---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/19/12: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:31 AM - Gad, more VG's! (Larry Cottrell) 2. 11:21 AM - Re: Gad, more VG's! (william sullivan) 3. 11:54 AM - Re: Gad, more VG's! (Larry Cottrell) 4. 11:59 AM - Re: Gad, more VG's! (william sullivan) 5. 12:08 PM - Re: Gad, more VG's! (Michael Welch) 6. 12:46 PM - Re: Gad, more VG's! (Michael Welch) 7. 12:54 PM - Re: Gad, more VG's! (william sullivan) 8. 01:55 PM - Nice day (Gary Aman) 9. 02:18 PM - Re: Gad, more VG's! (William Long) 10. 04:13 PM - Re: Gad, more VG's! (Larry Cottrell) 11. 06:23 PM - Re: Gad, more VG's! (John Hauck) 12. 07:51 PM - Re: Re: "Hypethetically" (Ron @ KFHU) 13. 08:05 PM - Re: "Hypethetically" kolb related (Ron @ KFHU) 14. 08:28 PM - Re: Sad day (Ron @ KFHU) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:07 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Gad, more VG's! From: Larry Cottrell Sorry, but bored minds are inquisitive. Landings have always been less than satisfactory for me. I have made a lot of them, but everyone Else's seem to be better. Perhaps there is some poor smuck out there that lands worse than me, but I haven't met him. John on one of his trips out here pointed out that the slack in my stick was making it harder to look like someone smart. We tightened that up and they improved a lot. Then we tightened the cables on the horizontal stab, and they got better still. I have done a lot of landings this spring in an attempt to improve things and I noticed that even though I pulled the stick back as far as my various protuberances would allow, I was still sinking enough that I could not keep it in the air as long as I thought that I still had flying airspeed. My thoughts were that I was still above stall when the wheels touched down. My stall has been 36 MPH or something real close to that. I neglected to do a stall today for some reason. >From the list it was obvious that there was two things that I could do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had resisted the seal because I had not gotten off my butt to get anything suitable, and the VG's on the idea that I still had elevator authority right through to stall. As most of you will remember from my vids there are a lot of places that I like to go that have less than a paved runway. So I decided that I would go the VG route. I decided on 6 total, three on each side. I know that there are some who ascribe to more is better, but I think that only applies to fattening and sin full things. Anyway yesterday I "Shoe Goo'ed" them on. The weather this week is supposed to be "breezy" but it warmed up to less than icing conditions and the wind was calm, so I rolled her out and warmed her up. The first thing that I noticed was that she took off by herself, at 40 MPH and the climb at 45 was seriously steeper than I am used to. By the time I hit the end of the runway I was about 250 feet up and before I could turn to land, hitting 600 feet. I had leveled out quite a bit, because even though my butt was telling me that there was no problem, my mind was telling me that my butt was lying through its shorts. I held it on 50 MPH on the approach and cut the throttle to idle as is my normal procedure. only this time I kept my eye on the ASI. I was able to hold it off the ground until the ASI passed through 30 MPH. Unfortunately I was not able to do test with and without on the same day, so this would not stand up to a test by Jack H, but I am fairly confident that I was able to hold it off until the wing quit flying, and I had never been able to do that before. I am fairly confident that my previous airspeed without, was in the 40 MPH range. If I can go over that rock at 10 MPH less airspeed, it is a good thing. Quoting Beauford " Worth what ye paid for it" Larry -- *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:21:46 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gad, more VG's! - Larry- Just a thought, but what about duct tape for the gap seal?- I think it's vinyl covered, so it should be compatible with the Stits paint. - Anybody know how it would work?- I have to do all of mine, and everyb ody seems to have a favorite. ------------------------- --------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- --------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- --------------- FS 447 --- On Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell wrote:From th e list it was obvious that there was two things that I could do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had resisted the seal be cause I had not gotten off my butt to get anything suitable...=0A =0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gad, more VG's! From: Larry Cottrell I thought of Duct tape, but While I have great luck sticking things with it, it always seems to leave a mess. I guess I will have to get some "book binding tape", unless someone has a better idea. Larry On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 12:20 PM, william sullivan wrote: > Larry- Just a thought, but what about duct tape for the gap seal? I > think it's vinyl covered, so it should be compatible with the Stits paint. > Anybody know how it would work? I have to do all of mine, and everybody > seems to have a favorite. > > Bill Sullivan > Windsor Locks, Ct. > FS 447 > > --- On *Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell *wrote:From the list it was obvious that there was two things that I could > do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had > resisted the seal because I had not gotten off my butt to get anything > suitable... > > * > * > > * > > * > > -- *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:04 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gad, more VG's! - I was thinking about using it.- Overlap sticky side to sticky side, s o it's about 3" wide.- Then you can do the "over and under" application. - Also, short lengths- hinge to hinge, and get a helper because of the th ree handed juggling act with any tape.- I was just waiting for somebody t o mention it. --- On Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell wrote: From: Larry Cottrell Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gad, more VG's! I thought of Duct tape, but While I have great luck sticking things with it , it always seems to leave a mess. I guess I will have to get some "book bi nding tape", unless someone has a better idea. Larry =0A On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 12:20 PM, william sullivan wrote: =0A- Larry- Just a thought, but what about duct tape for the gap seal?- I think it's vinyl covered, so it should be compatible with the Stits pain t.- Anybody know how it would work?- I have to do all of mine, and ever ybody seems to have a favorite. =0A ------------------------- --------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- --------------- Windsor Locks,=0A Ct. ------------------------- --------------- FS 447 --- On Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell wrote:From th e list it was obvious that there was two things that I could do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had resisted the seal be cause I had not gotten off my butt to get anything suitable...=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0Aget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List =0Atp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n=0A=0A -- If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email addres s before sending. =0A ===================0A=0A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gad, more VG's! From: Michael Welch Bill, As an emergency, I'd imagine duct tape would work just fine. But long term I'd think it won't work so well. It will eventually leave a glue residue that is true nightmare to clean up, plus, if you leave it on long enough, the whole mess gets sun-baked and the duct tape starts to delaminate. If I were to add gap seals, and I will, I just haven't gotten to them yet, I'd use some of that PolyFiber fabric. I found if you use Polybrush, you can build up a fairly study fabric. Two layers of fabric when glued together with Polybrush) can be sort turned into one "more heavy -duty" layer. This double-thick fabric is what you can cut down into 2" wide strips, and then use your regular PolyFiber tape to glue it on. Once you get your PolyFiber gap seals all glued on, tape off the area and spray the unpainted parts with your PolyTone paint. At least, that's what I'd do. Oh yeah, don't forget to preshrink the 2" strips....we don't want them distorting due sitting in the hot sun. Mike Welch On May 19, 2012, at 1:20 PM, william sullivan wrote: > Larry- Just a thought, but what about duct tape for the gap seal? I think it's vinyl covered, so it should be compatible with the Stits paint. Anybody know how it would work? I have to do all of mine, and everybody seems to have a favorite. > > Bill Sullivan > Windsor Locks, Ct. > FS 447 > > --- On Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell wrote:=46rom the list it was obvious that there was two things that I could do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had resisted the seal because I had not gotten off my butt to get anything suitable... > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:49 PM PST US From: Michael Welch Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gad, more VG's! Oops! Typo. I found you can build up some "sturdy" fabric. I missed the R. M ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:25 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gad, more VG's! - Mike- I was wondering if a top coat of the Stits paint would protect th e duct tape.- Duct tape out in the open does deteriorate pretty quickly. - My FS won't be in the air for quite a while, so maybe I'll try it on so mething like the old plastic bench in my back yard.- i get plenty of sun back there.- My curiosity is getting to me, and the bench is getting read y for the dump anyway. --- On Sat, 5/19/12, Michael Welch wrote: From: Michael Welch Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gad, more VG's! Bill, - As an emergency, I'd imagine duct tape would work just fine. -But lon g term I'd think it won't work so well.It will eventually leave a glue resi due that is true nightmare to clean up, plus, if you leave it on long-eno ugh, the whole mess gets sun-baked and the duct tape starts to delaminate. - If I were to add gap seals, and I will, I just haven't gotten to them y et, I'd use some of that PolyFiberfabric. -I found if you use Polybrush, you can build up a fairly study fabric. -Two layers of fabricwhen glued t ogether with Polybrush)-can be sort turned into one "more heavy -duty" la yer. -This-double-thick fabric is what-you can cut down into 2" wide strips, and then use your regular PolyFiber-tape to glue it on. -- On ce you get your PolyFiber gap seals all glued on, tape off the area and spr ay theunpainted parts with your-PolyTone paint. - At least, that's what I'd do. -Oh yeah, don't forget to preshrink the 2" strips....we don't want them distortingdue sitting in the hot sun. Mike Welch On May 19, 2012, at 1:20 PM, william sullivan wrote: - Larry- Just a thought, but what about duct tape for the gap seal?- I think it's vinyl covered, so it should be compatible with the Stits paint. - Anybody know how it would work?- I have to do all of mine, and everyb ody seems to have a favorite. ------------------------- --------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- --------------- Windsor Locks,=0A Ct. ------------------------- --------------- FS 447 --- On Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell wrote:From th e list it was obvious that there was two things that I could do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had resisted the seal be cause I had not gotten off my butt to get anything suitable...=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http:/ /www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.co m/">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A=0A ==================0A=0A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:37 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Nice day From: Gary Aman Listers, Perfect day,10 minute walk to a breakfast place ( the whiffle tree) In Butl er Ohio from old Swank airfield,still mowed but not showing on the maps,aft er a 50 min flight from 1D4 in Akron.Five of us there about 8:45, one campe r under the wing of his, Rans S14 I think,but before we could start walking 13 more aircraft showed up and about 9:15, 22 of us headed for breakfast.S adly only one Kolb. G.Aman MK3C Jabiru 2200 A 692hrs ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:18:11 PM PST US From: William Long Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gad, more VG's! Find some thick clear 2 inch tape and overlap a little more than the gap to fill start on the top and then under for the back it will last years. Bill Long UL002 FireFly ________________________________ From: william sullivan Sent: Sat, May 19, 2012 2:28:15 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gad, more VG's! Larry- Just a thought, but what about duct tape for the gap seal? I think it's vinyl covered, so it should be compatible with the Stits paint. Anybody know how it would work? I have to do all of mine, and everybody seems to have a favorite. Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. FS 447 --- On Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell wrote:From the list it was obvious that there was two things that I could do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had resisted the seal because I had not gotten off my butt to get anything suitable... > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gad, more VG's! From: Larry Cottrell OK, you two got me to thinking and I remembered that I had some Scotch brand two inch rubber type tape that I have been using for a leading edge tape. It has been on the plane for at least 6 years and shows no sign of deteriation at all. I bought it from Aircraft Spruce for that purpose. So now I am VGed and Sealed. Larry On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Michael Welch wrote: > Bill, > > As an emergency, I'd imagine duct tape would work just fine. But long > term I'd think it won't work so well. > It will eventually leave a glue residue that is true nightmare to clean > up, plus, if you leave it on long > enough, the whole mess gets sun-baked and the duct tape starts to > delaminate. > > If I were to add gap seals, and I will, I just haven't gotten to them > yet, I'd use some of that PolyFiber > fabric. > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:09 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Gad, more VG's! At least, that's what I'd do. Oh yeah, don't forget to preshrink the 2" strips....we don't want them distorting due sitting in the hot sun. Mike Welch Mike W/Kolbers: Get a Kolb Manual for any model Kolb from the old Kolb Aircraft. If you don't have one, I'll scan mine and send it to you when I get home next week. Homer Kolb recommended the use of polyester dacron trim tape for gap seals. I can't remember 2 or 3 inch tape. Tape is cemented to the trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of the aileron and flap with Polytak. Then the tape is processed with Polybrush and Polyspray. The finish tape is not heat shrunk. The sun will not shrink or loosen polyester dacron fabric finishing tape. If done according to instructions the gap seal will last a very long time. The gap seal on my MKIII is over 20 years old and has more than 3,200 flight hours on it. Book binding tape is a temporary fix. I find it easier to fit and predrill the hinge rivet lines before covering the wings and applying the gap seal. After painting is finished, then the hinges are permanently installed. john h mkIII Sevierville, Tennessee ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:24 PM PST US From: "Ron @ KFHU" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: "Hypethetically" Malcolm; As another not one of the great speller this far out from the sun, I do find that a spell checker is a great helper in posting on the internet. From what I gather just about every mail program has an embedded spell checker. So the question and suggestion is why not let the computer help you out with it, it will make your communications much better. Sometimes I think that there are some people that intentionally want to misspell so as to establish their genuineness with the common man. Well it may be cute for a short time, and that's about it. Not a criticism merely an opinion; worth what you pay for it. Ron @ KFXE do not archive =================================== ---- Malcolm Brubaker wrote: ============ my first kolb was a firestar KXP I bout it from Homer it was one of the factory built demo planes all the guys flewher she had the 7 rib wing 447 and no N number. that was then, NOW most would tell you its not a good idea, but last summer we sold Dick Rayhills FS11 with no n# for $7K . Curently you will not find a plane for sale on My web site that has no N# contrary to what you mite read about me in resent posts. the hole N# and UL thing will alwase be a topic of great debate. BTW I will be posting a nice low time MK3 extra with a jab 2200 in a couple days. Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker Michigan Sport Pilot Repair http://michigansportpilotrepair.com LSRM-A, PPC, WS Great Sails - Sailmaker for Ultralight & Light Sport (989)513-3022 ________________________________ From: FIRESTARII Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 5:40 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: "Hypethetically" Education is a relative term and is subject to the standards set forth by the judging party. Hence a brain surgeon is well versed on the human brain but would be relatively ignorant in a discussion with a proctologist! Never the less they could have a meaningful discussion about HMO's and frivolous law suits and mutually enjoy the various different prospectives. One might even argue that the brain surgeon and proctologist, both doctors, view the same person from opposite ends! :D The same argument could be made about aviation safety. Is it safe to do a snap roll on take off??? The answer is both yes and no, neither one is necessarily correct. If a newbie sport pilot tries it, it is reasonable to call it unsafe however, if Shaun Tucker were to do it nobody would call it unreasonably dangerous or foolish! Also what exactly is a safe, properly registered EAB airplane any how? Who knows? One FSDO's answer frequently varies quite a lot from another. What makes an EAB airworthy...the DAR and the paper work not necessarily the airplane. My friend has flown some "Certificated" "Real" airplanes that were far less physically airworthy than a non-certificated EAB's. What makes an airplane airworthy??? The paper work not the airplane. Is it legal to fly an airplane out of annual, YES. Is it legal to fly an airplane with broken parts, yes! Is it legal to fly through class B airspace without a transponder, YES! Why, because of paperwork, if paperwork is all in order then all these things become not only legal but safe if executed properly. As for the discussion taking place on a public, open forum....You hit the nail on the head of one of the major, major problems with aviation! If an individual has a question or situation that falls outside of what most consider the norm, who can he or she discuss it with? Most just bury it or hide it or pretend it never happened out of fear of false accusations/assumptions by others. That being the case more often then not, how then as aviators, are we to learn as well as teach others! I opened this thread for "My friend" because if the question/thought crossed his mind then I find it entirely likely this is not the first time the issue has come up! Perhaps if we can discuss it for what it is then rather than calling foul...we can all learn a little something and be safer and better educated in the end!!!!! -------- Low and Slow FireStar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.co -Matt Dralle, List ====== -- Ron @ KFHU ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:30 PM PST US From: "Ron @ KFHU" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: "Hypethetically" kolb related Woops and here I was mentioning that you ought to use a spell checker. So you are aware that your spelling stinks, are you now saying that you are misspelling intentionally to call attention to yourself? That is pretty much the definition of a troll, something that is illegal in some countries and in fact not acceptable almost everywhere else. Ron @ KFXE do not archive. =========================== ---- Malcolm Brubaker wrote: ============ last week i had my chops busted for what john called not kolb related and unlawful activety?? flying fat ultralites? it was bothersome to me but I just blew him off .I dont know why he picked two sentencesfrom all I had to say and just bust my chops fact is there is a core group that oftenget after people here and I think most of it is uncalled for you can tell they like to do this when they alwase throw the grammer and spelling remarks and just plane argue with people for sport. Gneraly this group is better than some of the other 14 groups I am on Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker Michigan Sport Pilot Repair http://michigansportpilotrepair.com LSRM-A, PPC, WS Great Sails - Sailmaker for Ultralight & Light Sport (989)513-3022 ________________________________ From: David Kulp Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 5:20 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: "Hypethetically" Low and Slot Firestar II, I was referring to the little winky, winky link that was a cartoon about "grammar police." which was sent by Thate with the Hypothetical subject. It's neither Kolb related nor interesting, and it's not a matter if whose "way" it is, it's a matter of the rules of the forum. Most of us get that; there have been some who have a problem understanding, so relax and unwad your pants. And his winks creep me out, too. It's like he's saying, "Aren't I cute?" and I stifle myself from responding as I'd like to... Dave Kulp Bethlehem, PA FireFly 11DMK On 5/7/2012 3:19 PM, FIRESTARII wrote: > > How is this not Kolb related [Shocked] The entire thread was based on a Kolb question? [Crying or Very sad] frankly I like the little smiley faces :D As far as lights and not getting it, not accurate. The only part I don't get is why all you "Men" are getting your undies in a bunch over a simple question? I bet a discussion over Sunday morning coffe results in a near fist fight! the only part I don't get is why so many people think that their way is the only way and that there is only one correct answer for any given situation :( I have flown with and worked with people like that my whole life. they fly like they are sky gods and then when they make a mistake it's never ever their fault. There is always an excuse, turbulence, crosswinds or airplane problems. never once does it occur to them that it may possibly be pilot error and if it does they find a reason to blame somebody else. It's people like this who get into arguments on the tarmack with guys who don! 't! > call every leg in the pattern on a perfect VFR day. then blame the other guy because he messed up their pattern and they had to go around because he didn't follow local procedures. Ugh this is starting to sound like a bunch of privat pilot students who think they are airline pilots because they just soloed. > I know these type of sky gods because I deal with them all the time. true I may not get it but that's why I asked! I fully realize I have much to learn but the ticket in my pocket also says ATP, ME-CFII, with type ratings on the back. so for those or you who think I am a fool go right ahead! I was not given those ratings, I earned them and I am going into my 24 year of flying. I have been around the pattern a few times. I have paid dues far higher than some on this forum and continue to fly professionally in some very high proformance aircraft. So Boo Whoo if ya don't like what I have to say! > > -------- > Low and Slow FireStar II > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372566#372566 > > >================== -- Ron @ KFHU ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:49 PM PST US From: "Ron @ KFHU" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sad day Sorry to hear it Pat. Stuff like that or similar is the the future to all of us in turn. Ron @ KFXE do not archive ======================================== ---- Pat Ladd wrote: ============ Hi all, with all the good news of various listers getting their planes into the air I am sorry to say that one is is heading in the other direction. I am grounded. An old back injury, originally caused by carrying a glider wing back in the 70`s has finally bitten me in the backside. Now although I can fly, I dare not chance it by pushing and pulling the plane on the ground, carrying fuel and doing all the twisting and turning involved in manhandling and maintaining the Xtra. I solo`d in a Grunau glider in 1965 ended flying a 19 metre wingspan Jantar.. I have flown more than 50 different planes including gliders, microlights, hang gliders and `real` planes`. I have talked myself into some really nice stuff, a couple of T 6`s, `Crazy Horse` Mustang at Kissimee, a Jet Provost, Tiger Moth, Jackaroo ( a sort of Tiggy with a lid on) A jet fighter (I have forgotten the type) down in the Keys somewhere.. I solo`d in ultralights in a Quicksilver. Not the plane flying now but a real stick and string machine with little winglets attached to the wing tips which dragged a wingtip round when you wanted to turn. I have flown a couple of ultralight amphibians. One on Lake Wales and one in Quiberon Bay off the coast of France Altogether I have met some interesting people and thoroughly enjoyed my flying, even the heartstopping moments when things go quiet up front. I almost got ingested by a Japanese Airliner while I was sitting in my glider fat, happy and lost at 5000 ft agl while he was stacking to line up for Heathrow. I know it was Japanese because I could read it on the fuselage as he went by. I suppose I have had a good innings. Except for a few years when I went sailing I have flown every year since `65. I shall be 83 in August and I had expected to have another 3 or 4 years flying but it is not to be. The doctor said " Let me get this right. You have bought a wheelchair and you have a ``Blue Badge` (In the UK this entitles you to park your car in stupid places, on bends with double yellow lines, and probably not pay in car parks) And you are arguing about flying a microlight. Have a bit of common sense". The doc. hasn`t actualy withdrawn my medical flying license (You need one to be legal over here) but he did point out that it was pretty stupid and the pain in my back and legs backed him up. So the Xtra is up for sale with a Jabi 2200 and only about 90 hours. I hope she goes to a good home. I shall go on being a member of the list for a while. reading about other peoples flying is next best to doing it yourself. Cheers Pat -- Ron @ KFHU ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.