a smile on your face. Kolbs like to be handled. They don't fly by themselves. They must be constantly flown. There are a few that have increased dihedral to make the Kolb roll stable and a rudder airplane. I find the Kolb is an aileron airplane, built and rigged per plans. They don't fly well without aileron control, or should I say they won't fly long without aileron input. Homer tried to squeeze all the performance out of his wing; high lift, good slow flight characteristics, gentle stall. The only reason he put any dihedral in the wing was because the wings looked like they were drooping when sitting on the ground. He added dihedral for aesthetic reasons only, and then minimal. However, when he rebuilt the 1985 Oshkosh Grand Champion Ultralight, the Firestar, he added quite a bit of dihedral to see what the results would be. I was honored to fly this airplane locally around the Kolb Farm. Was having so much fun I didn't even think of the increased dihedral. I was more impressed flying an original Firestar with a 503. It was a sky rocket. BTW: When Homer decided to put the 503 on the Firestar he also built 7 rib wings for it. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:44 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: belt reduction From: "Ducati SS" Arctic cat used used mostly kawasaki engines until the change to the Spirit. Thats going back but I believe it was late seventies or very early eighties. I left the Suzuki, Arctic, Ski-Doo dealership in 84 and we had Spirit engines by then. Kawasaki snowmobiles of the eighties used the 440 but it may have been only th 440b. I have not opened up my engine yet. If the update is a labyrinth seal that will be easy to see, but if it is an improved conventional seal part numbers will be needed. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366618#366618 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:11 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? Ie. pitch for point, power for airspeed, or pitch for airspeed, power for point. The thing is, is that neither are incorrect. They are just different ways/tools/skills of acheiving the same result. i guess if you look at the statement above it makes sense,,,,,,, until you loose an engine,,, then what do you have left... if you pitch down to a point too far away, you are going to stall and not make it,,,, if you pitch to a point too close, the speed will build up. and you will over shoot the landing point unless you can find a way to increase drag and control the speed. Once you become a glider there are ways to waste altitude and maintain your speed,,, but you cant waste speed to conserve altitude. ie in a glider, if you are going to come up short,,, it is best to keep the speed, up. to make sure you have the best chance to flair, and make the contact with the ground as gentle as possible. guess before i get flamed here,,, you can give up speed to conserve altitude only till you reach the speed that gives the maximum glide distance,,,,, from that point giving up anymore speed will destroy altitude. till you stall and give it up all at once. so if you are thinking pitch for speed, power for point,,,, in an emergency,,, you dont have to rethink what is going on, or what to do. boyd y ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:19 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? From: "Ducati SS" If the engine quits and you trim pitch for best glide speed, then you will get maximum distance for your altitude. No need to bounce airspeed up and down.Then if you find a field close by you can circle down or otherwise bleed energy.If I am dead stick I would rather let trim take care of speed wile I look for a suitable landing area. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366624#366624 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:55 AM PST US From: David Kulp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? Kolbers, Great discussion, and lots to be learned from so many opinions from so many people with so many hours of flight in so many types of aircraft. If you recall, when I first posted the question I offered a video taken from inside a jet doing approach and touchdown on an aircraft carrier landing. It is very demonstrative of the control necessary to do a spot landing of a fighter jet like a STOL and is really interesting to "ride" in with the pilot. As I said originally, the file is wmv, which is Windows Media Player, and the list doesn't allow that file, so I can't post it. I have checked it with 3 programs and it's clean, so if there are any more of you who would like to see it, contact me off list and I'll shoot it your way. Dave Kulp Bethlehem, PA FireFly 11DMK On 2/19/2012 1:14 PM, b young wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" > > Ie. pitch for point, power for airspeed, or pitch for airspeed, power for point. The thing is, is that neither are incorrect. They are just different ways/tools/skills of acheiving the same result. > > i guess if you look at the statement above it makes sense,,,,,,, until you loose an engine,,, then what do you have left... if you pitch down to a point too far away, you are going to stall and not make it,,,, if you pitch to a point too close, the speed will build up. and you will over shoot the landing point unless you can find a way to increase drag and control the speed. Once you become a glider there are ways to waste altitude and maintain your speed,,, but you cant waste speed to conserve altitude. ie in a glider, if you are going to come up short,,, it is best to keep the speed, up. to make sure you have the best chance to flair, and make the contact with the ground as gentle as possible. guess before i get flamed here,,, you can give up speed to conserve altitude only till you reach the speed that gives the maximum glide distance,,,,, from that point giving up anymore speed will destroy altitude. till you stall and give it up all at once. > > so if you are thinking pitch for speed, power for point,,,, in an emergency,,, you dont have to rethink what is going on, or what to do. > > boyd y > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Making touchdown with high thrustline? From: Rick Neilsen This is all good but I don't hear anything about Kolb Flaps. When the engine quits they are a valuable tool to use for landing where you want to touch down. I practice lowering the flaps while lowering the nose to maintain air speed then raising the flaps and raising the nose. Do this a few times on approach and watch how much the the touch down point will change. If your model Kolb doesn't have them oh well, you are missing a great tool. I normally land with one notch of flaps and some power. When I was landing at my short one way strip I could always cut power and add flaps if I misjudged my approach. If I was landing with no power and full flaps I would have fewer options. Another point is that landing with power and one notch of flaps feels just like landing with no power and no flaps. I cut power and added flaps a few times when I got surprised by a strong wind pushing me down wind into my one way strip. The FAA doesn't like this but it works well in a Kolb. If you loose power use the flaps to fine tune your approach then raise them for landing. You will have a much easier round out (flare) at a time when you may need easy. Another point is that you can get the tail down first if need be to stay up right in unprepared surfaces. With flaps down it is much more difficult to get the tail down first. I used this technique to land and stay upright in a bean field a few years ago. The beans grabbed the tail wheel kind of like the hook grabbing a wire on a aircraft carrier. As always worth what you paid for it. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 10:27 AM, b young wrote: > ** > > ** ** > > So if I am in my Kolbra flying in on approach with, or without power and I > see that I am going to be short of my touchdown point=85.what would I do? ** > ** > > Thanks,** ** > > Nick Cassara > > **>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>** > > **exactly the same thing. depending on how you are trimed, you may > need to add a bit of back pressure to over come the high thrust line, > depending on how much power you add.** > > **** > > **boyd ** > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:23 PM PST US From: DAquaNut@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: belt reduction I bought a 440 w/ belt reduction from J bird. I broke in the rebuilt engine but it had a rattle at around 3200 rpm . Jim swapped it out for a " new" 440". for 500.00 more. I had a rattle at lower RPMS, but I still had reservations even though Jim said it was normal. The belt drive seemed to work smoothly but I still had some reservations. I never installed it and it is sitting in my garage . Im still not convinced it was a NEW engine Ca nt say for certain . In a message dated 2/19/2012 9:19:54 A.M. Central Standard Time, hiwingflyer6219@yahoo.com writes: I am considering removing the Rotax from my Firefly and installing a Kawasaki. Anyone have any experience with or know of anyone using the micro v belt reduction as sold by J Bird? I have since installed a new Rotax 447 and need to finish breaking it in. Ed Diebel ( FF 62) ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Making touchdown with high thrustline? From: "tkben002" "so if you are thinking pitch for speed, power for point,,,, in an emergency,,, you dont have to rethink what is going on, or what to do. " ....................either of the 2 methodologies only work perfectly when you have not lost one of your control inputs. ie...if you lose an engine you cannot power for point as you have no power, same as if you lose your elevator control you cannot pitch for point. You should always practice worst case scenarios so you will be prepared for them when they come. In the bigger scheme of things Kolb related....you are rarely only going to make changes to either pitch or power alone. Travis Bennett Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366644#366644 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:24 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: belt reduction At 10:13 AM 2/19/2012, Ducati SS wrote: > >I am considering removing the Rotax from my Firefly and installing a >Kawasaki. Anyone have any experience with or know of anyone using the >micro v belt reduction as sold by J Bird? Why the change? -Dana -- The American people get the government they deserve, and they get it good and hard. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:07 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: belt reduction From: "Ducati SS" Trying to lighten it enough to install electric start. All up weight of the TA is 6.5 lbs. lighter than the Rotax. Also exchanging some airframe parts for titanium and carbon fiber, lighter instruments and lighter prop. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366656#366656 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: frunt mounted radiator From: Richard Girard Charlie, It's about 95.5 sq.in. (11 X 8.7) and the core is an inch thick. It's about 14 inches wide including the tanks. Rick On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Charlie England wrote: > Hi Rick, > > Next time you're at the plane, would you mind getting some measurements? > I'd like to know the face area & thickness of the core itself, and also the > overall dimensions including the tanks (not including fittings, hoses, etc). > > Thanks, > > Charlie > > > On 02/17/2012 01:06 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > > Richard, I have put the Honda Magna radiator on two Kolb Mk III's now. I > have a 1/2 mile taxi when the wind is from the south and have never had an > overheat situation with either airplane even in last summer's 115+ > temperatures. If it was a problem, I think I'd have seen it by now. The > Mark III has enough issue with in flow to the prop without putting a > radiator right in front. The Magna radiator also has provision for a > cooling fan if it was required, but so far there has been no need. > I have had overheat issues with the stock Rotax radiators mounted in front > of the engine and at the gearbox. That was what started me on the trail to > a single radiator. That, and the expense. > > Rick Girard > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Richard Pike wrote: > >> >> Why do you want one at that end? I tried that the first year I had my >> MKIII, and noticed two things: if you were unable to take off as soon as >> you wanted, the engine would overheat, and it also seemed to hurt the rate >> of climb. I like having the radiator just ahead of the prop so that the >> temps stay normal while taxiing. >> >> I do currently have a small radiator just in front of the air >> filter/silencer box to augment the main radiator that is behind and under >> the wing/in front of the prop, as the original was not quite enough in July >> & August. I can post pictures if you are interested. >> >> -------- >> Richard Pike >> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >> richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org >> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >> Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things >> not seen. >> Hebrews 11:1 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366484#366484 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be > unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > > * > > * > > > * > > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.