Kolb-List Digest Archive

Wed 05/30/12


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 08:06 AM - Mark III Classic wing/boom incidence angles (Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det)
     2. 08:27 AM - Re: Mark III Classic wing/boom incidence angles (Michael Welch)
     3. 11:02 AM - Re: Mark III Classic wing/boom incidence angles (Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det)
     4. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (Pat Ladd)
     5. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (John Hauck)
     6. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (Pat Ladd)
     7. 12:41 PM - Flight West 2012 (John Hauck)
     8. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (John Hauck)
     9. 01:04 PM - Re: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (Phil)
    10. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (John Hauck)
    11. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (kinne russ)
    12. 03:29 PM - Re: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (Dana Hague)
    13. 04:27 PM - Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (Thom Riddle)
    14. 06:13 PM - Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (Richard Pike)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 08:06:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Mark III Classic wing/boom incidence angles
    From: "Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det"
    <jack.lockamy@navy.mil> On the Mark III Classic, with the wing incidence angle set at 9 degrees... can someone tell me what the tail boom angle is? Need this info as I prepare to install floats on my M3C. Re-installing my own wings and taking the measurements/readings would be a MAJOR undertaking (if not impossible) considering the area/space my plane is currently confined to. Any help by someone able to take those angle readings on their M3C and passing the info along would be MOST APPRECIATED!!! I spoke with Brian at KOLB but they only have a M3X on hand and the measurements are different. Thanks in advance! Jack Lockamy Key West, FL 2009 Kolb M3C (N33040) ------------------------------- Ex-owner/builder Sonerai II Ex-owner/builder Sonex TD Ex-owner/builder RV-7A Ex-50% owner Cirrus SR-20


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:27:26 AM PST US
    From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Mark III Classic wing/boom incidence angles
    Jack, The tail boom is 6.0 degrees. If you are calling the wing's incidence "positive", then the tail boom is negative 6.0 degrees, BTW, the motor mount in this configuration is 0.0 degrees. Mike Welch On May 30, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det wrote: > On the Mark III Classic, with the wing incidence angle set at 9 degrees... can someone tell me what the tail boom angle is? > > Need this info as I prepare to install floats on my M3C. Re-installing my own wings and taking the measurements/readings would be a MAJOR undertaking (if not impossible) considering the area/space my plane is currently confined to. Any help by someone able to take those angle readings on their M3C and passing the info along would be MOST APPRECIATED!!! I spoke with Brian at KOLB but they only have a M3X on hand and the measurements are different. > > Thanks in advance! > > Jack Lockamy > Key West, FL > 2009 Kolb M3C (N33040) > ------------------------------- > Ex-owner/builder Sonerai II > Ex-owner/builder Sonex TD > Ex-owner/builder RV-7A > Ex-50% owner Cirrus SR-20


    Message 3


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    Time: 11:02:37 AM PST US
    Subject: Mark III Classic wing/boom incidence angles
    From: "Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det"
    <jack.lockamy@navy.mil> Perfect! Just what we needed. Thanks Mike... Jack DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Welch Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 11:25 Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic wing/boom incidence angles Jack, The tail boom is 6.0 degrees. If you are calling the wing's incidence "positive", then the tail boom is negative 6.0 degrees, BTW, the motor mount in this configuration is 0.0 degrees. Mike Welch On May 30, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det wrote: > On the Mark III Classic, with the wing incidence angle set at 9 degrees... can someone tell me what the tail boom angle is? > > Need this info as I prepare to install floats on my M3C. Re-installing my own wings and taking the measurements/readings would be a MAJOR undertaking (if not impossible) considering the area/space my plane is currently confined to. Any help by someone able to take those angle readings on their M3C and passing the info along would be MOST APPRECIATED!!! I spoke with Brian at KOLB but they only have a M3X on hand and the measurements are different. > > Thanks in advance! > > Jack Lockamy > Key West, FL > 2009 Kolb M3C (N33040) > ------------------------------- > Ex-owner/builder Sonerai II > Ex-owner/builder Sonex TD > Ex-owner/builder RV-7A > Ex-50% owner Cirrus SR-20


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:13:35 AM PST US
    From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question
    I'm not a big fan of betting that the factory is wrong on the weight limits>> Hi, I guess that in view of the litigious nature of American Society you all carry insurance. What does the insurer say about flying outside the manufacturers limits? I would have expected them to use that as a reason for not paying out on a claim. Cheers Pat


    Message 5


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    Time: 11:32:58 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question
    What does the insurer say about flying outside the manufacturers limits? I would have expected them to use that as a reason for not paying out on a claim. Pat The builder is the manufacturer. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:05:07 PM PST US
    From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question
    The builder is the manufacturer.>> Hi John, Hmmm. I would have thought that only pushes the liability back one step. What is the situation if the manufacturer, or the builder as manufacturer produces a plane which is obviously not airworthy. How do you get insurance? Does the insurance company not apply any yardstick at all? How do they know without inspection or testing if it will fly well, badly, or at all? I understand that unlike the UK there is no such thing as an approved design in the US. Who applies what standards in that case? Curious Pat


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:41:02 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Flight West 2012
    Hi Folks: Making final plans and preparation for my annual flight West. Will be departing Gantt International Airport in one to two weeks, depending on wind and weather between here and the Rock House near Burns Junction, Oregon. Normal route is 1,876 sm. Flight time is 25.0 hours at 75 mph ground speed. Fuel consumption will be 125 gal. At 5.50 to 6.00 a gal, that's between 687.50 and 750.00 for the flight West, one way. Is it worth it? You bet!!! I always enjoy it, not matter how tough it gets. I also try to remember that normal folks don't get to experience a flight like this at any price. Route of flight is: -Gantt International Airport, Alabama -M40 Aberdeen, MS -KTUA Tunica, MS -KHBZ Heber Springs, AR -KEOS Neosho, MO (RON (remain overnight)) -KEQA El Dorado, KS -KGBD Great Bend, KS -KGLD Goodland, KS -KAKO Akron, CO (RON) -KLAR Laramie, WY -KRWL Rawlins, WY -KRKS Rock Springs, WY -KBMC Brigham City, UT (RON) -06U Jackpot, NV -U91 Grasmere, ID -The Rock House, OR Where I spend the night is tentative depending on me, wind, weather, and the airplane. I have flown this route both ways many times. It is very boring until about Akron, CO, when I have the Rockies in sight. Nearly always windy between Great Bend, KS and Brigham City, UT. Hopefully, the wind will be on my back. Getting excited about making another cross continent flight and seeing my old friends, and meeting new ones. Give me a shout if you are near my route of flight and want to have lunch or a cup of coffee. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama 334-567-6280 home 334-315-2621 cell


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:47:51 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question
    What is the situation if the manufacturer, or the builder as manufacturer produces a plane which is obviously not airworthy. How do you get insurance? Does the insurance company not apply any yardstick at all? How do they know without inspection or testing if it will fly well, badly, or at all? I understand that unlike the UK there is no such thing as an approved design in the US. Who applies what standards in that case? Curious Pat Patrick L/Gang: In the amateur experimental/homebuilt class we must have our aircraft inspected and issued an "airworthiness certificate", in addition to a 40 test flight period. "How do I get insurance?" Obviously, I pay through the nose for it. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:04:50 PM PST US
    From: Phil <phactor9@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question
    Speaking of insurance... - 1. Who uses what insurance company? 2. What type of insurance do you subscribe to, or recommend? 3. What class bird? FAR-103? Other? - Phil H. FF11-4-00076 --- On Wed, 5/30/12, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless quest ion What is the situation if the manufacturer, or the builder as manufacturer produces a plane which is obviously not airworthy. How do you get insurance ? Does the insurance company not apply any yardstick at all? How do they know without inspection or testing if it will fly well, badly, or at all? I understand that unlike the UK there is no such thing as an approved design in the US. Who applies what standards in that case? Curious Pat Patrick L/Gang: In the amateur experimental/homebuilt class we must have our aircraft inspected and issued an "airworthiness certificate", in addition to a 40 test flight period. "How do I get insurance?"- Obviously, I pay through the nose for it. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama le, List Admin.


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:16:05 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question
    1. Who uses what insurance company? 2. What type of insurance do you subscribe to, or recommend? 3. What class bird? FAR-103? Other? Phil H. Phil H/Gang: 1. Falcon, indorsed by EAA. 2. Hull, moving and stationary. Enough to replace my airplane should I total it. Plus, 1,000,000.00 liability. 3. Experimental/homebuilt. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:25:49 PM PST US
    From: kinne russ <russk50@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question
    Pat I think it's safe to say we all TRY to carry insurance. But I'm also sure the ins co's in the UK are similar to ours here in the Colonies -- their attitude is to reject claims if at all possible, on most any excuse, then say "Thanks for the premiums, have a nice day, goodbye" Russ On May 30, 2012, at 2:13 PM, Pat Ladd wrote: > I'm not a big fan of betting that the factory is wrong on the weight limits>> > > Hi, > I guess that in view of the litigious nature of American Society you all carry insurance. > What does the insurer say about flying outside the manufacturers limits? I would have expected them to use that as a reason for not paying out on a claim. > > > Cheers > > Pat > > > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:29:26 PM PST US
    From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question
    At 04:03 PM 5/30/2012, Phil wrote: >Speaking of insurance... > >1. Who uses what insurance company? >2. What type of insurance do you subscribe to, or recommend? >3. What class bird? FAR-103? Other? I get insurance (liability only) from First Flight via USUA's group plan for my Part 103 Ultrastar. -Dana -- We are sorry, you have reached an imaginary number. Please rotate your phone ninety degrees and try again.


    Message 13


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    Time: 04:27:46 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question
    From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
    I carry liability and "not-in-flight" hull insurance which covers damage or loss to my Slingshot while on the ground except during take-off and landing. I have a policy with Global Aerospace which was obtained through EAA insurance affiliate, Falcon Insurance. Not paying for in-flight hull insurance saves me about $500-600/year. I figure if I crash it in flight the airplane repairs will be the least of my problems. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 Truth is what stands the test of experience. - Albert Einstein Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374331#374331


    Message 14


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    Time: 06:13:10 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question
    From: "Richard Pike" <richard@bcchapel.org>
    pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: > The builder is the manufacturer.>> > > > What is the situation if the manufacturer, or the builder as manufacturer > produces a plane which is obviously not airworthy. How do you get insurance? > Does the insurance company not apply any yardstick at all? How do they know without inspection or testing if it will fly well, badly, or at all? I > understand that unlike the UK there is no such thing as an approved design > in the US. Who applies what standards in that case? > Curious > Pat Years ago I talked to a FAA man in that department about how they went about determining how to issue an Airworthiness Certificate to a problematic design. His answer was to the effect that you can design anything you want, but then you have to build it according to approved methods and practices. Assuming you build it well, but it is still a problematic design, he said they can issue you an Airworthiness Certificate with limitations that precludes you flying it more than 2' off the ground, or anywhere other than immediately above the runway. In other words, if they don't think it will fly, they can restrict your flying to a minimum. Never seen such a situation, but it makes sense to me - -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374336#374336




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