---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/21/12: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:16 AM - Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircraft (Dennis Thate) 2. 08:01 AM - Re: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircraft (Richard Pike) 3. 08:27 AM - Re: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircraft (Dennis Thate) 4. 08:51 AM - Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight (Lanny Fetterman) 5. 09:24 AM - Re: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight (Michael Welch) 6. 10:28 AM - Re: Re: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircraft (Dana Hague) 7. 04:46 PM - Sun 'n Fun event in Lakeland, Florida! (Dennis Thate) 8. 08:29 PM - Re: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircraft (Richard Pike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:41 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircraft From: "Dennis Thate" http://flake.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=276424 Good News ! -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369041#369041 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:08 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircraft From: "Richard Pike" Interesting. The FAA refers to ultralights as vehicles and uses that as it's justification for not providing ATC services to ultralights - because they are legally not aircraft. So now a different branch of the feds are going to refer to them as aircraft after all. Be interesting to see how this plays out, or maybe the feds will simply choose to ignore this particular aspect of their cognitive dissonance. Unfortunately, anybody flying near the border will probably learn first hand that while the feds will turn a blind eye to illegals coming into the country, drugs are a whole nuther ball game. Also known as follow the money... -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369058#369058 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:21 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircraft From: "Dennis Thate" Good point ! I guess they figure they can 'double standard' when it comes to 'THE WAR ON DRUGS'. BTW. .... I haven't heard anyone use Cognitive Dissonance since my Freshman College Social Psychology Class. [Wink] -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369060#369060 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:14 AM PST US From: Lanny Fetterman Subject: Kolb-List: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight I can just picture two F-18`s escorting a Quicksilver MX. Can you say S-turns? Lanny N598LF Do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight From: Michael Welch On Mar 21, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Lanny Fetterman wrote: > > I can just picture two F-18`s escorting a Quicksilver MX. Can you say S-turns? Lanny N598LF Do not archive > Lanny, I can picture those F-18 pilots screaming past them, showing one finger for english, or two fingers for spanish. Mike ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:29 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircraft At 11:00 AM 3/21/2012, Richard Pike wrote: > >Interesting. The FAA refers to ultralights as vehicles and uses that as >it's justification for not providing ATC services to ultralights - because >they are legally not aircraft. A common misconception. I don't have the references handy, but the definitions section of the FARs defines "aircraft" as anything that flies. Part 91 applies to "aircraft other than ultralight vehicles", but never says that an ultralight isn't an aircraft... rather, an "ultralight vehicle" is a type of "aircraft". So this new law is stupid, language reiterating something that is already law. But it makes politicians feel good... -Dana -- Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:18 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Sun 'n Fun event in Lakeland, Florida! From: "Dennis Thate" FAA Safety Forum Schedule : Forum Schedule. On the schedule you will find a webinar link for each forum session. http://qrs.ly/471nfnz http://faasafety.gov/QR/Forums.PDF -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369102#369102 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:42 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircraft From: "Richard Pike" I disagree. "Part 91 Subpart AGeneral 91.1 Applicability. (a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section and 91.701 and 91.703, this part prescribes rules governing the operation of aircraft (other than moored balloons, kites, unmanned rockets, and unmanned free balloons, which are governed by part 101 of this chapter, and ultralight vehicles operated in accordance with part 103 of this chapter) within the United States, including the waters within 3 nautical miles of the U.S. coast." FAR part 103 always refers to Ultralights as vehicles, never as aircraft. On a more personal level, I spent most of my ATC career at TRI, and (back in 1983-1987) because of this very issue, I finally licensed my Part 103 legal Hummer as an Experimental Homebuilt under part 91. The regional office told the tower chief who then briefed all of us that U/L vehicles could not be given any ATC services because there was no way of ascertaining if the operator could adhere to ATC instructions, (no license or knowledge requirements) and since there were no requirements for ultralight vehicles to have altimeters or compasses, it was impossible to issue instructions requiring headings or altitudes because there was no way to know if they could be carried out. The fact that I had a radio and was a known licensed pilot was irrelevant. Since my airstrip is just inside the class D, (used to be called the Airport Traffic Area) trying to deal with the hoop-jumping-through of part 103 was a real hassle. If they have changed that since I retired, I would be interested to hear about it and read the applicable regs if you have a part and paragraph quote. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369111#369111 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.