---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/31/12: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:44 AM - no hits om the extra ?? (Malcolm Brubaker) 2. 05:12 AM - Re: no hits om the extra ?? (Daniel Myers) 3. 05:15 AM - Re: no hits om the extra ?? (william sullivan) 4. 05:56 AM - Re: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (Pat Ladd) 5. 06:02 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 05/30/12 (James, Ken) 6. 06:07 AM - Re: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (Pat Ladd) 7. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 05/30/12 (Phil) 8. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question (Pat Ladd) 9. 08:21 AM - Re: no hits om the extra ?? (Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det) 10. 08:50 AM - Any Old Sandbar Will Do (John Hauck) 11. 10:20 AM - Re: Any Old Sandbar Will Do (Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det) 12. 03:41 PM - Re: no hits om the extra ?? (kinne russ) 13. 04:22 PM - Experimental in USA vs Europe and other parts of the world (Thom Riddle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:31 AM PST US From: Malcolm Brubaker Subject: Kolb-List: no hits om the extra ?? can-some -body look at my barnstormers add and give a sugestion why we have not had any hits?=0A=0A=0AMalcolm & Jeanne Brubaker =0AMichigan Sport Pilot Repair =0Ahttp://michigansportpilotrepair.com =0ALSRM-A, PPC, WS=0AG reat Sails - Sailmaker =0Afor Ultralight & Light Sport=0A(989)513-3022 =0A - =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Richard Pi ke =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:12 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and a ke" =0A=0A=0Apj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote:=0A> The builder is the manufacturer.>>=0A> =0A> =0A> What is the situation if the manufacturer, or the builder as manufacturer =0A> produces a plane which is obviously not airworthy. How do you get insurance? =0A> Does the insurance company not apply any yardstick at all? How do they know without inspectio n or testing if it will fly well, badly, or at all? I =0A> understand that unlike the UK there is no such thing as an approved design =0A> in the US. Who applies what standards in that case?=0A> Curious=0A> Pat=0A=0A=0AYears ago I talked to a FAA man in that department about how they went about dete rmining how to issue an Airworthiness Certificate to a problematic design. His answer was to the effect that you can design anything you want, but the n you have to build it according to approved methods and practices. Assumin g you build it well, but it is still a problematic design, he said they can issue you an Airworthiness Certificate with limitations that precludes you flying it more than 2' off the ground, or anywhere other than immediately above the runway. =0A=0AIn other words, if they don't think it will fly, th ey can restrict your flying to a minimum.=0A=0ANever seen such a situation, but it makes sense to me -=0A=0A--------=0ARichard Pike=0AKolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)=0Arichard (at) bcchapel(dot)org=0AKingsport, TN 3TN0=0ANow fa ith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. =0AHebrews 11:1=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://foru ============= ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: no hits om the extra ?? From: Daniel Myers Looks good to me. Just wait it out Thanks, Daniel Myers Cell: 407 920 7700 SouthEastAmphibs.com On May 31, 2012, at 7:43 AM, Malcolm Brubaker wrote: > can some body look at my barnstormers add and give a sugestion why we hav e not had any hits? > > Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker > Michigan Sport Pilot Repair > http://michigansportpilotrepair.com > LSRM-A, PPC, WS > Great Sails - Sailmaker > for Ultralight & Light Sport > (989)513-3022 > > > > > > From: Richard Pike > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:12 PM > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question > > > > pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: > > The builder is the manufacturer.>> > > > > > > What is the situation if the manufacturer, or the builder as manufacture r > > produces a plane which is obviously not airworthy. How do you get insura nce? > > Does the insurance company not apply any yardstick at all? How do they k now without inspection or testing if it will fly well, badly, or at all? I > > understand that unlike the UK there is no such thing as an approved desi gn > > in the US. Who applies what standards in that case? > > Curious > > Pat > > > Years ago I talked to a FAA man in that department about how they went abo ut determining how to issue an Airworthiness Certificate to a problematic de sign. His answer was to the effect that you can design anything you want, bu t then you have to build it according to approved methods and practices. Ass uming you build it well, but it is still a problematic design, he said they c an issue you an Airworthiness Certificate with limitations that precludes yo u flying it more than 2' off the ground, or anywhere other than immediately a bove the runway. > > In other words, if they don't think it will fly, they can restrict your fl ying to a minimum. > > Never seen such a situation, but it makes sense to me - > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. > Hebrews 11:1 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374336#374336http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:22 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: no hits om the extra ?? - The only thing I see is that it's the highest priced one on the list. - Not an unreasonable amount, but maybe just because there are others rig ht now. --- On Thu, 5/31/12, Daniel Myers wrote: From: Daniel Myers Subject: Re: Kolb-List: no hits om the extra ?? Looks good to me. Just wait it out- Thanks,Daniel MyersCell: 407 920 7700SouthEastAmphibs.com On May 31, 2012, at 7:43 AM, Malcolm Brubaker wrote : can-some -body look at my barnstormers add and give a sugestion why we have not had any hits?-Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker Michigan Sport Pilot Repair =0Ahttp://michigansportpilotrepair.com=0ALSRM-A , PPC, WS Great Sails - Sailmaker for Ultralight & Light Sport (989)513-3022=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A- From: Richard Pike To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:12 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: > The builder is the manufacturer.>> > > > What is the situation if the manufacturer, or the builder as manufacturer > produces a plane which is obviously not airworthy. How do you get insuran ce? > Does the insurance company not apply any yardstick at all? How do they kn ow without inspection or testing if it will fly well, badly, or at all? I > understand that unlike the UK there is no such thing as an approved desig n > in the US. Who applies what standards in that case? > Curious > Pat Years ago I talked to a FAA man in that department about how they went abou t determining how to issue an Airworthiness Certificate to a=0A problematic design. His answer was to the effect that you can design anything you want , but then you have to build it according to approved methods and practices . Assuming you build it well, but it is still a problematic design, he said they can issue you an Airworthiness Certificate with limitations that prec ludes you flying it more than 2' off the ground, or anywhere other than imm ediately above the runway. In other words, if they don't think it will fly, they can restrict your fly ing to a minimum. Never seen such a situation, but it makes sense to me - -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online=0A here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374336#374336http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:41 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question limitations that precludes you flying it more than 2' off the ground, or anywhere other than immediately above the runway. >> Yeah! I guess that would do it as far as the Airworthiness Cert is concerned but would any insurance company touch it? You may roll it into a ball from 2 feet but suppose you flew it into a crowd of people or parked aircraft at 2 feet. Pat. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:25 AM PST US From: "James, Ken" Subject: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 05/30/12 Hi all Long story short, I'm looking for a link to a builder's page that had a jig set up for doing hinges for ailerons and rudder/vert stab etc. Thanks Ken James MK III extra ================== IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail contains information from the Berks Career & Technology Center that may be privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this communication is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and permanently delete this message including all attachments. Thank you. ================== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:07 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question Hi Thom, obviously you can get insurance flying a Kolb as you can point to a well tried design and the Insurers can asses the risk from their records. What happens if you put a jet engine on it, turn it into a twin, redesign and fit a twin fin and rudder.? Even if you are the manufacturer and can set what parameters you like you may have no aerodesign or engineering skill whatever. I would have thought the insurers wouldn`t touch it with a barge pole. Then you fly it into someone, or their plane. . You could be in Sing Sing for the rest of your natural. Certainly in Bankruptcy Court. Shudder! Pat ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:20 AM PST US From: Phil Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 05/30/12 I pretty much followed page 10 of the Firefly plans. http://phactor.com/HingeDrilling.jpg http://phactor.com/HingeJig.jpg http://phactor.com/HingeJig2.jpg http://phactor.com/HingeJig3.jpg - Phil H FF11-4-00076 --- On Thu, 5/31/12, James, Ken wrote: From: James, Ken Subject: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 05/30/12 Hi all Long story short, I'm looking for a link to a builder's page that had a jig set up for doing hinges for ailerons and rudder/vert stab etc. Thanks Ken James MK III extra ================== IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This communication is intended solely for the use o f the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail contains i nformation from the Berks Career & Technology Center that may be privileged , confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the rea der of this communication is not the intended recipient, you are hereby not ified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communicatio n is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and permanently delete this message including all attachments. Thank you. ================== le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:50 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question their attitude is to reject claims if at all possible>> Hi Russ, I am sure that is true but speak as I find. When I flew into the barn through starting the engine when the throttle was open the insurance Company sent an assessor .It was obvious that the starboard wing had to be rebuilt. There was some discussion over possible twisting of the cage due to the backwards movement of the wing. This was decided in consultation with the Inspector and the cage was condemned. This meant a total strip of instruments etc and rebuild of the whole front end. Including the car I managed to drive the nose cone into I think that the bill was in excess of 20,000 pounds. The insurers paid up with no quibble. On the other hand my partner, when we had the Aerostar, was always worried because if the two of us took off with a full fuel load we were above the certified weight. The problem was not that the plane wouldn`t handle it but because if we took off overweight we were no longer classed as a `microlight` and we were into a whole new ballgame. We were a Light Aircraft and therefore outside our insured category He was afraid that if we crunched it was a fairly simple matter to back calculate what our take off weight had been and that would be used to let the insurers of the hook. Incidentally I employed a couple of guys from the local carwash to wash my plane yesterday. Just to smarten it up before the prospective buyers start lining up to view it. There are hundreds of teams of men all over the UK who have moved into disused garage sites and set up car washes. Of course the garages had sumps already built to in to stop oil and muck going down the drains. Electricity and water were laid on. Just waiting for someone to find a use for them. These guys are usually Polish. I know one lot who are Lithuanians and the guys I used are, would you believe it from Iraq. They all do a fast and reasonably priced job.It is not easy as they are in the cold and wet all day, usually no resting facilities or shelter if it pours. I am sure the income tax is being wangled as no one knows how much money they take in a day.. Probably all sorts of `elf and safety issues being ignored as well. We have several million unemployed in the UK but I have not found a team of car washers who are English. Makes you think. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:12 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kolb-List: no hits om the extra ?? From: "Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det" Sorry to be blunt... but you asked.... IMHO the plane is OVER PRICED! I recently purchased a completed, 2009 Mark III Classic, air worthiness certificated, N-numbered, (w/Rotax 582 Gray head), brand new Warp drive 3-bladed prop, MATCO hydraulic disk brakes, Ameri-King ELT, ICOM A-6 VHF handheld transceiver, Sportys 2-place portable intercom, excellent logs both airframe and engine with only 11 hours TTAE... for $5,000 (on the same Barnstormers.com website)! Jack in Key West -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm Brubaker Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:44 Subject: Kolb-List: no hits om the extra ?? can some body look at my barnstormers add and give a sugestion why we have not had any hits? Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker Michigan Sport Pilot Repair http://michigansportpilotrepair.com LSRM-A, PPC, WS Great Sails - Sailmaker for Ultralight & Light Sport (989)513-3022 From: Richard Pike Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:12 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: > The builder is the manufacturer.>> > > > What is the situation if the manufacturer, or the builder as manufacturer > produces a plane which is obviously not airworthy. How do you get insurance? > Does the insurance company not apply any yardstick at all? How do they know without inspection or testing if it will fly well, badly, or at all? I > understand that unlike the UK there is no such thing as an approved design > in the US. Who applies what standards in that case? > Curious > Pat Years ago I talked to a FAA man in that department about how they went about determining how to issue an Airworthiness Certificate to a problematic design. His answer was to the effect that you can design anything you want, but then you have to build it according to approved methods and practices. Assuming you build it well, but it is still a problematic design, he said they can issue you an Airworthiness Certificate with limitations that precludes you flying it more than 2' off the ground, or anywhere other than immediately above the runway. In other words, if they don't think it will fly, they can restrict your flying to a minimum. Never seen such a situation, but it makes sense to me - -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online here: ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:50 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Any Old Sandbar Will Do On a beautiful winter day, any old sand bar will do for an exciting landing spot on the Tallapoosa River between Wetumpka and Montgomery, Alabama, 2010. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:09 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Any Old Sandbar Will Do From: "Lockamy, Jack CIV Atlantic Targets Marine Ops, AD.5.3.3 / Key West Det" John, When I first saw your photos, I thought to myself... a set of Puddlejumper floats would look REAL NICE on that bird sitting next to a sandbar! Jack in Key West DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:48 Subject: Kolb-List: Any Old Sandbar Will Do On a beautiful winter day, any old sand bar will do for an exciting landing spot on the Tallapoosa River between Wetumpka and Montgomery, Alabama, 2010. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:29 PM PST US From: kinne russ Subject: Re: Kolb-List: no hits om the extra ?? One reason might be that there are no Kolbs! -- (is this Kolb-related?) Nice website tho; I'm surprised no hits Good luck. Russ K On May 31, 2012, at 7:43 AM, Malcolm Brubaker wrote: > can some body look at my barnstormers add and give a sugestion why we have not had any hits? > > Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker > Michigan Sport Pilot Repair > http://michigansportpilotrepair.com > LSRM-A, PPC, WS > Great Sails - Sailmaker > for Ultralight & Light Sport > (989)513-3022 > > > > > > From: Richard Pike > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:12 PM > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: twinstar MK II thanks and another endless question > > > > pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: > > The builder is the manufacturer.>> > > > > > > What is the situation if the manufacturer, or the builder as manufacturer > > produces a plane which is obviously not airworthy. How do you get insurance? > > Does the insurance company not apply any yardstick at all? How do they know without inspection or testing if it will fly well, badly, or at all? I > > understand that unlike the UK there is no such thing as an approved design > > in the US. Who applies what standards in that case? > > Curious > > Pat > > > Years ago I talked to a FAA man in that department about how they went about determining how to issue an Airworthiness Certificate to a problematic design. His answer was to the effect that you can design anything you want, but then you have to build it according to approved methods and practices. Assuming you build it well, but it is still a problematic design, he said they can issue you an Airworthiness Certificate with limitations that precludes you flying it more than 2' off the ground, or anywhere other than immediately above the runway. > > In other words, if they don't think it will fly, they can restrict your flying to a minimum. > > Never seen such a situation, but it makes sense to me - > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. > Hebrews 11:1 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374336#374336http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:44 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Experimental in USA vs Europe and other parts of the world From: "Thom Riddle" This is not strictly Kolb related, but should be of interest to all builders and pilots of experimental aircraft. http://macsblog.com/2012/05/european-rules-coming-to-homebuilts/ -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 Truth is what stands the test of experience. - Albert Einstein Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374438#374438 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.