---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/29/12: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:07 AM - Wing Strut drag... (Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det) 2. 06:18 AM - CORRECTION: Wing Strut drag... (Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det) 3. 06:30 AM - Re: Wing Strut drag... (John Hauck) 4. 06:33 AM - Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det) 5. 06:36 AM - Re: CORRECTION: Wing Strut drag... (Michael Welch) 6. 07:00 AM - Re: Wing Strut drag... (GARY JINDRA) 7. 11:29 AM - Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (cristalclear13) 8. 01:44 PM - Re: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (Rick Neilsen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:08 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Wing Strut drag... From: "Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det" So as not to 'high-jack' an earlier email re:March crash, there was a comment about the Kolb wing strut drag which I am curious about hence the new thread. For those who have installed fairings on your wing/lift struts, what are the noticeable benefits (or detractors...) of flight/handling qualities before and after the fairings were installed? What material did you use (Alum or PVC) for your struts? Personally fabricated or purchased from vendor? Any final observations... are the fairings worth installing or not? Thanks in advance! Jack Lockamy Key West Kolb M3C/582/Floats ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:35 AM PST US Subject: CORRECTION: Kolb-List: Wing Strut drag... From: "Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det" Corrected sentence below to read: What material did you use (Alum or PVC) for your FAIRINGS? Sorry for any confusion. Jack in Key West -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 9:05 Subject: Kolb-List: Wing Strut drag... So as not to 'high-jack' an earlier email re:March crash, there was a comment about the Kolb wing strut drag which I am curious about hence the new thread. For those who have installed fairings on your wing/lift struts, what are the noticeable benefits (or detractors...) of flight/handling qualities before and after the fairings were installed? What material did you use (Alum or PVC) for your struts? Personally fabricated or purchased from vendor? Any final observations... are the fairings worth installing or not? Thanks in advance! Jack Lockamy Key West Kolb M3C/582/Floats ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:59 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Wing Strut drag... For those who have installed fairings on your wing/lift struts, what are the noticeable benefits (or detractors...) of flight/handling qualities before and after the fairings were installed? What material did you use (Alum or PVC) for your struts? Personally fabricated or purchased from vendor? Any final observations... are the fairings worth installing or not? Jack Lockamy Jack L/Folks: Streamlined lift struts improve glide, reduce drag and vibration. The best struts are streamlined 4130, but 20 years ago the price was already out of sight. I replaced the round aluminum lift struts on my Firestar with streamlined 4130, in 1987. The improved glide was responsible finding the money to install brakes. Had difficulty getting the Firestar stopped on my short grass strip. My MKIII is equipped with extruded aluminum lift struts included in the early kits. They work great. There are many different ways to streamline lift struts. I am sure others will chime in and share their method. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:09 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kolb-List: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question From: "Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det" Hi Lee, I may be about to 'stir up a hornet's nest' here but I think it's a risk worth taking in order to answer your question. The kit manufacturer (Kolb Aircraft, Inc) sets the RECOMMENDED max gross/allowable weight for each model aircraft kit they produce. YOU, as the manufacturer/builder of said kit can set the max gross/allowable weight of YOUR aircraft to whatever weight you feel comfortable with. Kolb recommends 750 lbs as the max weight. This is a limit they RECOMMEND and with that comes many variables (engineering calculations, liability concerns, etc.). That said, there is NOTHING to stop YOU from making your max weight limit on YOUR aircraft 800, 825, 850 or even 1000 LBS! What do YOU feel comfortable with knowing what the factory recommends? If it were my aircraft and I built it per the plans without deviation, I would not hesitate to increase the max gross weight to 850 lbs given that most manufacturers use a 10-15% margin of error/caution in their favor mostly for liability reasons. Let the firestorm begin.... Jack in Key West -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lee Morgan Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 8:13 Subject: Kolb-List: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question Thanks everyone for answering my W+B questions, I have another question. I am filling out the W + B paperwork for the airworthiness certificate, in the specs for the Kolb Twinstar MK II, it says total weight limit is 750 LBS. mine comes in at 814 lbs with two 170 lb people and 10 gallons of gas. what do I do with this ? thanks Lee.. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:16 AM PST US From: Michael Welch Subject: Re: CORRECTION: Kolb-List: Wing Strut drag... Jack, Polycarbonate (Lexan) Mike Welch On May 29, 2012, at 8:17 AM, Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det wrote: > Corrected sentence below to read: > > What material did you use (Alum or PVC) for your FAIRINGS? > > Sorry for any confusion. > > Jack in Key West > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 9:05 > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Wing Strut drag... > > So as not to 'high-jack' an earlier email re:March crash, there was a comment about the Kolb wing strut drag which I am curious about hence the new thread. > > For those who have installed fairings on your wing/lift struts, what are the noticeable benefits (or detractors...) of flight/handling qualities before and after the fairings were installed? What material did you use (Alum or PVC) for your struts? Personally fabricated or purchased from vendor? Any final observations... are the fairings worth installing or not? > > Thanks in advance! > > Jack Lockamy > Key West > Kolb M3C/582/Floats > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:59 AM PST US From: GARY JINDRA Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing Strut drag... Kolb has a plastic fairing that goes over the round tube and is rivited on. It is =0Awhat I used on my Mark 3=0A-=0AGary Jindra=0AMark 3 =0A56 hours =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: John Hauck =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tue, May 29, 2012 9:37 :46 AM=0ASubject: RE: Kolb-List: Wing Strut drag...=0A=0A--> Kolb-List mess age posted by: "John Hauck" =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFor those who have installed fairings on your wing/lift struts, what are the=0Anotice able benefits (or detractors...) of flight/handling qualities before=0Aand after the fairings were installed?- What material did you use (Alum or=0A PVC) for your struts?- Personally fabricated or purchased from vendor?- Any=0Afinal observations... are the fairings worth installing or not?=0A =0AJack Lockamy=0A=0A=0A=0AJack L/Folks:=0A=0AStreamlined lift struts impro ve glide, reduce drag and vibration.=0A=0AThe best struts are streamlined 4 130, but 20 years ago the price was already=0Aout of sight.=0A=0AI replaced the round aluminum lift struts on my Firestar with streamlined=0A4130, in 1987.- The improved glide was responsible finding the money to=0Ainstall brakes.- Had difficulty getting the Firestar stopped on my short=0Agrass strip.=0A=0AMy MKIII is equipped with extruded aluminum lift struts include d in the=0Aearly kits.- They work great.=0A=0AThere are many different wa ys to streamline lift struts.- I am sure others=0Awill chime in and share -======================== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:29:26 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question From: "cristalclear13" lmorgan100(at)charter.net wrote: > Thanks everyone for answering my W+B questions, I have another question. > I am filling out the W + B paperwork for the airworthiness certificate, in > the specs for the Kolb Twinstar MK II, it says total weight limit is 750 > LBS. mine comes in at 814 lbs with two 170 lb people and 10 gallons of gas. > what do I do with this ? > thanks > Lee.. Lee, My Mark II would also weigh that much with those specs. On my W&B I put that I have a max weight of 800lbs. On the Most Aft Loading I use 170lb pilot and 10 gallons of gas, on the Most Fwd Loading section I use 170lb pilot, 170lb passenger but less than 10 gallons to make it under the 800lb limit, then on the Flight Test Loading I put 195lb pilot and 6 gallons of fuel. I have flown it with at least, if not a little more than, 850 lbs though and had no issues. There should be a place on your W&B that says whether you got the data from the manufacturer or from your own data. You can put that you got it from your own data and as long as you test it out during your testing period, the kit manufacturer's weight limit does not come into the picture (as Jack and Thom also mentioned). -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 Private Pilot Aug 2008 ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008 Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374200#374200 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question From: Rick Neilsen Lee I'm not a big fan of betting that the factory is wrong on the weight limits. There are a lot of factors involved here. Do you know how well the plane was built? As a plane gets older some of the metal parts may fatigue and loose strength. Flying heavy and in rough air can increase the rate of fatigue. Some times corrosion can weaken parts. My plane spent six months in Florida. I couldn't believe how much corrosion developed in that salt air and it was hangered. Your MKII is a older model with a weaker air frame than the MKIII so don't confuse the weight limits set for the MKIII. You also have to use common sense that if you exceed the recommended limits you should only do it in calm air. Yes you have the right to set the weight limits as you see fit. Just be sure, if you choose to fly much beyond the recommended limit, leave a record of what you did with someone on the ground so we can learn what the absolute limit was. Again worth what you paid for it. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 2:28 PM, cristalclear13 < cristalclearwaters@gmail.com> wrote: > cristalclearwaters@gmail.com> > > > lmorgan100(at)charter.net wrote: > > Thanks everyone for answering my W+B questions, I have another question. > > I am filling out the W + B paperwork for the airworthiness certificate, > in > > the specs for the Kolb Twinstar MK II, it says total weight limit is 750 > > LBS. mine comes in at 814 lbs with two 170 lb people and 10 gallons of > gas. > > what do I do with this ? > > thanks > > Lee.. > > > Lee, > My Mark II would also weigh that much with those specs. On my W&B I put > that I have a max weight of 800lbs. On the Most Aft Loading I use 170lb > pilot and 10 gallons of gas, on the Most Fwd Loading section I use 170lb > pilot, 170lb passenger but less than 10 gallons to make it under the 800lb > limit, then on the Flight Test Loading I put 195lb pilot and 6 gallons of > fuel. > > I have flown it with at least, if not a little more than, 850 lbs though > and had no issues. > > There should be a place on your W&B that says whether you got the data > from the manufacturer or from your own data. You can put that you got it > from your own data and as long as you test it out during your testing > period, the kit manufacturer's weight limit does not come into the picture > (as Jack and Thom also mentioned). > > -------- > Cristal Waters > Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 > Private Pilot Aug 2008 > ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008 > Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374200#374200 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.