---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/06/12: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:25 AM - Re: "Hypethetically" (Dana Hague) 2. 10:07 AM - Re: "Hypethetically" (FIRESTARII) 3. 11:08 AM - Re: Re: "Hypethetically" (John Hauck) 4. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: "Hypethetically" (Herb Gayheart) 5. 02:41 PM - Re: "Hypethetically" (FIRESTARII) 6. 05:38 PM - Re: "Hypethetically" (Dennis Thate) 7. 06:12 PM - Re: Re: "Hypethetically" (David Kulp) 8. 08:23 PM - Re: "Hypethetically" (FIRESTARII) 9. 08:28 PM - Re: Re: "Hypethetically" (Malcolm Brubaker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:19 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: "Hypethetically" It sounds like a "data plate restoration", where an antique airplane restorer has nothing but a data plate and an airwothiness certificate and, well, replaces everything else and has an original antique airplane when he's done. What you're describing, the way you're describing it, isn't legal... but it's perfectly legal to, say, replace the wings with a set of used wings, and replace the fuselage with a good used fuselage, install a new used engine and... well, you get the idea. Just a situation where the decision might be just how verbose to be in the logbook... A single seat FSII would certainly be overweight for 103, but it wouldn't be the first one. -Dana At 10:37 PM 5/5/2012, FIRESTARII wrote: > >If a guy currently had a registered and N-Numbered FSII and "Happened" to >Find a really good deal on an unregistered FSII, The same exact make and >model, would it be possible to use the existing paper work and N-Number on >the other airplane to make it legal??? Of course this is pure >theroy. Just something to mull over while hanger flying. Let's also >assume the unregistered FSII is WAY nicer and newer than the registered >one. Then re-power the old one with say a 447 and a 5 gallon tank, 1 seat >and sell as part 103 UL???? This is of course all speculation of course >but the issue "May" have come across a friends desk and if its possible I >know a guy who knows a guy who may be interested in moving forward with >the deal? :D. Looking for yeah or neah here not a toung lashing, please >also my friend of a friend is asking BEFOR doing and not the other way >around. I think my friend is a good guy who flys very safe and respects >the law, when the law makes logical sense and does not make an otherwise >perfectly airworthy airplane un-airworthy because o! > f a piece of paper and a few extra bucks in uncle SAMs pockets! Let me > know what you think so I cal steer my friend in the correct direction. > >-------- >Low and Slow FireStar II > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372481#372481 > > -- California Raisins murdered - cereal killer suspected! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:22 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: "Hypethetically" From: "FIRESTARII" My friend was not sure about the 447 powered version meeting all the 103 criteria it was a topic of discussion though! Outside of weight I think it would fit in the categorie and unless the FAA(Friendly Aviation Associates) had a set of scales in their car they would be hard pressed to prove it! -------- Low and Slow FireStar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372499#372499 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:58 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: "Hypethetically" My friend was not sure about the 447 powered version meeting all the 103 criteria it was a topic of discussion though! Outside of weight I think it would fit in the categorie and unless the FAA(Friendly Aviation Associates) had a set of scales in their car they would be hard pressed to prove it! -------- Low and Slow FireStar II Kolbers: Wonder if this guy's friend knows you are posting this info on an open email list? Yes, even the FAA knows a FF will barely make Part 103 if starved to death. They also know that all the other models of Kolbs will not even get close to Part 103 requirements. Your friend does not seem to be very well educated in Kolb aircraft. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:31 AM PST US From: Herb Gayheart Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: "Hypethetically" Friend of mine swears that his 377 powered, single seat, 5 rib Firestar makes UL legal wt.. Herb At 01:08 PM 5/6/2012, you wrote: > > > >My friend was not sure about the 447 powered version meeting all the 103 >criteria it was a topic of discussion though! Outside of weight I think it >would fit in the categorie and unless the FAA(Friendly Aviation Associates) >had a set of scales in their car they would be hard pressed to prove it! > >-------- >Low and Slow FireStar II > > >Kolbers: > >Wonder if this guy's friend knows you are posting this info on an open email >list? > >Yes, even the FAA knows a FF will barely make Part 103 if starved to death. >They also know that all the other models of Kolbs will not even get close to >Part 103 requirements. > >Your friend does not seem to be very well educated in Kolb aircraft. > >john h >mkIII >Titus, Alabama > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:00 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: "Hypethetically" From: "FIRESTARII" Education is a relative term and is subject to the standards set forth by the judging party. Hence a brain surgeon is well versed on the human brain but would be relatively ignorant in a discussion with a proctologist! Never the less they could have a meaningful discussion about HMO's and frivolous law suits and mutually enjoy the various different prospectives. One might even argue that the brain surgeon and proctologist, both doctors, view the same person from opposite ends! :D The same argument could be made about aviation safety. Is it safe to do a snap roll on take off??? The answer is both yes and no, neither one is necessarily correct. If a newbie sport pilot tries it, it is reasonable to call it unsafe however, if Shaun Tucker were to do it nobody would call it unreasonably dangerous or foolish! Also what exactly is a safe, properly registered EAB airplane any how? Who knows? One FSDO's answer frequently varies quite a lot from another. What makes an EAB airworthy...the DAR and the paper work not necessarily the airplane. My friend has flown some "Certificated" "Real" airplanes that were far less physically airworthy than a non-certificated EAB's. What makes an airplane airworthy??? The paper work not the airplane. Is it legal to fly an airplane out of annual, YES. Is it legal to fly an airplane with broken parts, yes! Is it legal to fly through class B airspace without a transponder, YES! Why, because of paperwork, if paperwork is all in order then all these things become not only legal but safe if executed properly. As for the discussion taking place on a public, open forum....You hit the nail on the head of one of the major, major problems with aviation! If an individual has a question or situation that falls outside of what most consider the norm, who can he or she discuss it with? Most just bury it or hide it or pretend it never happened out of fear of false accusations/assumptions by others. That being the case more often then not, how then as aviators, are we to learn as well as teach others! I opened this thread for "My friend" because if the question/thought crossed his mind then I find it entirely likely this is not the first time the issue has come up! Perhaps if we can discuss it for what it is then rather than calling foul...we can all learn a little something and be safer and better educated in the end!!!!! -------- Low and Slow FireStar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372514#372514 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:58 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: "Hypethetically" From: "Dennis Thate" [Wink] :P -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372523#372523 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/grammar_nazis_390.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:13 PM PST US From: David Kulp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: "Hypethetically" The lights are on but nobody's home. On 5/6/2012 8:38 PM, Dennis Thate wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Thate" > > [Wink] :P > > -------- > Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372523#372523 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/grammar_nazis_390.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:00 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: "Hypethetically" From: "FIRESTARII" Grammar never was my strong point and at least the lights are on! Step 1, check! [Laughing] -------- Low and Slow FireStar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372526#372526 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:11 PM PST US From: Malcolm Brubaker Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: "Hypethetically" my first kolb was a firestar KXP I bout it from Homer it was one of the - factory built demo planes all the guys flew-her she -had the 7 rib wing 447- and no N number.- that was then, NOW most would tell you its not a good idea,- but last summer- we sold Dick Rayhills FS11 with no n# =0A-for $7K . Curently- you will not find a plane for sale on My web si te that has -no N# contrary to what you mite read about me in resent post s. the hole N# and UL thing will alwase be a topic of great debate.-- - BTW I will be posting a nice low time MK3 extra with a jab 2200 in a co uple days.--- =0A=0AMalcolm & Jeanne Brubaker =0AMichigan Sport Pilot Repair =0Ahttp://michigansportpilotrepair.com =0ALSRM-A, PPC, WS=0AGreat Sails - Sailmaker =0Afor Ultralight & Light Sport=0A(989)513-3022 =0A- =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: FIRESTARII =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 5:40 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Re: "Hypethetically"=0A =0A--> Kolb-List mes sage posted by: "FIRESTARII" =0A=0AEducation is a relativ e term and is subject to the standards set forth by the judging party.- H ence a brain surgeon is well versed on the human brain but would be relativ ely ignorant in a discussion with a proctologist!- Never the less they co uld have a meaningful discussion about HMO's and frivolous law suits and mu tually enjoy the various different prospectives.- One might even argue th at the brain surgeon and proctologist, both doctors, view the same person f rom opposite ends! :D =0AThe same argument could be made about aviation saf ety.- Is it safe to do a snap roll on take off???- The answer is both yes and no, neither one is necessarily correct.- If a newbie sport pilot tries it, it is reasonable to call it unsafe however, if Shaun Tucker were to do it nobody would call it unreasonably dangerous or foolish!- =0AAls o what exactly is a safe, properly registered EAB airplane any how?- Who knows?- One FSDO's answer frequently varies quite a lot from another.- What makes an EAB airworthy...the DAR and the paper work not necessarily t he airplane.- My friend has flown some "Certificated" "Real" airplanes th at were far less physically airworthy than a non-certificated EAB's.- Wha t makes an airplane airworthy???- The paper work not the airplane.- Is it legal to fly an airplane out of annual, YES.- Is it legal to fly an ai rplane with broken parts, yes!- Is it legal to fly through class B airspa ce without a transponder, YES!- Why, because of paperwork, if paperwork is all in order then all these things become not only legal but safe if exe cuted properly.=0AAs for the discussion taking place on a public, open foru m....You hit the nail on the head of one of the major, major problems with aviation!- If an individual has a question or situation that falls outsid e of what most consider the norm,- who can he or she discuss it with?- Most just bury it or hide it or pretend it never happened out of fear of f alse accusations/assumptions by others.- That being the case more often then not, how then as aviators, are we to learn as well as teach others!- =0AI opened this thread for "My friend" because if the question/thought cr ossed his mind then I find it entirely likely this is not the first time th e issue has come up!=0APerhaps if we can discuss it for what it is then rat her than calling foul...we can all learn a little something and be safer an d better educated in the end!!!!!=0A=0A--------=0ALow and Slow FireStar II =0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.co - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List ====== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.