Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:03 AM - Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts (racerjerry)
2. 05:27 AM - Re: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts (Phil)
3. 05:58 AM - Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations (Dennis Thate)
4. 07:45 AM - Re: oil pressure problem (frank goodnight)
5. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts (Richard Girard)
6. 12:30 PM - Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations (Richard Girard)
7. 12:50 PM - Re: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts (Phil)
8. 12:54 PM - Re: oil pressure problem (Gary Aman)
9. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts (Dana Hague)
10. 08:13 PM - Re: oil pressure problem (Larry Cottrell)
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Subject: | Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts |
What engine / gearbox are these bolts this for?
AN5H denotes a 5/16 diameter bolt having 24 threads per inch NOT 20.
5/16 x 20 is not a standard American thread, but this size could easily be confused
with a metric 8 x 1.25 mm bolt at least until you try to thread a standard
nut onto it. The metric 1.25 pitch is equivalent to 20.32 threads per inch
and in 8 mm diameter is VERY close in both diameter and pitch to your mystical
5/16 x 20 bolt.
Another completely different thought:
AN4H-31A, which is a 1/4 x 28 drilled head prop bolt, is a relatively common prop
bolt for ultralight engines (at least it was listed in my old CPS catalog).
Common American Bolt sizes (diameter & threads per inch)
1/4 -20 (NC)
1/4 - 28 (NF) < AN4
5/16 -18 (NC)
5/16 -24 (NF) < AN5
3/8 -16 (NC)
3/8 -24 (NF) < AN6
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379399#379399
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Subject: | Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts |
Hi Jerry:
You have "hit the bolt on the head", so to speak.
You are correct - I have determined I need the 8 x 1.25 x 80mm 10.9 grade b
olt. They are very close indeed. Thank you for confirming what I just disco
vered in the last 24 hours. This is for the CRE mz201 with 1.77:1 belt redu
c.
Phil H.
--- On Sat, 7/28/12, racerjerry <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
From: racerjerry <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts
What engine / gearbox are these bolts this for?
AN5H denotes a 5/16 diameter bolt having 24 threads per inch =93 NOT
20.
5/16 x 20 is not a standard American thread, but this size could easily be
confused with a metric 8 x 1.25 mm bolt =93 at least until you try to
thread=C2- a standard nut onto it.=C2- The metric 1.25 pitch is equiva
lent to 20.32 threads per inch and in 8 mm diameter is VERY close in both d
iameter and pitch to your mystical =9C5/16 x 20=9D bolt.
Another completely different thought:
AN4H-31A, which is a 1/4 x 28 drilled head prop bolt, is a relatively commo
n prop bolt for ultralight engines (at least it was listed in my old CPS ca
talog).
Common American Bolt sizes (diameter & threads per inch)
1/4 -20=C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-(NC)
1/4 - 28=C2- =C2- =C2- (NF)=C2-=C2-=C2-< AN4
5/16 -18=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-(NC)
5/16 -24=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-(NF)=C2-=C2-=C2-< AN5
3/8 -16=C2- =C2- =C2- (NC)
3/8 -24=C2- =C2- =C2- (NF)=C2- =C2- < AN6
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379399#379399
S WEB FORUMS -
on Web Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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Subject: | Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations |
Eric,
Hope this helps, as a starting point. This seems to work well for pilots 180
to 220 pounds. My Kolb Firestar II 503 , just a 2 "x 7/1/2" piece of aluminum.
--------
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents
the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379403#379403
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/elevator_trim__firestar_ii_003_545.jpg
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Subject: | Re: oil pressure problem |
Hi Larry,
Sorry to hear you are having problems with the HKS . I have always used Moble
full synthetic 5w40 and a wix filter.
200 hrs and no problems. Have run it for 1 hr at 5,700 RPM with ground temps
over 100 F--checking the new air scoops--
with no problems. CHT under 300 F and have to cover 1/2 my oil cooler to get the
oil temp to 180. So if everything else is OK
it's doubtful the hot weather is causing the problem . How many HRS on your
engine ? and what are your temps?
Hope yours is just a simple ( and cheap) fix.
Keep us informed ,and good luck
Frank
firestar2
HKS 700E
________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, July 27, 2012 7:58:30 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: oil pressure problem
I have an HKS 700 E on my Firestar. It has been showing low oil pressure. It was
fine until I changed the oil, then immediately after the change the oil pressure
light began flashing on my EIS. I could keep the pressure up at cruise speed, as
I believed that it was a faulty sender. My last flight was "the Long Draw Fire"
and I had to cut it short because I was having problems keeping the pressure
high enough even at cruise. I parked it and ordered a new sender, enduring a
long and extremely tedious hassle with Fed X in trying to get them to deliver
the part. I finally got the sender tonight and it appears that the problem is
not solved at all.
I used a new filter, In fact two of them. One was a Napa Gold, and then a
Carquest, hoping that it was just the filter. The oil is full synthetic 5W 40 as
required. I have trouble with coincidences, and this one seems a bit strange.
I
am not sure that I have really flown it at the heats that we are enduring. I
doubt that the temps have much to do with it as well. I am open to any
suggestions at all.
Larry
--
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address
before sending.
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Subject: | Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts |
Phil, Is it your prop maker's recommendation to use 10.9 spec bolts? Warp
Drive, whose high inertia stresses prop bolts more than most, specs 8.8.
Power Fin uses softer bolts yet with their props, spec'ing stainless steel
bolts. Just wondering.
Rick Girard
Do not archive
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Phil <phactor9@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Jerry:
>
> You have "hit the bolt on the head", so to speak.
>
> You are correct - I have determined I need the 8 x 1.25 x 80mm 10.9 grade
> bolt. They are very close indeed. Thank you for confirming what I just
> discovered in the last 24 hours. This is for the CRE mz201 with 1.77:1 be
lt
> reduc.
>
> Phil H.
>
>
> --- On *Sat, 7/28/12, racerjerry <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us>* wrote:
>
>
> From: racerjerry <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, July 28, 2012, 8:02 AM
>
://mc/compose?to=gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> >
>
> What engine / gearbox are these bolts this for?
>
> AN5H denotes a 5/16 diameter bolt having 24 threads per inch ' NOT 20.
> 5/16 x 20 is not a standard American thread, but this size could easily b
e
> confused with a metric 8 x 1.25 mm bolt ' at least until you try to thr
ead
> a standard nut onto it. The metric 1.25 pitch is equivalent to 20.32
> threads per inch and in 8 mm diameter is VERY close in both diameter and
> pitch to your mystical =935/16 x 20=94 bolt.
>
> Another completely different thought:
> AN4H-31A, which is a 1/4 x 28 drilled head prop bolt, is a relatively
> common prop bolt for ultralight engines (at least it was listed in my old
> CPS catalog).
>
> Common American Bolt sizes (diameter & threads per inch)
> 1/4 -20 (NC)
> 1/4 - 28 (NF) < AN4
> 5/16 -18 (NC)
> 5/16 -24 (NF) < AN5
> 3/8 -16 (NC)
> 3/8 -24 (NF) < AN6
>
> --------
> Jerry King
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379399#379399
>
>
> **
> http=======================
=**
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
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Subject: | Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations |
Eric, Another place to look is the elevator hinges. Check them for wear and
slop. That can contribute to your problem.
As for trim system, I would avoid putting any weight, no matter how small
on the elevator. Study the trim system for the Mk III aircraft and see if
you could implement something like they use.
Rick Girard
Do not archive
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>wrote:
>
> At 12:00 PM 7/25/12 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >Hello fellow Kolbers,
> >
> ...................>
> >I dialed her in with rudder and aileron trim tabs and she'll fly straight
> as an arrow, hands off, in calm conditions. But when she gets bounced
> around in light turbulence, the elevator will occasionally begin to
> oscillate if I don't keep a firm grip on the stick. It starts slowly and
> will increase gradually, but I can easily stop it by changing airspeed or
> pitch. I had a former Firestar pilot and multiple airplane builder fly
> with
> me in his Rans to watch and he said the boom tube began flexing - that's
> not
> good. The immediate solution has been to never let go of the stick.
> >
>
> Eric,
>
> Pitch stability is much like a pendulum of a clock, in that the greater the
> distance the vertical cg is below the wing and the larger the mass (weight
> of the aircraft) the more stable the aircraft is in pitch. Each plane will
> seek to oscillate in pitch at its own natural frequency. As the vertical
> cg
> moves forward it puts more load on the nose and this causes the nose to
> drop. As the speed builds and the cg moves toward the rear more lift is
> generated and the nose will rise, etc.
>
> If your boom tube to cage connection is flexing, I would check out cage and
> boom tube integrity with in the cage.
>
> Pitch stability can be aggravated and corrected by stick input.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
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Subject: | Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts |
Essentially, if I can only find 10.9 (metric) and not 8.8 (metric), I'll gl
adly take it. This leads me to ask (rhetorically) if 8.8 is preferred over
10.9 as a prop bolt. My other prop's bolts (thinner hub) are 10.9.
=C2-
So, I finally got around to Googling "is 10.9 the same as grade 8"... (comp
aring metric classes to SAE grades).
Apparently, metric "Class 10.9" is almost the equivalent to SAE "Grade 8" -
I'm just learning all this, too, but I'm sure I need M8 x 1.25 x 80mm head
-drilled, so thanks to everyone that replied!
Read this...
"No they are not the same but very simular. Grade 8 is what the SAE came ou
t with and grade 10.9 is the metric version. Grade 8 min tensile strenght i
s 150K PSI and 10.9 is 142.2K. Also the torque capacity of the grade 8 is h
igher then its metric conterpart."
...at this link:
http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-maintenance/grade-8-vs-class-10-9-bolts-5
4419/
Here's a chart (not clear)
http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Gra
de-Chart.aspx
This chart is clearer:
http://www.k-tbolt.com/bolt_chart.html
Again, read this...
"we grade our bolts (hardness) gr 2, gr 5, gr 8. Metric bolts come in 8.8,
9.8, 10.9 and 12.9. Seeing one of those numbers on the head tells you right
away that what youre looking at is a metric bolt. 8.8 is the equivalant of
grade 5, and 10.9 is pretty much the same as our grade 8. Its not at all u
ncommon to see metric on american cars, but most american cars have both U.
S. and metric bolts on them.
...at this link:
http://www.ffcars.com/forums/44-2004-roadster-archives-read-only/113163-bol
ts-grade-5-grade-8-grade-10-9-a.html
More info than you need, but it's free=C2- :)
Phil H.
--- On Sat, 7/28/12, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts
Phil, Is it your prop maker's recommendation to use 10.9 spec bolts? Warp D
rive, whose high inertia stresses prop bolts more than most, specs 8.8. Pow
er Fin uses softer bolts yet with their props, spec'ing stainless steel bol
ts. Just wondering.
Rick Girard
Do not archive
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Phil <phactor9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Jerry:
You have "hit the bolt on the head", so to speak.
You are correct - I have determined I need the 8 x 1.25 x 80mm 10.9 grade b
olt. They are very close indeed. Thank you for confirming what I just disco
vered in the last 24 hours. This is for the CRE mz201 with 1.77:1 belt redu
c.
Phil H.
--- On Sat, 7/28/12, racerjerry <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
From: racerjerry <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts
What engine / gearbox are these bolts this for?
AN5H denotes a 5/16 diameter bolt having 24 threads per inch =93 NOT
20.
5/16 x 20 is not a standard American thread, but this size could easily be
confused with a metric 8 x 1.25 mm bolt =93 at least until you try to
thread=C2- a standard nut onto it.=C2- The metric 1.25 pitch is equiva
lent to 20.32 threads per inch and in 8 mm diameter is VERY close in both d
iameter and pitch to your mystical =9C5/16 x 20=9D bolt.
Another completely different thought:
AN4H-31A, which is a 1/4 x 28 drilled head prop bolt, is a relatively commo
n prop bolt for ultralight engines (at least it was listed in my old CPS ca
talog).
Common American Bolt sizes (diameter & threads per inch)
1/4 -20=C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-(NC)
1/4 - 28=C2- =C2- =C2- (NF)=C2-=C2-=C2-< AN4
5/16 -18=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-(NC)
5/16 -24=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-(NF)=C2-=C2-=C2-< AN5
3/8 -16=C2- =C2- =C2- (NC)
3/8 -24=C2- =C2- =C2- (NF)=C2- =C2- < AN6
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379399#379399
http=======================
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
=C2- - Groucho Marx
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: oil pressure problem |
Larry,
I would look at the relief valve.If you have the manual it might give you t
he lube diagram showing where the valve is located.Sounds like the valve is
held open.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Jul 27, 2012 8:58 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: oil pressure problem
I have an HKS 700 E on my Firestar. It has been showing low oil pressure. I
t was fine until I changed the oil, then immediately after the change the o
il pressure light began flashing on my EIS. I could keep the pressure up at
cruise speed, as I believed that it was a faulty sender. My last flight wa
s "the Long Draw Fire" and I had to cut it short because I was having probl
ems keeping the pressure high enough even at cruise. I parked it and ordere
d a new sender, enduring a long and extremely tedious hassle with Fed X in
trying to get them to deliver the part. I finally got the sender tonight an
d it appears that the problem is not solved at all.
I used a new filter, In fact two of them. One was a Napa Gold, and then a C
arquest, hoping that it was just the filter. The oil is full synthetic 5W 4
0 as required. I have trouble with coincidences, and this one seems a bit s
trange. I am not sure that I have really flown it at the heats that we are
enduring. I doubt that the temps have much to do with it as well. I am ope
n to any suggestions at all.
Larry
--
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email addres
s before sending.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts |
>...8.8 is the equivalant of grade 5, and 10.9 is pretty much the same as
>our grade 8...
Correct. FWIW, AN bolts are roughly equivalent to grade 5 or metric 8.8,
but with more stringent quality control. Using bolts that are too strong
can be almost as bad as too weak in some applications, as the stronger
bolts can be more brittle than the softer ones.
The fine thread of AN bolts can be unsuitable for redrives where the bolts
thread into holes tapped into an aluminum prop hub as the fine threads can
easily strip out of the aluminum. With nuts, they're fine. I've drilled
out the tapped M6 holes in a PPG redrive to a clearance hole for 1/4" AN4
bolts with locknuts when the metric bolts (which were not drilled for
safety wire) kept loosening, and you could do the same with M8 to 5/16 AN5.
-Dana
--
Many people are alive only because it's illegal to shoot them.
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: oil pressure problem |
Hi,
I have somewhere around 150 hours. The temps stay around 300. I am
getting a mechanical oil pressure gauge so I will know for sure what the
pressure is. I will let you know.
Larry
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 8:45 AM, frank goodnight <frank.goodnight@att.net>wrote:
> Hi Larry,
> Sorry to hear you are having problems with the HKS . I have always used
> Moble full synthetic 5w40 and a wix filter.
> 200 hrs and no problems. Have run it for 1 hr at 5,700 RPM with ground
> temps over 100 F--checking the new air scoops--
> with no problems. CHT under 300 F and have to cover 1/2 my oil cooler to
> get the oil temp to 180. So if everything else is OK
> it's doubtful the hot weather is causing the problem . How many HRS on
> your engine ? and what are your temps?
> Hope yours is just a simple ( and cheap) fix.
> Keep us informed ,and good luck
> Frank
> firestar2
> HKS 700E
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
> *To:* "kolb-list@matronics.com" <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Fri, July 27, 2012 7:58:30 PM
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: oil pressure problem
>
> I have an HKS 700 E on my Firestar. It has been showing low oil pressure.
> It was fine until I changed the oil, then immediately after the change the
> oil pressure light began flashing on my EIS. I could keep the pressure up
> at cruise speed, as I believed that it was a faulty sender. My last flight
> was "the Long Draw Fire" and I had to cut it short because I was having
> problems keeping the pressure high enough even at cruise. I parked it and
> ordered a new sender, enduring a long and extremely tedious hassle with Fed
> X in trying to get them to deliver the part. I finally got the sender
> tonight and it appears that the problem is not solved at all.
>
> I used a new filter, In fact two of them. One was a Napa Gold, and then a
> Carquest, hoping that it was just the filter. The oil is full synthetic 5W
> 40 as required. I have trouble with coincidences, and this one seems a bit
> strange. I am not sure that I have really flown it at the heats that we
> are enduring. I doubt that the temps have much to do with it as well. I am
> open to any suggestions at all.
> Larry
>
> --
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
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