Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:37 AM - Twinstar MK II W+ B solved (Lee Morgan)
2. 09:15 AM - Re: Twinstar MK II W+ B solved (cristalclear13)
3. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: Twinstar MK II W+ B solved (John Hauck)
4. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Twinstar MK II W+ B solved (Gary Aman)
5. 03:42 PM - Re: Twinstar MK II W+ B solved (Dennis Souder)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Twinstar MK II W+ B solved |
Ellery,
Your right,
I said I was ashamed, But I am still looking for a copy of the page in the
Twinstar Mk II manual that gives the acceptable CG range.
thanks,
Lee..
_____________________________________
Time: 05:16:57 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Twinstar MK II W+ B solved
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com>
i am Just thinking out loud so you plan to fly the airplane with that plast
ic on it? would it be ok to pile a bunch of items on the airplane some whe
re and leave em there during the W&B process" NOT"
any weight is weight suppose to do a W&B with only what you would normally
have on the airplane during flight operations
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Morgan <lmorgan100@charter.net>
Sent: Fri, May 25, 2012 5:14 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Twinstar MK II W+ B solved
finally figured out why my weight and balance was not coming out correct.
am ashamed to say that I happened to notice a bulge in the tarp that was
ver my engine and that bulge turned out to be about two gallons of water
anging behind the wing. This was making my calculations show a slightly
ail heavy plane, now without the water, I come in at 35% with one person
nd at 25% with two people. I could still use something from a Twinstar
anual that states that this is the correct range in case I am asked where I
ot the numbers from for my airworthiness certificate.
hanks,
ee..
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Twinstar MK II W+ B solved |
lmorgan100(at)charter.net wrote:
> I finally figured out why my weight and balance was not coming out correct.
> I am ashamed to say that I happened to notice a bulge in the tarp that was
> over my engine and that bulge turned out to be about two gallons of water
> hanging behind the wing. This was making my calculations show a slightly
> tail heavy plane, now without the water, I come in at 35% with one person
> and at 25% with two people. I could still use something from a Twinstar
> manual that states that this is the correct range in case I am asked where I
> got the numbers from for my airworthiness certificate.
> thanks,
> Lee..
Lee, I haven't had time to look up all my original measurements and calculations,
but I do recall someone telling me that the CG should be 20-30% of the wing.
My datum was 69.75" forward of the main wheels and so I set my CG at 80-89"
aft of the datum.
I'm glad you found your issue. Let me know if you need any more info.
Sorry for the delay.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374041#374041
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Twinstar MK II W+ B solved |
> I finally figured out why my weight and balance was not coming out
correct.
> Lee..
Lee/Kolbers:
In my humble opinion and experience building and flying Kolbs for many
years, problems with getting a Kolb aircraft into a flyable approved cg
range is more paper than airplane.
In the beginning no weight and balance form was used with the 1984
Ultrastar. Build it close to what the plans called for and it would be
within cg and fly like a bird. In fact, Homer Kolb said if you wanted to
check the cg, hang the Ultrastar from a rafter with the rope attached at the
main spar carry through of the fuselage. If it balanced, it was good to go.
I never tried that.
1987 Firestar was built and flown with the same instructions from Homer
Kolb.
1992 MKIII had a weight and balance formula. Needed it to pass the
airworthiness inspection for homebuilt experimental classification. We
worked on that problem for quite a while, then gave up and used an "M-1
pencil" to complete the form to make the MKIII flyable. The numbers kept
saying we had a severe aft cg problem.
One way to demonstrate that I did not have an aft cg problem, I installed
and flew a 12 lb Maule Tundra Tail Wheel on my MKIII. Did I have an aft cg
problem? Nope.
Should everyone who builds and flies Kolbs use the same weight and balance
check that I do? Would not say or recommend one way or the other. I flew
the MKIII with that 12 lb tail wheel, 150 lbs of fuel and 125 lbs of cargo
behind the cg, for about 5 years. That includes 5 or 6 flights to the West
Coast and Lakeland, plus a couple to Oshkosh. I think I am good to go.
Still flying with a 7 lb Maule 6" solid rubber tail wheel. Works great.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Twinstar MK II W+ B solved |
You certainly can fly a Kolb relatively safely with it way aft CG wise.But
you cannot say it will fly the same as it would if it were in range.All you
have to do is try it both ways,preferably in rough air,and you can make yo
ur own decision.
G.Aman Mk3 Jabiru 2200A 700 hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Sun, May 27, 2012 1:34 pm
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Twinstar MK II W+ B solved
> I finally figured out why my weight and balance was not coming out
correct.
> Lee..
Lee/Kolbers:
In my humble opinion and experience building and flying Kolbs for many
years, problems with getting a Kolb aircraft into a flyable approved cg
range is more paper than airplane.
In the beginning no weight and balance form was used with the 1984
Ultrastar. Build it close to what the plans called for and it would be
within cg and fly like a bird. In fact, Homer Kolb said if you wanted to
check the cg, hang the Ultrastar from a rafter with the rope attached at th
e
main spar carry through of the fuselage. If it balanced, it was good to go
.
I never tried that.
1987 Firestar was built and flown with the same instructions from Homer
Kolb.
1992 MKIII had a weight and balance formula. Needed it to pass the
airworthiness inspection for homebuilt experimental classification. We
worked on that problem for quite a while, then gave up and used an "M-1
pencil" to complete the form to make the MKIII flyable. The numbers kept
saying we had a severe aft cg problem.
One way to demonstrate that I did not have an aft cg problem, I installed
and flew a 12 lb Maule Tundra Tail Wheel on my MKIII. Did I have an aft cg
problem? Nope.
Should everyone who builds and flies Kolbs use the same weight and balance
check that I do? Would not say or recommend one way or the other. I flew
the MKIII with that 12 lb tail wheel, 150 lbs of fuel and 125 lbs of cargo
behind the cg, for about 5 years. That includes 5 or 6 flights to the West
Coast and Lakeland, plus a couple to Oshkosh. I think I am good to go.
Still flying with a 7 lb Maule 6" solid rubber tail wheel. Works great.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Twinstar MK II W+ B solved |
I found the following in the archives. It may or may not help for what you
are looking for, but it was the determination way back then.
Dennis
To Kolb Builders,
When we installed the 912 we simply added some weight (about (20 lb.) in the
nose and went flying. We then started removing the weight gradually and
wound up eventually removing it all. We thus wound up with a C.G. at 40%
with our flight instructor (who weighs about 170 lb.). To our amazement the
Mark-III still stalls fairly well. This is how we are currently flying our
own Mark-III.
The Mark-III has been certified in England and they tested the C.G. as far
back as 39% and found that it still had adequate stall characteristics.
At 35-37%, all Kolb aircraft have good stall characteristics.
Even though we know the C.G. can be further back than 35%, we will be
officially leaving it at 35%, the margin is to absorb a certain amount of
scale error.
Eventually we will be exploring even more aft C.G. conditions. Our large
chord wing and large tail volume, would seem to help in handling a more aft
C.G. condition.
If anyone has any further questions on C.G. please feel free to ask.
Sincerely,
Dennis L. Souder
President, Kolb Aircraft
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lee Morgan
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 8:37 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Twinstar MK II W+ B solved
Ellery,
Your right,
I said I was ashamed, But I am still looking for a copy of the page in the
Twinstar Mk II manual that gives the acceptable CG range.
thanks,
Lee..
_____________________________________
Time: 05:16:57 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Twinstar MK II W+ B solved
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com>
i am Just thinking out loud so you plan to fly the airplane with that plast
ic on it? would it be ok to pile a bunch of items on the airplane some whe
re and leave em there during the W&B process" NOT"
any weight is weight suppose to do a W&B with only what you would normally
have on the airplane during flight operations
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Morgan <lmorgan100@charter.net>
Sent: Fri, May 25, 2012 5:14 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Twinstar MK II W+ B solved
finally figured out why my weight and balance was not coming out correct.
am ashamed to say that I happened to notice a bulge in the tarp that was
ver my engine and that bulge turned out to be about two gallons of water
anging behind the wing. This was making my calculations show a slightly ail
heavy plane, now without the water, I come in at 35% with one person nd at
25% with two people. I could still use something from a Twinstar anual that
states that this is the correct range in case I am asked where I ot the
numbers from for my airworthiness certificate.
hanks,
ee..
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|