Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:08 AM - Re: Pitot tube placement on a Firestar.... (Thom Riddle)
2. 04:35 AM - Re: Video Montage (Dan Breitigam)
3. 05:06 AM - Re: Re: Video Montage ()
4. 06:10 AM - Re: Pitot tube placement on a Firestar.... (Richard Girard)
5. 07:42 AM - Re: Pitot tube placement on a Firestar.... (David Kulp)
6. 10:03 AM - difference between my altimiter and gps (b young)
7. 01:53 PM - Re: difference between my altimiter and gps (kinne russ)
8. 04:09 PM - Re: Pitot tube placement on a Firestar.... (Brad Nation)
9. 05:51 PM - Re: Pitot tube placement on a Firestar.... (Dana Hague)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot tube placement on a Firestar.... |
My Slingshot (same nose cone as Firestar) has the pitot/static tube mounted below
the nose cone with an extension out about 6" or so ahead of the nose cone tip,
using a flexible hose connection. It works very well there.
The static port alone did not provide accurate airspeed but with that static port
combined with a Tee opening in the static line behind the instrument panel,
the IAS equals TAS at about 3,000-3500' density altitude, my typical summer time
flight conditions. Higher than that it reads low, lower it reads higher than
TAS.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377319#377319
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Video Montage |
Hi John H, Yes, it's Collegedale airport. There are two kolbers that fly around
here and two more at Dallas Bay a few miles away. The folks at Second Chance
tell me you and I have the same soft pack parachute mounted between the wings
and that you helped design it.
It would be great to meet you when you stop in next time. I wish you well with
your return trip!
Dan Breitigam
Collegedale, TN
Original Kolb Twinstar/503
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377320#377320
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Video Montage |
---- Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm@me.com> wrote:
> It would be great to meet you when you stop in next time. I wish you well with
your return trip!
>
> Dan Breitigam
Dan B/Kolbers:
Used to refuel at Dallas Bay, back when the elderly couple were running the FBO,
but that has been many years ago.
In 1991, I came up with the idea of mounting the balistic parachute in the center
section. Worked with John Dunham of 2d Chantz Parachutes on the design. Built
a partial center section, shipped it to John to get the measurements correct.
Only problem I had with the installation was the exit door. Never could
get it to seal permanently, plus the rocket extended above the top of the center
section. Later I got a BRS, who had frangible hair cell plastic sheet (black)
to use for the exit hole. I lowered the rocket 5" which allowed riveting
and sealing with silicone seal. The rocket fires through the plastic. Only
problem with this plastic is UV. Eventually the plastic must be replaced when
it starts cracking.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama (Getting ready to take off for hauck's holler and Gantt International
Airport, Alabama).
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot tube placement on a Firestar.... |
Nick, My Mk IIIC has the 1/2" stick out, smack dab in the middle of the
nose bowl. Ken Holle's Mk IIIX has the pitot mounted under the nose using
this; http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/unheatedptubes4.php ,
although it has been shortened so it only extends about 2" below the bottom
of the nose.
For what it's worth, I've flown both aircraft in 12 to 15 mph crosswinds,
done slips, dives and slow flight and I don't see any difference between
the airspeed readings in either aircraft.
The thing that does seem to make a difference is the static source. Both
aircraft had had the static port simply vented into the cockpit by their
original builders. Once this was corrected by making a simple two rivet
static source that sample outside air, the C has two, one on each side of
the nose the X has one located near the pitot, the ASI on both reads steady
regardless of aircraft orientation.
Rick Girard
On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Nick Cassara <nickc@mtaonline.net> wrote:
> Hello Kolbers,****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> I am wondering where you Firestar pilots have your pitot tubes located. I
> am building the Kolbra prototype kit which has a Firestar noise. The pito
t
> tube was installed straight out the noise and appears to have only stuck
> out about a =BD inch. Based on the recent pitot tube discussion, this
> location does not sound ideal, unless I stick a 6=92=92 or longer tube ou
t in
> to hopefully undisturbed air. So I was wondering where Firestar owners ha
ve
> their pitot tubes mounted? Under the nose seems like a good spot=85?****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks for your thoughts,****
>
> ** **
>
> Nick Cassara****
>
> Palmer Alaska****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot tube placement on a Firestar.... |
Kolbers,
Adjust my data base if it's schewed, but I don't see how a change in
pitch would make a difference. When you pitch up or down, except for
maybe a moment or two before the inertia of the original pitch has been
overcome, your AS is still relative to the air passing as you fly
through it. Your ASI doesn't know if you're flying upward or downward,
only that you're cutting through the air at a certain MPH or KPH. The
only exception I would foresee is if you're slow flying, you're on the
threshold of a stall and your angle of attack is extreme .
Don G. built my FlagFly with the pitot down from the bottom of the nose
cone about 3" and then a right angle with flex tubing taking it about 4"
in front of the nosecone. About the only time the ASI jumps is with a
buffeting crosswind on takeoff or when tossed about by thermals or
unstable air. When I first flew it I had both the ASI on the instrument
panel as well as a Hall's ASI I mounted to the side of the nosecone.
They read the same so I removed the Hall's.
The one instrument that does vary is my MicroTim, a little altimeter. I
got the model with no connection to the pitot, just a little hole in the
housing, and after takeoff it's always a couple of hundred feet
different from my Garmin GPS. With the semi- enclosed cockpit there
apparently is reduced pressure at the instrument panel. I have to be
careful there because a lot of my flying is under the 22 or 19 ceiling
of ABE's airspace so I place my trust in my GPS there.
Hope you all had a great 4th of July celebration. I rode my cycle to
and from a picnic for a couple of hours and the heat and humidity was
brutal. Hoped to fly today, but the H&H is even worse, so I won't
subject myself to that until shade trees are planted in the sky. Next
week's supposed to be more humane...
Dave Kulp
Bethlehem, PA
11DMK
Do not archive
On 7/4/2012 8:48 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
> A lot of planes in this class (not just Kolbs) have the 1/2" stub out
> the front of the nose, with a 6" or so extension joined with a piece
> of flexible tubing. This gets it farther out front but saves it from
> damage if it gets hit.
>
> Put it under the nose and I think you'll get too much variation with
> pitch, unless it's well forward.
>
> -Dana
>
> At 02:13 PM 7/4/2012, Nick Cassara wrote:
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | difference between my altimiter and gps |
The one instrument that does vary is my MicroTim, a little altimeter. I
got the model with no connection to the pitot, just a little hole in the
housing, and after takeoff it's always a couple of hundred feet
different from my Garmin GPS. With the semi- enclosed cockpit there
apparently is reduced pressure at the instrument panel. I have to be
careful there because a lot of my flying is under the 22 or 19 ceiling
of ABE's airspace so I place my trust in my GPS there.
dave and kolbers...
it seems I always have a 150 to 200 ft difference between my altimeter
and gps... the gps reads high... so the last time I flew by an atc, I
explained the difference and asked what altitude my mode c blind encoder
was reporting via the transponder. they replied the exact reading on
my altimeter, best I can figure, is my blind encoder and altimeter
are connected to the same static source, and it is running a bit high in
pressure. the static source is a small tube with a hole drilled through
both sides... maybe a small washer soldered on the tube just before
the holes, has anyone had experience with this problem.
boyd young
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: difference between my altimiter and gps |
FWIW in my limited experience, I've found GPS elevations unreliable,
except for the military units. And found to my surprise a GPS won't read
thru heavy snowfall!
Russ K
On Jul 5, 2012, at 1:02 PM, b young wrote:
> The one instrument that does vary is my MicroTim, a little altimeter.
I got the model with no connection to the pitot, just a little hole in
the housing, and after takeoff it's always a couple of hundred feet
different from my Garmin GPS. With the semi- enclosed cockpit there
apparently is reduced pressure at the instrument panel. I have to be
careful there because a lot of my flying is under the 22 or 19 ceiling
of ABE's airspace so I place my trust in my GPS there.
> dave and kolbers...
>
> it seems I always have a 150 to 200 ft difference between my altimeter
and gps... the gps reads high... so the last time I flew by an atc, I
explained the difference and asked what altitude my mode c blind encoder
was reporting via the transponder. they replied the exact reading on
my altimeter, best I can figure, is my blind encoder and altimeter
are connected to the same static source, and it is running a bit high in
pressure. the static source is a small tube with a hole drilled through
both sides... maybe a small washer soldered on the tube just before
the holes, has anyone had experience with this problem.
>
> boyd young
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot tube placement on a Firestar.... |
It's been awhile, but the last time I checked the altitude accuracy on GPSs w
asn't very accurate or stable. Granted I was using a Garmin V, while sitting
at a stop light the altitude would fluctuate between 5 - 15 feet deference.
Perhaps the algorithms have been improved or it could have been before the m
il spec side of GPS was released to the public.
Brad
On Jul 5, 2012, at 8:41, David Kulp <undoctor@ptd.net> wrote:
> Kolbers,
>
> Adjust my data base if it's schewed, but I don't see how a change in pitch
would make a difference. When you pitch up or down, except for maybe a mom
ent or two before the inertia of the original pitch has been overcome, your A
S is still relative to the air passing as you fly through it. Your ASI does
n't know if you're flying upward or downward, only that you're cutting throu
gh the air at a certain MPH or KPH. The only exception I would foresee is i
f you're slow flying, you're on the threshold of a stall and your angle of a
ttack is extreme .
>
> Don G. built my FlagFly with the pitot down from the bottom of the nose co
ne about 3" and then a right angle with flex tubing taking it about 4" in fr
ont of the nosecone. About the only time the ASI jumps is with a buffeting c
rosswind on takeoff or when tossed about by thermals or unstable air. When I
first flew it I had both the ASI on the instrument panel as well as a Hall'
s ASI I mounted to the side of the nosecone. They read the same so I remov
ed the Hall's.
>
> The one instrument that does vary is my MicroTim, a little altimeter. I g
ot the model with no connection to the pitot, just a little hole in the hous
ing, and after takeoff it's always a couple of hundred feet different from m
y Garmin GPS. With the semi- enclosed cockpit there apparently is reduced p
ressure at the instrument panel. I have to be careful there because a lot o
f my flying is under the 22 or 19 ceiling of ABE's airspace so I place my tr
ust in my GPS there.
>
> Hope you all had a great 4th of July celebration. I rode my cycle to and f
rom a picnic for a couple of hours and the heat and humidity was brutal. Ho
ped to fly today, but the H&H is even worse, so I won't subject myself to th
at until shade trees are planted in the sky. Next week's supposed to be mor
e humane...
>
> Dave Kulp
> Bethlehem, PA
> 11DMK
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> On 7/4/2012 8:48 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
>> A lot of planes in this class (not just Kolbs) have the 1/2" stub out the
front of the nose, with a 6" or so extension joined with a piece of flexibl
e tubing. This gets it farther out front but saves it from damage if it get
s hit.
>>
>> Put it under the nose and I think you'll get too much variation with pitc
h, unless it's well forward.
>>
>> -Dana
>>
>> At 02:13 PM 7/4/2012, Nick Cassara wrote:
>>
>
>
>
==========================
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==========================
=========
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=========
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=========
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot tube placement on a Firestar.... |
At 10:41 AM 7/5/2012, David Kulp wrote:
>Kolbers,
>
>Adjust my data base if it's schewed, but I don't see how a change in pitch
>would make a difference. When you pitch up or down, except for maybe a
>moment or two before the inertia of the original pitch has been overcome,
>your AS is still relative to the air passing as you fly through it. Your
>ASI doesn't know if you're flying upward or downward, only that you're
>cutting through the air at a certain MPH or KPH. The only exception I
>would foresee is if you're slow flying, you're on the threshold of a stall
>and your angle of attack is extreme .
If you have a short pitot tube mounted close under the nose, as AOA
increases the pressure will build up under the nose, and cause a higher
airspeed reading.
-Dana
--
Resist militant "normality" -- A mind is a terrible thing to erase.
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