Kolb-List Digest Archive

Sun 04/01/12


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:11 AM - Need Help Identifing (Dennis Thate)
     2. 05:52 AM - Re: Re: Kolb quit revealed (Pat Ladd)
     3. 06:07 AM - Re: wing stall (Pat Ladd)
     4. 06:16 AM - Re: Re: Kolb quit revealed (Beauford)
     5. 07:33 AM - Re: Need Help Identifing (Rick Neilsen)
     6. 07:36 AM - Re: Kolb quit revealed (racerjerry)
     7. 07:52 AM - Re: Need Help Identifing (Larry Cottrell)
     8. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: Kolb quit revealed (Gary Aman)
     9. 10:14 AM - Re: Need Help Identifing (Pat Ladd)
    10. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Kolb quit revealed (Pat Ladd)
    11. 12:03 PM - Maximum structural cruising speed (Vno) (Ron @ KFHU)
    12. 12:10 PM - Re: Need Help Identifing (Ron @ KFHU)
    13. 12:32 PM - Re: Maximum structural cruising speed (Vno) (Dennis Thate)
    14. 02:06 PM - Re: Need Help Identifing (Rick Neilsen)
    15. 04:23 PM - Re: Need Help Identifing (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
    16. 06:25 PM - Re: Need Help Identifing (Ron @ KFHU)
    17. 11:02 PM - Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
    18. 11:14 PM - Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:11:27 AM PST US
    Subject: Need Help Identifing
    From: "Dennis Thate" <retroman@frontier.com>
    This pusher was found by my daughter on an Island off the Coast of Nicaragua , any one know for sure what it might be ? [Question] [Idea] -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369752#369752 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_205.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_crash_170.jpg


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:52:12 AM PST US
    From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Kolb quit revealed
    Maybe in GB.;-) John, the gravity is MUCH stronger over here.Bent undercarriage at least.And of course it depends on the pilots reaction. In your case with thousands of hours the reaction is keep the stick back and give a burst of power. Thats it. A tyro will probably do what he has been taught to do when the airspeed falls Push the stick forward. He dives smartly into the ground. The trouble with this entire question is that there are so many variables. Firstly. I reckon that no two Kolbs whether kit or factory built are EXACTLY the same. Even in the unlikely event of everything during the building being done precisely the same with every angle exactly similar no two planes have the same colour scheme so there is at once a variation in weight and balance. The pilots are all different. They arrange their cockpits differently.Some have minimal instrumentation. Some look like 747`s. Normally this makes no difference but we are trying to carry out an EXACT test or comparison. So the base line for all other measurements is flawed. Secondly. The sort of test we are trying to do is being carried out in `real` conditions. Variable wind, variable approach angle, variable speeds, (as no ones ASI is the same) The sort of testing which we are doing under field conditions can only properly be carried out in a wind tunnel. We just cannot expect to produce results with spittin` distance of each other The `Kolb quit` means nothing really. It is just a nice alliterative phrase to describe something we have all experienced. Its a stall. At 500ft you ease the stick forward and it goes away. Do that at 5ft and it catches you out. Thats Kolb Quit` I hope no one produces an answer that irrevocably solves all this. What should we talk about? Cheers Pat


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:07:46 AM PST US
    From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: wing stall
    can anyone help with clearing this up in my mind. >> Just off the top of my head. The problem you are talking about is nothing whatever to do with the dimensions of the wing, ratios or anything else you mentioned. It is a twist put in the wing called `washout`(which is usually desirable) or `wash in` which is not. It merely means that the wing is built with a twist so that the angle of attack varies along the length of the wing and consequently a wing will stall bit by bit along its length and not just dump all the lift the wing is generating in one fell swoop. There is a case of at least one major airplane type which was rescued from the wreckers yard as being too dangerous to fly when it was realised that during the building the `washout` built in by the designer was turned in to `washout` in error. Cheers Pat


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:16:04 AM PST US
    From: "Beauford " <beauford173@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Kolb quit revealed
    -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Pat Ladd Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 8:51 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb quit revealed ` I hope no one produces an answer that irrevocably solves all this. What should we talk about? Pat -------------- ...Seafoam...? Beauford FF-076 Do Not Archive


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:33:10 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Need Help Identifing
    From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com>
    I would guess a 912 powered Drifter but I tend to see Drifters whenever any light plane crashes. Note! the attachment. I was at 20007 Monument Valley standing way off the runway when this pilot lost control of this Drifter. When I lowered the camera I felt like the pilot was saying ramming speed get that Kolb guy. I thought I hit the ground just before getting hit but Larry C had a video that showed me ducking after the Drifter somehow missed me. Rick Neilsen On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 8:10 AM, Dennis Thate <retroman@frontier.com> wrote: > > This pusher was found by my daughter on an Island off the Coast of > Nicaragua , any one know for sure what it might be ? > > [Question] [Idea] > > -------- > Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist > invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369752#369752 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_205.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_crash_170.jpg > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:36:36 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Kolb quit revealed
    From: "racerjerry" <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    Mr. Steve Whitman shared with me at Sun and Fun 1993, to cut my pitot tube at a 45 degree angle to improve ASI accuracy at high angles of attack... john h Now THAT is interesting, and makes sense too. A straight cut pitot tube would present less ram area to incoming air at any angle other than straight ahead; circle turns into an ellipse with reduced vertical dimension at higher angles of attack. With an angle cut pitot tube, the same area is presented in level flight; but at higher angles of attack, increased area is presented to incoming air (angle cut with longest portion of tube at top). John, thank you for sharing. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369765#369765


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:52:01 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Need Help Identifing
    From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
    It sounds to me as though you might have developed a phobia over such a terrifying incident. You were lucky in that your acquaintance with the guy was only momentary. I had to fly back to Oregon with him. I still have flashbacks. :-) Larry On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote: > I would guess a 912 powered Drifter but I tend to see Drifters whenever > any light plane crashes. > > Note! the attachment. I was at 20007 Monument Valley standing way off the > runway when this pilot lost control of this Drifter. When I lowered the > camera I felt like the pilot was saying ramming speed get that Kolb guy. I > thought I hit the ground just before getting hit but Larry C had a video > that showed me ducking after the Drifter somehow missed me. > > Rick Neilsen > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 8:10 AM, Dennis Thate <retroman@frontier.com>wrote: > >> >> This pusher was found by my daughter on an Island off the Coast of >> Nicaragua , any one know for sure what it might be ? >> >> [Question] [Idea] >> >> -------- >> Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist >> invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369752#369752 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_205.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_crash_170.jpg >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > -- *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.*


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:53:32 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Kolb quit revealed
    From: Gary Aman <zeprep251@aol.com>
    Well John, We agree on Most things. G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> Sent: Sat, Mar 31, 2012 11:01 pm Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb quit revealed If you have had the opportunity to fly a Kolb model with vg's and the same Kolb model without vg's, all the way through its speed range including a full stall, you will have formed a very definite opinion about their worth on this designed wing. G.AmanMK3C I have been fortunate to have done that. The difference with and without VG's was negligible. There was an improvement in softening a full stall three point landing if I initiated one a little high. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:14:28 AM PST US
    From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Need Help Identifing
    I was at 20007 Monument Valley >> Rick, what an interesting pic. He has the stick hard over with what appears to be full application of aileron yet has no detectable rudder input. Hmmm? Pat


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:15:56 AM PST US
    From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Kolb quit revealed
    ...Seafoam...? Seafoam?. What is that? I have never heard of it. Please tell me all about it. . No. No I was kidding Pat


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:03:29 PM PST US
    From: "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1@cox.net>
    Subject: Maximum structural cruising speed (Vno)
    Lets take some respite from the "Kolb Quit" discussion, I am amazed that it has come up again. We are still spending time on that. Now if the discussion is because of boredom and there is nothing worth watching on TV I guess its okay. But if people are serious about it thinking that there is such a thing well, I think they need to hit some basic aerodynamics books. I almost think that we have a troll here that brings it up every so often just to see all the energy being expanded on this. Anyway do we have a VnO / MMO on the Kolb (M3X or M3)? I had to do some Ultralight work ( actually an experimental) again with a Challenger checking for seismic signature and to my surprise the AI (airspeed indicator) had its VNO starting at 70 MPH. Well since I have never flown Challenger before and since I have never heard anyone here bringing up V speeds I kinda thought it odd to see it that low ( well I was constantly banging up on VNO and out here almost always there is turbulance, it has a Rotax 503 pushing it), in any event I kept the cruising speed under 70 MPH to make sure I get back to Earth pretty much the way I lofted off. I'd like to hear from any Kolbers if we have those airspeeds, and any Challengerians if those speeds are correct. Btw glad to see all the kolbs in FL as soon I'll be there to join them. Ron Mason KFHU to KFXE


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:10:09 PM PST US
    From: "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Need Help Identifing
    Looks like some kind of Trike to me. Ron Mason KFHU =========================== ---- Dennis Thate <retroman@frontier.com> wrote: ============ This pusher was found by my daughter on an Island off the Coast of Nicaragua , any one know for sure what it might be ? [Question] [Idea] -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369752#369752 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_205.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_crash_170.jpg -- Ron @ KFHU


    Message 13


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    Time: 12:32:16 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Maximum structural cruising speed (Vno)
    From: "Dennis Thate" <retroman@frontier.com>
    "The "Kolb Quit" discussion,...I'd have to agree". [Wink] -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369785#369785 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04328_320.jpg


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:06:38 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Need Help Identifing
    From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com>
    Ron Look at the second photo. There is a tail of some sort and on one side there is what looks like both wings on top of each other with what looks like control surfaces. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Ron @ KFHU <captainron1@cox.net> wrote: > > Looks like some kind of Trike to me. > > > Ron Mason > KFHU > > =========================== > ---- Dennis Thate <retroman@frontier.com> wrote: > > ============ > > This pusher was found by my daughter on an Island off the Coast of > Nicaragua , any one know for sure what it might be ? > > [Question] [Idea] > > -------- > Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist > invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369752#369752 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_205.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_crash_170.jpg > > > -- > Ron @ KFHU > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 04:23:21 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Need Help Identifing
    From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com>
    is that the crash sight ? Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Thate <retroman@frontier.com> Sent: Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:26 am Subject: Kolb-List: Need Help Identifing This pusher was found by my daughter on an Island off the Coast of Nicaragu a , ny one know for sure what it might be ? [Question] [Idea] -------- oth optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist inven ts he airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369752#369752 ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_205.jpg ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_crash_170.jpg -======================== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -========================


    Message 16


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    Time: 06:25:51 PM PST US
    From: "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Need Help Identifing
    Ha no kidding, I didn't have my reading glasses on and thought all of that crap was just more furniture on the lawn, was looking for the washing machine and old stove. Ron Mason KFHU ========================================== ---- Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote: ============ Ron Look at the second photo. There is a tail of some sort and on one side there is what looks like both wings on top of each other with what looks like control surfaces. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Ron @ KFHU <captainron1@cox.net> wrote: > > Looks like some kind of Trike to me. > > > Ron Mason > KFHU > > =========================== > ---- Dennis Thate <retroman@frontier.com> wrote: > > ============ > > This pusher was found by my daughter on an Island off the Coast of > Nicaragua , any one know for sure what it might be ? > > [Question] [Idea] > > -------- > Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist > invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369752#369752 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_205.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/pusher_crash_170.jpg > > > -- > Ron @ KFHU > > -- Ron @ KFHU


    Message 17


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    Time: 11:02:59 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Kolb-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Kolb-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Kolb-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Kolb-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. 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This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "kolb-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Kolb-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Kolb-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kolb-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Kolb-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kolb-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Kolb-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Kolb-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Kolb-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kolb ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kolb-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kolb-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 18


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    Time: 11:14:18 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Kolb-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Kolb-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kolb-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kolb-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive




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