---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/20/12: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:38 AM - VGs on vertical stabilizer (mburdge39) 2. 04:52 AM - Re: VGs on vertical stabilizer (Michael Welch) 3. 05:29 AM - Re: VGs on vertical stabilizer (mburdge39) 4. 07:49 AM - Re: VGs on vertical stabilizer (Richard Pike) 5. 08:26 AM - Mark II (crashed) for sale?? (FIRESTARII) 6. 08:58 AM - Re: VGs on vertical stabilizer (b young) 7. 10:32 AM - Re: VGs on vertical stabilizer (Pat Ladd) 8. 11:57 AM - Re: VGs on vertical stabilizer (mburdge39) 9. 02:28 PM - Re: VGs on vertical stabilizer (Beauford) 10. 04:42 PM - Re: VGs on vertical stabilizer (Jack B. Hart) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:40 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: VGs on vertical stabilizer From: "mburdge39" Hi all! I am hoping someone can help me with my placement of VGs on my vertical stabilizer. The directions on my Airwave vortex generators state "5 degrees from level flight". Would someone be able to give me the angle, in relation to the rudder, as my Firefly sits on the ground? Installing on the wing & horizontal stabilizer went smoothly and don't want to screw this up. Thanks! -------- Mike Firefly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368947#368947 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/vertical_stab_195_798.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:37 AM PST US From: Michael Welch Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VGs on vertical stabilizer Mike, Wouldn't "level" flight be referenced from your horizontal stabilizer. Raise you hor. stab. up to level position, and that is "level flight". No? Mike Welch On Mar 20, 2012, at 6:38 AM, mburdge39 wrote: > > Hi all! I am hoping someone can help me with my placement of VGs on my vertical stabilizer. The directions on my Airwave vortex generators state "5 degrees from level flight". Would someone be able to give me the angle, in relation to the rudder, as my Firefly sits on the ground? Installing on the wing & horizontal stabilizer went smoothly and don't want to screw this up. > Thanks! > > -------- > Mike > Firefly > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368947#368947 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/vertical_stab_195_798.jpg > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:03 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VGs on vertical stabilizer From: "mburdge39" I guess I have over-complicated things here. With the boom tube angled up during level flight it appeared to me that the horizontal stabilizer was also at an angle. Thanks! -------- Mike Firefly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368952#368952 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:16 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VGs on vertical stabilizer From: "Richard Pike" I suspect that gap sealing the vertical stab to the rudder would also help. But you've probably already done that. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368964#368964 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:12 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Mark II (crashed) for sale?? From: "FIRESTARII" Hey everybody! My post is regarding an older MKII that was put down in a bean field and is now for sale. She is pretty rough but has potential if you take ten steps back and squint your eyes [Laughing] The boom tube is bent just aft of the cage, the left main gear was whipped out and there are some very slightly bent tubes where the boom attaches to the cage. Other than that the wings and tail are undamaged. The engine is an older 503 SCSI with the points style ignition and a 2 blade Tenn wood prop. Needless to say the airplane is in tough shape and has been sitting in a barn in Ohio. My question is what every body thinks the airplane is worth, how many dollars it would take to get her airworthy again and if its even worth the effort? The project may not be for me but if any one else is interested its posted on the Akron, Ohio Craig's list for only 3K. It would obviously need re-powered, re-covered and gone over with a fine tooth comb. It is however N-Number and has AWC. Just some thing to talk about over coffee this weekend! Fly often and fly safe :D -------- Low and Slow FireStar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368970#368970 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:19 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VGs on vertical stabilizer Hi all! I am hoping someone can help me with my placement of VGs on my vertical stabilizer. Mike Firefly First of all,,, do you lack rudder authority? if no,, why vg's there? which side of the rudder or both sides? in straight and level flight, do you need to hold right or left rudder to center the ball? maybe you only need one side. for W&B it says to have your wing at some angle of attack,,,, with the wing at that angle, is the horizontal stabilizer level? if so you could measure from there. OR you could go for a flight and take a level and some shims with you, while in level flight place the level on the floor along the center line of the plane. and see what size of shim is needed to show level, then calculate from there. OR, an electronic level on the floor, then push the hold lock button and read the angle. duplicate that on the ground, then measure. OR better yet, tuft the tail and have someone take a picture with you in the air. that way you would be 5 deg from the air flow, not withstanding where level is. the wind from the prop may cause some swirling of the air past the vertical stabilizer, which would be different if the engine quit, or at an idle on approach. as for me, I don't lack for rudder authority. I have considered vg's,,,, on the wing and bottom of the horizontals... but never the vertical. the empennage on the kolbs have a long moment arm and accelerated air from the prop, it should not run out of authority. food for thought boyd young mkiii ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:13 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VGs on vertical stabilizer placement of VGs on my vertical stabilizer>> You need extra lift on your VERTICAL stab.? You fly on your side a lot do you? Pat ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:57:43 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VGs on vertical stabilizer From: "mburdge39" Haha! I really just didn't want to waste half a box of VGs! I will just keep them with my other "extras". I will stick with just the horizontal stabilizer & wing. -------- Mike Firefly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368996#368996 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:52 PM PST US From: "Beauford " Subject: RE: Kolb-List: VGs on vertical stabilizer Brother Mike: I put 'em on both sides of my Fly's vertical stab... For two reasons: 1. Had extra VG's and they were paid for. 2. They looked cool and drew lots of questions from gullible onlookers. They have been on there for about five years... Probably have some slight effect on rudder authority, but likely not as much as Brother Pike's suggestion to seal the gap would have. Not to put too fine a point on it, but suspect the agony over the VG mounting angle may not have a high payoff fer ye... Kinda like using a micrometer on a buttermilk biscuit... Worth what ye paid fer it... Do Not Archive beauford FF-076 Brandon, FL -----Original Message----- Hi all! I am hoping someone can help me with my placement of VGs on my vertical stabilizer. The directions on my Airwave vortex generators state "5 degrees from level flight". Would someone be able to give me the angle, in relation to the rudder, as my Firefly sits on the ground? Installing on the wing & horizontal stabilizer went smoothly and don't want to screw this up. Thanks! -------- Mike Firefly ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:25 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VGs on vertical stabilizer At 09:55 AM 3/20/12 -0600, you wrote: > >Hi all! I am hoping someone can help me with my placement of VGs on my vertical stabilizer. >Mike >Firefly > > >First of all,,, do you lack rudder authority? if no,, why vg's there? Additional rudder authority lets one hold greater forward and side slips. This can be helpful in spilling altitude and enables landing in higher cross winds. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.