Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:14 AM - Re: Re: Flying Bryce canyon and Monument Valley - Knowhow? (Pat Ladd)
2. 07:41 AM - Sad day (Pat Ladd)
3. 07:44 AM - Re: Sad day (Robert Laird)
4. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: Flying Bryce canyon and Monument Valley - Knowhow? (TheWanderingWench)
5. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: Flying Bryce canyon and Monument Valley - Knowhow? (Pat Ladd)
6. 11:07 AM - Re: Sad day (Beauford)
7. 11:11 AM - Re: Sad day (John Hauck)
8. 11:43 AM - Re: Sad day (henry.voris)
9. 11:56 AM - Re: Sad day (John Hauck)
10. 01:05 PM - Re: Sad day (Eddie)
11. 01:29 PM - Re: Sad day (Thom Riddle)
12. 05:00 PM - NASA , Jets of the future (Dennis Thate)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Bryce canyon and Monument Valley - Knowhow? |
I had a sink of almost 1000 feet, even with 6200 RPM I was just managing to
stay level. >>
Hi
Thats not an underpowered engine. All engine can sometimes be overwhelmed.
If you get in a load of sink, downwind of a mountain crest or in a cold
corner of a canyon no engine power will save you. Learn something about the
air and dont go there. Fly where the sun has warmed the rockface and get
close. You will go up. As the warmed air is going up the cold air in the
shadow will be going down to replace it. Whatever your normal climb rate
down flowing air can go faster in some circumstances.
Read Saint Exupery. `Sand and Stars` I think. He was flying the mails and
got in the downdraft from a mountain range. There is a great description of
him flying at full power and being pushed steadily towards the sea below.
Use the air, don`t fight it. You can`t win.
Cheers
Pat
Message 2
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Hi all,
with all the good news of various listers getting their planes into the
air I am sorry to say that one is is heading in the other direction. I
am grounded. An old back injury, originally caused by carrying a glider
wing back in the 70`s has finally bitten me in the backside. Now
although I can fly, I dare not chance it by pushing and pulling the
plane on the ground, carrying fuel and doing all the twisting and
turning involved in manhandling and maintaining the Xtra.
I solo`d in a Grunau glider in 1965 ended flying a 19 metre wingspan
Jantar.. I have flown more than 50 different planes including gliders,
microlights, hang gliders and `real` planes`. I have talked myself into
some really nice stuff, a couple of T 6`s, `Crazy Horse` Mustang at
Kissimee, a Jet Provost, Tiger Moth, Jackaroo ( a sort of Tiggy with a
lid on) A jet fighter (I have forgotten the type) down in the Keys
somewhere.. I solo`d in ultralights in a Quicksilver. Not the plane
flying now but a real stick and string machine with little winglets
attached to the wing tips which dragged a wingtip round when you wanted
to turn. I have flown a couple of ultralight amphibians. One on Lake
Wales and one in Quiberon Bay off the coast of France
Altogether I have met some interesting people and thoroughly enjoyed my
flying, even the heartstopping moments when things go quiet up front. I
almost got ingested by a Japanese Airliner while I was sitting in my
glider fat, happy and lost at 5000 ft agl while he was stacking to line
up for Heathrow. I know it was Japanese because I could read it on the
fuselage as he went by.
I suppose I have had a good innings. Except for a few years when I went
sailing I have flown every year since `65. I shall be 83 in August and
I had expected to have another 3 or 4 years flying but it is not to be.
The doctor said " Let me get this right. You have bought a wheelchair
and you have a ``Blue Badge` (In the UK this entitles you to park your
car in stupid places, on bends with double yellow lines, and probably
not pay in car parks) And you are arguing about flying a microlight.
Have a bit of common sense". The doc. hasn`t actualy withdrawn my
medical flying license (You need one to be legal over here) but he did
point out that it was pretty stupid and the pain in my back and legs
backed him up. So the Xtra is up for sale with a Jabi 2200 and only
about 90 hours. I hope she goes to a good home.
I shall go on being a member of the list for a while. reading about
other peoples flying is next best to doing it yourself.
Cheers
Pat
Message 3
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Sorry to hear it, Pat. Hopefully you've got some good mates who will let
you fly with them from time to time. Altitude sickness is hard to get over.
Kindest regards,
-- Robert
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Pat Ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> wrote:
> **
> Hi all,
>
> with all the good news of various listers getting their planes into the
> air I am sorry to say that one is is heading in the other direction. I am
> grounded. An old back injury, originally caused by carrying a glider wing
> back in the 70`s has finally bitten me in the backside. Now although I can
> fly, I dare not chance it by pushing and pulling the plane on the ground,
> carrying fuel and doing all the twisting and turning involved in
> manhandling and maintaining the Xtra.
> I solo`d in a Grunau glider in 1965 ended flying a 19 metre wingspan
> Jantar.. I have flown more than 50 different planes including gliders,
> microlights, hang gliders and `real` planes`. I have talked myself into
> some really nice stuff, a couple of T 6`s, `Crazy Horse` Mustang at
> Kissimee, a Jet Provost, Tiger Moth, Jackaroo ( a sort of Tiggy with a lid
> on) A jet fighter (I have forgotten the type) down in the Keys somewhere..
> I solo`d in ultralights in a Quicksilver. Not the plane flying now but a
> real stick and string machine with little winglets attached to the wing
> tips which dragged a wingtip round when you wanted to turn. I have flown a
> couple of ultralight amphibians. One on Lake Wales and one in Quiberon Bay
> off the coast of France
> Altogether I have met some interesting people and thoroughly enjoyed my
> flying, even the heartstopping moments when things go quiet up front. I
> almost got ingested by a Japanese Airliner while I was sitting in my glider
> fat, happy and lost at 5000 ft agl while he was stacking to line up for
> Heathrow. I know it was Japanese because I could read it on the fuselage as
> he went by.
> I suppose I have had a good innings. Except for a few years when I went
> sailing I have flown every year since `65. I shall be 83 in August and I
> had expected to have another 3 or 4 years flying but it is not to be.
> The doctor said " Let me get this right. You have bought a wheelchair and
> you have a ``Blue Badge` (In the UK this entitles you to park your car in
> stupid places, on bends with double yellow lines, and probably not pay in
> car parks) And you are arguing about flying a microlight. Have a bit of
> common sense". The doc. hasn`t actualy withdrawn my medical flying license
> (You need one to be legal over here) but he did point out that it was
> pretty stupid and the pain in my back and legs backed him up. So the Xtra
> is up for sale with a Jabi 2200 and only about 90 hours. I hope she goes to
> a good home.
>
> I shall go on being a member of the list for a while. reading about other
> peoples flying is next best to doing it yourself.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Bryce canyon and Monument Valley - Knowhow? |
I agree 100% with Pat - a sink doesn't mean you're underpowered. -I remem
ber flying up the Columbia River Gorge (between Oregon and Washington) and
suddenly I started going down...down...down, sinking like the proverbial ro
ck. Going to full power (with a 503) didn't help, just slowed the descent s
lightly. I radio'd to my buddy who was up ahead that my engine seemed sudde
nly not to have enough power, and he cheerfully radio'd back "That's a hell
of a downdraft back there, isn't it? You'll be through it soon." -And I
was - since I had plenty of altitude.=0A=0ASomething that might be helpful.
When I'm flying in high elevation, high density altitude country - hot day
s in Utah, Nevada, etc. -I look for cloud shadows, and hopscotch to fly i
n the shadows. I always get some lift in the shadows. Of course, there's no
t always clouds - or they may be far apart - but they never fail to provide
lift. That seems to be opposite of what Pat writes below about cold air in
the shadows - all I know is that it's never failed me.=0A=0AArty Trost-
=0A-Sandy, Oregon=0A=0Awww.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/oshkosh/=0A=0A"Life's a
daring adventure or nothing"=0AHelen Keller=0A=0A=0A"I refuse to tip toe t
hrough life just to arrive safely at death."=0A=0A=0A______________________
__________=0A From: Pat Ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>=0ATo: kolb-list@matro
nics.com =0ASent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:13 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List: Re
: Flying Bryce canyon and Monument Valley - Knowhow?=0A =0A--> Kolb-List me
ssage posted by: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>=0A=0AI had a sink of a
lmost 1000 feet, even with 6200 RPM I was just managing to stay level. >>
=0A=0AHi=0AThats not an underpowered engine. All engine can sometimes be ov
erwhelmed. If you get in a load of sink, downwind of a mountain crest or in
a cold corner of a canyon no engine power will save you. Learn something a
bout the air and dont go there. Fly where the sun has warmed the rockface a
nd get close. You will go up. As the warmed air is going up the cold air-
in the shadow will be going down to replace it. Whatever your normal climb
rate down flowing air can go faster in some circumstances.=0ARead Saint Ex
upery. `Sand and Stars` I think. He was flying the mails and got in the dow
ndraft from a mountain range. There is a great description of him flying at
full power and being pushed steadily towards the sea below.=0A=0AUse the a
=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle
========
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Bryce canyon and Monument Valley - Knowhow? |
I look for cloud shadows, and hopscotch to fly in the shadows.>>
Hi Arty,
It sounds as though by accident you have found thermals.Very useful.
Clouds, particularly the fat fluffy Cu. are formed by warm air going
up. Thermals. Get into one and up you go. Learn to circle in one and you
can switch your engine off. Ask a glider pilot how and fit a variometer.
The cloud in fact is the warm air turning into water vapour. At this
point there is a major energy release and if you are close to the bottom
of the cloud you can get sucked up into it. This is good or bad
depending upon how good you are on instruments in rough conditions. When
all the warm air has been drawn up into the cloud it stops working. If
the cloud tends to go on building, stay away. You can get sucked up and
spat out with no wings if you get in the wrong one.Gliders have speed
limiting brakes. We do not. If you lose it in a glider you just pull the
speed brakes and wait until you fall out of the cloud and then sort it
out and close the brakes.
In the UK we are (or were in my day) allowed to fly in cloud although it
was not allowed in Europe. We just went into cloud and radioed our
height and approx. position for the information of others..
There was one occasion when a pilot radioed ` I am at 5000 ft in cloud
over Salisbury. This message was followed by several more all saying `So
am I` and a number of gliders coming out of the sides of the cloud at
high speed.
By definition half the clouds in the sky have stopped working. You can
tell this by the colour. When a thermal begins to turn into a cloud it
looks hazy and a milky colour. When it stops it turns a grey colour and
begins to dissipate. It is said that this can be detected more easily
with sunglasses although I could never tell the difference.Unless you
are near cloudbase it is probably easier to identify a thermal source by
looking at the ground.
Thermals form where the earth warms at different rates. The house roofs
of a town with grassland around. The change from grass to plough. A
concrete runway on an airfield or a blacktop road through open country.
Thermals lean downwind so if you can identify a source and fly upwind
towards it or better still find the cloud which it is feeding and
position yourself accordingly you will go up.Birds are a good indicator.
They don`t practice turns for fun. If they are circling it is because
there is a thermal. Join them. There may be enough lift to help you as
well.Sometimes if you are lucky when you circle you might be joined by a
soaring bird such as a hawk or a buzzard or a kite which will sit as
your wingman just off the wingtip..
What goes up must come down and your thermal will be surrounded by
descending air. As you approach the thermal your rate of descent will go
up so fly through that area quickly. Then the air will feel sort of
bubbly. Like flying in Champagne. With luck one wing will lift. Slow up
and turn towards it and up you go. Maybe. Otherwise search around . It
is more art that science
and it sounds as if you have cracked it by good observation and canny
flying.
All the best
Pat..
Message 6
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Brother Ladd.
I am indeed sorry to hear that you are forced to move on from flying. and
that you will be letting go of your Kolb.
You have certainly had a rich and varied aviation experience. May you enjoy
your memories of those good times
for many years to come.
We will all reach this same waypoint sooner or later. I hope I will show
the same sound judgment and grace you are displaying
when I get there.
I am happy that you will be staying on the List.
Best Regards,
Beauford
FF-076
Brandon, FL
Do Not Archive
From: -kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Ladd
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 10:41 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Sad day
Hi all,
with all the good news of various listers getting their planes into the air
I am sorry to say that one is is heading in the other direction. I am
grounded.
the Xtra is up for sale with a Jabi 2200 and only about 90 hours. I hope she
goes to a good home.
I shall go on being a member of the list for a while. reading about other
peoples flying is next best to doing it yourself.
Cheers
Pat
Message 7
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I am grounded. An old back injury
Pat
Patrick L/Folks:
Sorry to hear you have grounded yourself.
Hope I can continue to fly as long as you have.
john h
London, Kentucky (Be at the Kolb Plant tomorrow)
Message 8
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Sorry to hear it pat...
Always enjoyed hearing the view from your side of the pond...
Good luck and Aloha,
--------
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372978#372978
Message 9
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with all the good news of various listers getting their
planes into the air I am sorry to say that one is is heading
in the other direction. I am grounded.
the Xtra is up for sale with a Jabi 2200 and only about 90
hours. I hope she goes to a good home.
I shall go on being a member of the list for a while.
reading about other peoples flying is next best to doing it
yourself.
Cheers
Pat
Patrick L/Kolbers:
In addition to Patrick's other aviation accomplishments, it
can be said he has traveled further than anyone else to
attend the Monument Valley Unplanned/Unorganized Fly In.
john h
London, KY
Message 10
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Pat
Sorry to hear your news ,I am a few hours away from you in liverpool but
if your ever in this area you would be welcome to come and give me the
pleasure of your company (and the benefit of your experience ) for a
potter around this part of england ( Liverpool ,Merseyside ) in my old
mk111 c , I am usually found at the airfield ( ince blundell )most
weekemds if the weather is flyable and stay normally untill darkness
tells me to put her away. just let me know through the list ( I am an
avid follower but seldom poster ) I usually catch up with all the posts
on friday night or saturday morning as I am often away from home all
week for work
Eddie
mk111c
rotax 582
Message 11
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Pat,
So sorry to hear your back is acting up to the point you can no longer man-handle
your Xtra on the ground. BUT...
"...Now although I can fly, I dare not chance it by pushing and pulling the plane
on the ground, carrying fuel and doing all the twisting and turning involved
in manhandling and maintaining the Xtra. ..."
Since you can still FLY, perhaps you could find a youngster (anyone able to do
what you no longer can) to fly with you for the price of man-handling the Xtra
on the ground.
Just a thought. If I were in the situation you describe I would be very tempted
to do what I have just suggested. Surely there is at least one guy/gal in your
area who would jump at the opportunity, assuming your physician approves of
such a scheme.
In any case, I too am very glad to know you will at the very least, stay on the
Kolb List and continue offering your nearly always wise insight to us other Kolbers.
Once a Kolber, ALWAYS a Kolber, whether you are flying or not.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372991#372991
Message 12
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| Subject: | NASA , Jets of the future |
Not Kolb Related, but profoundly interesting;
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-04/jets-future
--------
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents
the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373004#373004
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