Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:06 AM - Re: Slipping turn (Thom Riddle)
2. 07:47 AM - Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps (Richard Pike)
3. 08:14 AM - Re: Slipping turn (Richard Girard)
4. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps (Beauford)
5. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps ()
6. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps ()
7. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps (Richard Girard)
8. 12:49 PM - Re: Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps (Herb Gayheart)
9. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps (Beauford)
10. 02:08 PM - Re: Slipping turn (GALEN SHIRLEY)
11. 05:31 PM - Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps (Richard Pike)
12. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps ()
13. 07:09 PM - Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps (tombaisley)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Slipping turn |
I always do a high short approach and slip a good bit but not in turns. I like
my turns coordinated but once on final I slip with full flaps to get down really
fast. Of course the Slingshot with short wings, full flaps, and idle power
sinks pretty fast without slipping.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376304#376304
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps |
Called a friend of mine yesterday who has a Flightstar with a 447 on it, and he
said the only way he got it to behave and run cool was to install a Dial-A-Jet
on it, and run a cable to the cockpit.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376328#376328
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Slipping turn |
I'm not sure why your friend thinks a slipping turn is illegitimate, but a
slipping turn is only, after all, a badly coordinated turn. I've been known
to make badly coordinated turns to the left or right even when I'm not on
approach. :-} About the only caveat I can think of is that your ASI might
read a little off with the pitot oblique to the airstream, but that can be
handled by keeping the nose a little lower than you would for a yaw string
centered turn.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:39 PM, joepilot503 <joepilot503@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> Does anybody out there with a Kolb do slipping turns from downwind to
> landing? I was doing them in a j-3 and want to try it in my firestar but a
> friend of mine didn't think it was a wise thing to do, or to be a
> legitimate maneuver. any feedback appreciated.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376280#376280
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps |
---------------------------------------------------
Called a friend of mine yesterday who has a Flightstar with a 447 on it, and
he said the only way he got it to behave and run cool was to install a
Dial-A-Jet on it, and run a cable to the cockpit.
-----------------------------------
Brother Pike:
That is interesting... Thought those things were just for snowmobiles.
Do you have any information about how many hours he has run
it and whether he has had any carbon build-up problems with it?
The way I understand the DAJ set-up is that the engine is baseline jetted to
run on the
lean side and the DAJ then dumps extra fuel into the carb as required to
compensate for the lean condition, temperature, altitude, etc.
I know that enriching the mixture will make it run cooler, but I also have
vivid recollections of the carbon problems which stuck the rings on my
toy once before. Am a little bit carbon-shy, but very interested in what
your friend has done and how long he has been using the gizmo...
Thankee for the reply, sir...
Wary eye on the Gulf beauford
FF-076
Brandon, FL
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps |
> Called a friend of mine yesterday who has a Flightstar with a 447 on it, and
he said the only way he got it to behave and run cool was to install a Dial-A-Jet
on it, and run a cable to the cockpit.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
Kolbers:
I realize this is ancient history, but it is all the personal info I have with
the 447, which I put 755.0 hours on two of them from 1987 to 1990 in my original
Firestar.
Through experience I learned to leave the engine exactly like it came from the
factory. What worked for me was to adjust the prop pitch so the engine would
barely touch the red line for max continuous rpm, which I think was 6,500 rpm.
When I did this the EGT/CHT operated in the Green.
I found it very easy to chase one's tail trying to "tune" a 447. I believe the
447 was set up at the factory to operate in a 70F day from 0 to 1,500 feet ASL.
With the engine remaining at factory tune, I was able to climb to 10,000 feet ASL.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Burns Junction, OR
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps |
> I know that enriching the mixture will make it run cooler, but I also have
> vivid recollections of the carbon problems which stuck the rings on my
> toy once before.
>
> Wary eye on the Gulf beauford
Kolbers:
I had good luck with the old point ignition, single carb 447, other than the normal
operating problems of failed wrist pin bearings (which were later improved),
loose coils, and difficulty keeping the points in adjustment caused by normal
wear (which were upgraded to CDI ing).
Have always been an advocate of not babying two stroke engines and operating at
recommended cruise rpm which is 5,800 rpm, if I remember correctly. I didn't
say abuse two stroke engines, but make them work to keep crank cases clear of
excess oil and reduce carbon buildup in the upper end.
I found there are a lot of "little things" that can affect the operation and reliability
of a two stroke, many not logical or readily understandable.
Having the opportunity to fly with a 4 stroke since 1994, I have a much better
reliablity record. No engine failures in more than 3,000.0 hours.
john h
mkIII
Burns Junction, OR
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps |
Roger Lee, Rotax guru on their Matronics list has maintained that the
biggest problem with Rotax engines is their owners. I've set up a few new
447's now and they run great right out of the box WHEN you set up the prop
per Rotax instructions, which as John H said is to just get the prop to
touch max RPM in level flight. For the 447 this is 6800 rpm and setting it
for about 6400 to 6500 static will get you right there. The only, and I
honestly think only two adjustments that need to made to a new 447 are fan
belt tension, and, depending on your field elevation, the clip on the
needle. Once the break in is accomplished, the fan belt is adjusted and the
clip is reset, if needed, they run perfectly. The last one I did was on a
Northwing trike. I finished the break in just after sun down and didn't get
started to test fly until about 2:00 pm the next day. The temps were
already in the high 100's headed for 112 that day, iirc, and the little
Maverick trike broke ground in about 200 and I had pattern altitude long
before I was abreast of my back yard (2300 feet from the departure end of
17).
You have a little leeway in the prop adjustment to find the sweet spot for
CHT and EGT. If you CHT's are on the hot side decrease the prop pitch and
it should drop a bit. It it's the EGT's that are troublesome, add pitch.
Pretty much what is in the Installation manual, and it seems to work just
fine.
Rick Girard
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 11:13 AM, <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> > I know that enriching the mixture will make it run cooler, but I also
> have
> > vivid recollections of the carbon problems which stuck the rings on my
> > toy once before.
> >
> > Wary eye on the Gulf beauford
>
>
> Kolbers:
>
> I had good luck with the old point ignition, single carb 447, other than
> the normal operating problems of failed wrist pin bearings (which were
> later improved), loose coils, and difficulty keeping the points in
> adjustment caused by normal wear (which were upgraded to CDI ing).
>
> Have always been an advocate of not babying two stroke engines and
> operating at recommended cruise rpm which is 5,800 rpm, if I remember
> correctly. I didn't say abuse two stroke engines, but make them work to
> keep crank cases clear of excess oil and reduce carbon buildup in the upper
> end.
>
> I found there are a lot of "little things" that can affect the operation
> and reliability of a two stroke, many not logical or readily understandable.
>
> Having the opportunity to fly with a 4 stroke since 1994, I have a much
> better reliablity record. No engine failures in more than 3,000.0 hours.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Burns Junction, OR
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps |
and don't forget to re torque the heads ....after 1 hour...Herb
At 12:13 PM 6/22/2012, you wrote:
>Roger Lee, Rotax guru on their Matronics list has maintained that
>the biggest problem with Rotax engines is their owners. I've set up
>a few new 447's now and they run great right out of the box WHEN you
>set up the prop per Rotax instructions, which as John H said is to
>just get the prop to touch max RPM in level flight. For the 447 this
>is 6800 rpm and setting it for about 6400 to 6500 static will get
>you right there. The only, and I honestly think only two adjustments
>that need to made to a new 447 are fan belt tension, and, depending
>on your field elevation, the clip on the needle. Once the break in
>is accomplished, the fan belt is adjusted and the clip is reset, if
>needed, they run perfectly. The last one I did was on a Northwing
>trike. I finished the break in just after sun down and didn't get
>started to test fly until about 2:00 pm the next day. The temps were
>already in the high 100's headed for 112 that day, iirc, and the
>little Maverick trike broke ground in about 200 and I had pattern
>altitude long before I was abreast of my back yard (2300 feet from
>the departure end of 17).
>You have a little leeway in the prop adjustment to find the sweet
>spot for CHT and EGT. If you CHT's are on the hot side decrease the
>prop pitch and it should drop a bit. It it's the EGT's that are
>troublesome, add pitch.
>Pretty much what is in the Installation manual, and it seems to work
>just fine.
>
>Rick Girard
>
>On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 11:13 AM,
><<mailto:jhauck@elmore.rr.com>jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
><<mailto:jhauck@elmore.rr.com>jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> > I know that enriching the mixture will make it run cooler, but I also have
> > vivid recollections of the carbon problems which stuck the rings on my
> > toy once before.
> >
> > Wary eye on the Gulf beauford
>
>
>Kolbers:
>
>I had good luck with the old point ignition, single carb 447, other
>than the normal operating problems of failed wrist pin bearings
>(which were later improved), loose coils, and difficulty keeping the
>points in adjustment caused by normal wear (which were upgraded to CDI ing).
>
>Have always been an advocate of not babying two stroke engines and
>operating at recommended cruise rpm which is 5,800 rpm, if I
>remember correctly. I didn't say abuse two stroke engines, but make
>them work to keep crank cases clear of excess oil and reduce carbon
>buildup in the upper end.
>
>I found there are a lot of "little things" that can affect the
>operation and reliability of a two stroke, many not logical or
>readily understandable.
>
>Having the opportunity to fly with a 4 stroke since 1994, I have a
>much better reliablity record. No engine failures in more than 3,000.0 hours.
>
>john h
>mkIII
>Burns Junction, OR
>
>==========
>arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>==========
>http://forums.matronics.com
>==========
>le, List Admin.
>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>==========
>
>
>--
>Zulu Delta
>Mk IIIC
>Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
>It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps |
Rick and John:
Many thanks for your inputs, Gents. My 447 has the original factory
jetting and needle is currently in second notch. The IVO turns 6050 static,
6250 in climb and 6550 WOT level. If I leave it at WOT in climb for more
than a minute, the CHT will go to and through redlines.
At 5800 cruise I am seeing 390 to 400 CHT and EGTs of 1080 and 1140 for the
two cylinders. The plugs have a nice tan color, so I think
the jetting is OK. The crankshaft seals are new, as are the intake and
exhaust gaskets.. I do not suspect leaks.
Based on Rick's input, on the first dry day I will unload the prop to get
6400 static and pull the needle up to see if the EGT's will stay under
control.
If you never hear from me again, you may assume this did not pan out.
monitor the FL obits.
Soggy beauford
FF-076
Brandon, FL
P.S. I agree with guru Roger Lee. (see below).
------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps
Roger Lee, Rotax guru on their Matronics list has maintained that the
biggest problem with Rotax engines is their owners. I've set up a few new
447's now and they run great right out of the box WHEN you set up the prop
per Rotax instructions, which as John H said is to just get the prop to
touch max RPM in level flight. For the 447 this is 6800 rpm and setting it
for about 6400 to 6500 static will get you right there
Rick Girard
Have always been an advocate of not babying two stroke engines and operating
at recommended cruise rpm which is 5,800 rpm, if I remember correctly. I
didn't say abuse two stroke engines, but make them work to keep crank cases
clear of excess oil and reduce carbon buildup in the upper end.
john h
mkIII
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I have a fs 11 and slip on final=2C slip anywhere in the patten to lose alt
itude. The Fs II handles fine in either direction. Like Rick said=2C keep
the nose down to keep airspeed up or you will stall one wing. Galen
Date: Fri=2C 22 Jun 2012 10:14:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Slipping turn
From: aslsa.rng@gmail.com
I'm not sure why your friend thinks a slipping turn is illegitimate=2C but
a slipping turn is only=2C after all=2C a badly coordinated turn. I've been
known to make badly coordinated turns to the left or right even when I'm n
ot on approach. :-} About the only caveat I can think of is that your ASI m
ight read a little off with the pitot oblique to the airstream=2C but that
can be handled by keeping the nose a little lower than you would for a yaw
string centered turn.
Rick Girard
On Thu=2C Jun 21=2C 2012 at 9:39 PM=2C joepilot503 <joepilot503@hotmail.com
> wrote:
Does anybody out there with a Kolb do slipping turns from downwind to landi
ng? I was doing them in a j-3 and want to try it in my firestar but a frie
nd of mine didn't think it was a wise thing to do=2C or to be a legitimate
maneuver. any feedback appreciated.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376280#376280
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le=2C List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Zulu DeltaMk IIICThanks=2C Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps |
My personal experience is that if I set the prop to just bump redline in straight
and level, then the EGT tends to be a bit uncooperative, but that could be
the difference between the IVO and the Warp. Probably the Warp and the IVO respond
differently. So I set the IVO to fall about 150-200 rpm shy of redline in
level flight, and then my EGT stays constant at all rpm's.
Your results may vary, that is why they are called Experimental aircraft...
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376388#376388
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps |
> My personal experience is that if I set the prop to just bump redline in straight
and level, then the EGT tends to be a bit uncooperative, but that could
be the difference between the IVO and the Warp. Probably the Warp and the IVO
respond differently.
> --------
> Richard Pike
Richard P/Folks:
Works for me with Culver two blade wooden prop.
Never flew the 447 with any other.
I still prop all my engines the same way, two or four stroke, for best performance
for me.
john
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rotax 447 propeller recomendation high temps |
I have had much success after trimming my prop from 66" to 62". My CHT are under
400f and my EGT are 1060f @ 5700rpm. For the must part my egt are
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376393#376393
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|