Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:38 AM - Re: MKIII accident back in March (Pat Ladd)
2. 01:57 AM - Re: MKIII accident back in March (Pat Ladd)
3. 04:43 AM - Re: MKIII accident back in March (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
4. 05:03 AM - Re: MKIII accident back in March (Gary Aman)
5. 05:49 AM - Re: MKIII accident back in March (John Hauck)
6. 05:58 AM - Re: MKIII accident back in March (John Hauck)
7. 06:11 AM - Re: Test Flight (John Hauck)
8. 07:06 AM - Re: Re: Test Flight (Michael Welch)
9. 10:10 AM - Re: Test Flight (Thom Riddle)
10. 11:34 AM - Re: MKIII accident back in March (kinne russ)
11. 02:11 PM - Re: MKIII accident back in March (Dana Hague)
12. 02:14 PM - Re: MKIII accident back in March (The Kuffels)
13. 02:14 PM - Twinstar MK II W+ B solved (Lee Morgan)
14. 03:48 PM - Re: MKIII accident back in March (Pat Ladd)
15. 03:54 PM - Re: MKIII accident back in March (Pat Ladd)
16. 04:20 PM - Re: MKIII accident back in March (pcking)
17. 04:30 PM - Re: MKIII accident back in March (kinne russ)
18. 07:46 PM - Re: Cheap covering job (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII accident back in March |
I imagine he was wishing he had bought a Rotax 912 instead of a
Jabiru.>>
Naughty. Naughty!. My solicitors will commence the libel suite
forthwith.
You may have to defend your statement in court.
Cheers
Pat
Xtra with Jabi (but you can buy it if you like)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII accident back in March |
The pilot deployed the airplane's parachute, and the airplane settled
into the trees.
The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he
couldn't make the runway?>>
Same question the other way round. How far out was he if he had enough
height to deploy and develop the parachute and still land in atree.
Anyone know how much height loss there is between pulling the chute and
it becoming useful?
I remember in my gliding days watching a fairly new pilot who had got
too low trying to make it back to the field. We watched with interest
as he sank and it was obvious that he was not going to make it over the
surrounding tall hedge. Suddenly the guy dived out of sight and we
decided that he had landed in the next field.
The tension relaxed and then the guy reappeared just clearing the hedge
before plopping down very untidily on the airfield.
All the theory and sums say that is the wrong thing to do. You cannot
regain height that you have thrown away otherwise you would have a
perpetual motion machine. Nevertheless in this case it worked.
Stranger things, Horatio.....
Pat
-Dana
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII accident back in March |
That's not even fair to say things like that about an engine you don't use
, It could be the mechanic/Owner self induced issue
How would You like it if someone else said something like that when JW went
in
I'm not trying to start a rant here just looking at it from two perspective
s
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Thu, May 24, 2012 8:48 pm
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: MKIII accident back in March
The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he couldn't
ake the runway?
-Dana
olks:
I imagine he was wishing he had bought a Rotax 912 instead of a Jabiru.
john h
kIII
itus, Alabama
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII accident back in March |
Cold John,real cold
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Thu, May 24, 2012 8:48 pm
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: MKIII accident back in March
The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he couldn'
t
make the runway?
-Dana
Folks:
I imagine he was wishing he had bought a Rotax 912 instead of a Jabiru.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 5
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| Subject: | MKIII accident back in March |
That's not even fair to say things like that about an engine you don't use,
It could be the mechanic/Owner self induced issue
How would You like it ifsomeone else said something like that when JW went
in
I'm not trying to start a rant here just looking at it from two perspectives
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
Lighten up a little, Ellery.
My comment was made in jest.
My good friend John Williamson was killed 4 years ago today. RIP, Brother.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 6
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| Subject: | MKIII accident back in March |
On Behalf Of Gary Aman
Cold John,real cold
Hopefully, you all will recover from my small attempt at humor.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 7
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" Shut down the engine and discovered the fuel pump is leaking and will have
to be replaced "
Folks:
Should have indicated the fuel pump that failed on the 912ULS is the engine
driven pump. Nothing more than a Pierberg automotive pump, but Lockwood
wants 167.84 for the pump and nearly 45.00 for the gaskets and spacer.
Maybe I should have bought a Jabiru. ;-)
john h
mkIII - 3,131.1 hours
912ULS - 562.6 hours
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Test Flight |
>
> "Maybe I should have bought a Jabiru". ;-)
>
> john h
> mkIII - 3,131.1 hours
> 912ULS - 562.6 hours
Now, THAT is humor!!
Mike
Message 9
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Most of the parts on a Jabiru that need periodic replacement, are auto parts.
Examples:
coils (mags)
distributors/caps/rotors
starter
valves and seats
pistons
rings
pushrods
connecting rods (I think)
mechanical fuel pump
are automotive parts whose auto brand and p/n are known and published.
The cost (including labor) of a top overhaul - at 1,000 hour intervals, for the
4 cylinder Jabiru typically is about $1,000 (~60% of which is labor). The major
overhaul (2,000 hours) is about double that. The 120hp 6 cylinder is about
50% higher.
Yes, there have been quite a number of Jabiru engines reaching TBO with proper
and regular maintenance, so the TBO numbers are realistic if maintained and operated
properly.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373906#373906
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII accident back in March |
Pat
Could it not have been that the glider pilot dived, got into
ground-effect to get more speed with less drag; then popped up over the
hedge?
Risky and I'm sure unnerving but it could work. Maybe did?
Russ
On May 25, 2012, at 4:56 AM, Pat Ladd wrote:
> The pilot deployed the airplane's parachute, and the airplane settled
into the trees.
> The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he
couldn't make the runway?>>
>
> Same question the other way round. How far out was he if he had enough
height to deploy and develop the parachute and still land in atree.
Anyone know how much height loss there is between pulling the chute and
it becoming useful?
>
> I remember in my gliding days watching a fairly new pilot who had got
too low trying to make it back to the field. We watched with interest
as he sank and it was obvious that he was not going to make it over the
surrounding tall hedge. Suddenly the guy dived out of sight and we
decided that he had landed in the next field.
> The tension relaxed and then the guy reappeared just clearing the
hedge before plopping down very untidily on the airfield.
> All the theory and sums say that is the wrong thing to do. You cannot
regain height that you have thrown away otherwise you would have a
perpetual motion machine. Nevertheless in this case it worked.
> Stranger things, Horatio.....
>
> Pat
>
>
> -Dana
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII accident back in March |
Actually a not uncommon glider technique... come in low and fast. A glider
can glide a long way at ground level if it comes in fast, slowly bleeding
speed off, and if timed right, still have enough speed [kinetic energy] to
convert back into altitude [potential energy]. Not even particularly risky
if you know what you're doing.
I used to do something similar in my T-Craft, fly low and fast over the
water just offshore. knowing that if my engine quit I had enough speed to
zoom up and have enough altitude to shoot a landing on the beach. Of
course it doesn't work in a slow draggy airplane like a Kolb...
-Dana
At 02:33 PM 5/25/2012, kinne russ wrote:
>Pat
>Could it not have been that the glider pilot dived, got into ground-effect
>to get more speed with less drag; then popped up over the hedge?
>Risky and I'm sure unnerving but it could work. Maybe did?
>Russ
>
>On May 25, 2012, at 4:56 AM, Pat Ladd wrote:
>
>>The pilot deployed the airplane's parachute, and the airplane settled
>>into the trees.
>>The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he
>>couldn't make the runway?>>
>>
>>Same question the other way round. How far out was he if he had enough
>>height to deploy and develop the parachute and still land in atree.
>>Anyone know how much height loss there is between pulling the chute and
>>it becoming useful?
>>
>>I remember in my gliding days watching a fairly new pilot who had got too
>>low trying to make it back to the field. We watched with interest as he
>>sank and it was obvious that he was not going to make it over the
>>surrounding tall hedge. Suddenly the guy dived out of sight and we
>>decided that he had landed in the next field.
>>The tension relaxed and then the guy reappeared just clearing the hedge
>>before plopping down very untidily on the airfield.
>>All the theory and sums say that is the wrong thing to do. You cannot
>>regain height that you have thrown away otherwise you would have a
>>perpetual motion machine. Nevertheless in this case it worked.
>>Stranger things, Horatio.....
>>
>>Pat
>>
>>
>>-Dana
>>
>>
>>
>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
--
Some people have a large circle of friends, while others have only friends
that they like.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII accident back in March |
<< Could it not have been that the glider pilot dived, got into
ground-effect to get more speed with less drag; then popped up over the
hedge? >>
This is exactly the maneuver described by a CFI-G many years ago in
Soaring magazine, I believe.
Tom Kuffel
Do not archive.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Twinstar MK II W+ B solved |
I finally figured out why my weight and balance was not coming out correct.
I am ashamed to say that I happened to notice a bulge in the tarp that was
over my engine and that bulge turned out to be about two gallons of water
hanging behind the wing. This was making my calculations show a slightly
tail heavy plane, now without the water, I come in at 35% with one person
and at 25% with two people. I could still use something from a Twinstar
manual that states that this is the correct range in case I am asked where I
got the numbers from for my airworthiness certificate.
thanks,
Lee..
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII accident back in March |
got into ground-effect to get more speed with less drag;..
Could be. it was certainly accidental. I don`t think any of us at that
stage would have dreamed up an explanation like that.
Pat
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII accident back in March |
Actually a not uncommon glider technique... come in low and fast.>>
Yep, I have done it myself in a 19 metre Jantar full of water. If you
pull up and dump the ballast at the same time it is most impressive.
I don`t think it would have worked in a Grunau when the guy was crawling
in at minimum sink. I think the fact that he got away with it surprised
the pilot as much as it did the watchiing club members who thought that
they were going to have to go on a long walking retrieve .
Could happen I suppose.
Pat
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII accident back in March |
Soaring magazine carried an article many moons ago that proved that
flying at max l/d, adjusted for headwind gave the pilot the longest
glide. Lower efficiency at higher speed, even in ground effect, did not
result in more distance. That's with a high efficiency sailplane wing.
The Kolb wing loses efficiency faster at speed. The struts generate more
drag. It's not going to work.
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Ladd
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MKIII accident back in March
Actually a not uncommon glider technique... come in low and fast.>>
Yep, I have done it myself in a 19 metre Jantar full of water. If you
pull up and dump the ballast at the same time it is most impressive.
I don`t think it would have worked in a Grunau when the guy was
crawling in at minimum sink. I think the fact that he got away with it
surprised the pilot as much as it did the watchiing club members who
thought that they were going to have to go on a long walking retrieve .
Could happen I suppose.
Pat
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII accident back in March |
Dana
Good point. The owner's manual for the Beech Staggerwing says if the
engine quits, immediately zoom up 500'! Only possible in a VERY clean
and fast aircraft.
Russ
On May 25, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
> Actually a not uncommon glider technique... come in low and fast. A
glider can glide a long way at ground level if it comes in fast, slowly
bleeding speed off, and if timed right, still have enough speed [kinetic
energy] to convert back into altitude [potential energy]. Not even
particularly risky if you know what you're doing.
>
> I used to do something similar in my T-Craft, fly low and fast over
the water just offshore. knowing that if my engine quit I had enough
speed to zoom up and have enough altitude to shoot a landing on the
beach. Of course it doesn't work in a slow draggy airplane like a
Kolb...
>
> -Dana
>
>
>
> At 02:33 PM 5/25/2012, kinne russ wrote:
>> Pat
>> Could it not have been that the glider pilot dived, got into
ground-effect to get more speed with less drag; then popped up over the
hedge?
>> Risky and I'm sure unnerving but it could work. Maybe did?
>> Russ
>>
>> On May 25, 2012, at 4:56 AM, Pat Ladd wrote:
>>
>>> The pilot deployed the airplane's parachute, and the airplane
settled into the trees.
>>> The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he
couldn't make the runway?>>
>>>
>>> Same question the other way round. How far out was he if he had
enough height to deploy and develop the parachute and still land in
atree. Anyone know how much height loss there is between pulling the
chute and it becoming useful?
>>>
>>> I remember in my gliding days watching a fairly new pilot who had
got too low trying to make it back to the field. We watched with
interest as he sank and it was obvious that he was not going to make it
over the surrounding tall hedge. Suddenly the guy dived out of sight and
we decided that he had landed in the next field.
>>> The tension relaxed and then the guy reappeared just clearing the
hedge before plopping down very untidily on the airfield.
>>> All the theory and sums say that is the wrong thing to do. You
cannot regain height that you have thrown away otherwise you would have
a perpetual motion machine. Nevertheless in this case it worked.
>>> Stranger things, Horatio.....
>>>
>>> Pat
>>>
>>>
>>> -Dana
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
> --
> Some people have a large circle of friends, while others have only
friends that they like.
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Cheap covering job |
Jeremy,
I know a fella that uses regular hardware store 'Contact Cement' to glue
the fabric on his homebuilt. Works well for him. I used Poly Tak on my
Kolb.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 5/24/2012 5:14:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
1planeguy@kilocharlie.us writes:
What would work good for a glue to attach this to wood?
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