---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/26/12: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:57 AM - Re: Carb Problem (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 2. 09:16 AM - Re: Carb Problem (pcking) 3. 11:56 AM - Re: Carb Problem (Richard Girard) 4. 12:27 PM - Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations (EricS) 5. 02:08 PM - Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations (EricS) 6. 02:19 PM - Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations (Jack B. Hart) 7. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations (John Hauck) 8. 05:03 PM - Re: Carb Problem (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 9. 08:38 PM - Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations (Richard Pike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Carb Problem From: Ellery Batchelder Jr I have a 912 Rotax ULS 80 Hp on a Kolb MK3Classic and fuel is running out of the vent line on one carb what should I look for to stop this? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:58 AM PST US From: "pcking" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Carb Problem If it's like most carbs, the vent is on the float chamber. Either your float is full of fuel and no longer holding the needle in the seat, or there is a bit of crud under the needle holding it open. I suspect the latter. You probably should clean your tank and lines when you open the carb. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ellery Batchelder Jr To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Carb Problem I have a 912 Rotax ULS 80 Hp on a Kolb MK3Classic and fuel is running out of the vent line on one carb what should I look for to stop this? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:56:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Carb Problem From: Richard Girard Ellery, In addition to checking the floats and needle valve, check to see that all passages from the float chamber to the carb throat are clear. Did the engine sit for awhile? The crud in present day fuel makes a compound that can seal those small, drilled passages like you'd poured epoxy into them. Rick Girard On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Ellery Batchelder Jr wrote: > I have a 912 Rotax ULS 80 Hp on a Kolb MK3Classic and fuel is running out > of the vent line on one carb what should I look for to stop this? > > > * > > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:25 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations From: "EricS" Thanks for your reply, Rick. I don't have any trim controls on my Firestar, though I have considered installing a "ground adjustable" trim tab on the elevator as I have for the rudder and ailerons, or a simple bungie trim system. The elevator control cables have no play in them and all bolts are tight on the tail feathers. One suggestion was to tighten the elevator cable turnbuckle by 1/2 to 1 full turn. I have not tried this yet. There are 3 bolt holes to choose from at the front of the elevator to adjust the angle of incidence and both sides are currently attached in the middle. One of the lower elevator support cables (the cables that can be disconnected to fold up the tail) on the left side was not as tight as the opposite side, so I moved the connection to a different hole. They are now both nearly as tight as a guitar string, but it made no difference. The paint appears to be the original. I will be happy to install counter balance rods on the elevator if necessary. My thought was that maybe something simple in the set-up of my Firestar was off since nobody else has had a problem with elevator flutter. I will take a few pics of the tail when I go to the hangar this afternoon and maybe someone with more Kolb experience will see something obvious that I'm missing. Thanks, Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379259#379259 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:41 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations From: "EricS" Correction: I checked my notes and the suggestion to increase the elevator control cable tension is only 1/4 to 1/2 turn of the turnbuckle. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379271#379271 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:09 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations At 12:00 PM 7/25/12 -0700, you wrote: > >Hello fellow Kolbers, > ...................> >I dialed her in with rudder and aileron trim tabs and she'll fly straight as an arrow, hands off, in calm conditions. But when she gets bounced around in light turbulence, the elevator will occasionally begin to oscillate if I don't keep a firm grip on the stick. It starts slowly and will increase gradually, but I can easily stop it by changing airspeed or pitch. I had a former Firestar pilot and multiple airplane builder fly with me in his Rans to watch and he said the boom tube began flexing - that's not good. The immediate solution has been to never let go of the stick. > Eric, Pitch stability is much like a pendulum of a clock, in that the greater the distance the vertical cg is below the wing and the larger the mass (weight of the aircraft) the more stable the aircraft is in pitch. Each plane will seek to oscillate in pitch at its own natural frequency. As the vertical cg moves forward it puts more load on the nose and this causes the nose to drop. As the speed builds and the cg moves toward the rear more lift is generated and the nose will rise, etc. If your boom tube to cage connection is flexing, I would check out cage and boom tube integrity with in the cage. Pitch stability can be aggravated and corrected by stick input. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:14 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations Correction: I checked my notes and the suggestion to increase the elevator control cable tension is only 1/4 to 1/2 turn of the turnbuckle. Eric S/Kolbers: You have a unique situation. First time I have heard of elevator flutter with any Kolb aircraft, except a fatal accident many years ago that involved a Twinstar with adjustable elevator trim tab that was a stock item on Twinstars. Why they all don't flutter, I do not know. They are all very much unbalanced, hanging from the leading edge, as does the rudder and ailerons. I like my tail brace wires tight, as in fiddle string tight, no slack. Elevator cables I also like tight. When the elevators locked (have someone hold them snug), there should be no play in the control stick, fore and aft. We were just talking about rudder flutter. One way to eliminate rudder flutter is to keep your feet firmly planted on the rudder pedals. Another way is to double up on the rudder springs. Both ways keep the rudder cables tight. I'm guessing tight elevator cables would eliminate elevator flutter. If not, tight elevator cables will certainly give the Kolb a much better control feel in pitch. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Carb Problem From: Ellery Batchelder Jr Thanks Guys yes it did sit for a while but the problem was some meat head u sed silicone to hold the gasket up in side the carb base and he used it gen erously and it squeezed out inside the carb and that was what I found in th e seat so I checked other carb and found the same I cleaned both carbs an d now there is no problem, now to have an annual done and get her in the wi nd Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Girard Sent: Thu, Jul 26, 2012 2:56 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Carb Problem Ellery, In addition to checking the floats and needle valve, check to see t hat all passages from the float chamber to the carb throat are clear. Did t he engine sit for awhile? The crud in present day fuel makes a compound tha t can seal those small, drilled passages like you'd poured epoxy into them. Rick Girard On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Ellery Batchelder Jr wrote: I have a 912 Rotax ULS 80 Hp on a Kolb MK3Classic and fuel is running out of the vent line on one carb what should I look for to stop this? get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:13 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations From: "Richard Pike" This is a new one, and it sounds like you already have the bases covered. Something that you might try is to put a trim tab on the elevator to get it out of dead center, because that can get it hunting to try and find the place where it wants to live. Use the trim tab to load it postitively in one direction, and then - if necessary - put a spring loaded in flight adjustable trim to restrain it in the opposite direction so that you can live with it. Then go test fly very cautiously and see what happens. You do know that any time flutter occurs, the quickest way to stop it is to kill the airspeed by chopping the throttle and easing back on the stick? Regardless, you need to fix it. Keep us posted. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379304#379304 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.