Kolb-List Digest Archive

Sat 07/28/12


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:03 AM - Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts (racerjerry)
     2. 05:27 AM - Re: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts (Phil)
     3. 05:58 AM - Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations (Dennis Thate)
     4. 07:45 AM - Re: oil pressure problem (frank goodnight)
     5. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts (Richard Girard)
     6. 12:30 PM - Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations (Richard Girard)
     7. 12:50 PM - Re: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts (Phil)
     8. 12:54 PM - Re: oil pressure problem (Gary Aman)
     9. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts (Dana Hague)
    10. 08:13 PM - Re: oil pressure problem (Larry Cottrell)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:03:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts
    From: "racerjerry" <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    What engine / gearbox are these bolts this for? AN5H denotes a 5/16 diameter bolt having 24 threads per inch NOT 20. 5/16 x 20 is not a standard American thread, but this size could easily be confused with a metric 8 x 1.25 mm bolt at least until you try to thread a standard nut onto it. The metric 1.25 pitch is equivalent to 20.32 threads per inch and in 8 mm diameter is VERY close in both diameter and pitch to your mystical 5/16 x 20 bolt. Another completely different thought: AN4H-31A, which is a 1/4 x 28 drilled head prop bolt, is a relatively common prop bolt for ultralight engines (at least it was listed in my old CPS catalog). Common American Bolt sizes (diameter & threads per inch) 1/4 -20 (NC) 1/4 - 28 (NF) < AN4 5/16 -18 (NC) 5/16 -24 (NF) < AN5 3/8 -16 (NC) 3/8 -24 (NF) < AN6 -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379399#379399


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:27:45 AM PST US
    From: Phil <phactor9@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts
    Hi Jerry: You have "hit the bolt on the head", so to speak. You are correct - I have determined I need the 8 x 1.25 x 80mm 10.9 grade b olt. They are very close indeed. Thank you for confirming what I just disco vered in the last 24 hours. This is for the CRE mz201 with 1.77:1 belt redu c. Phil H. --- On Sat, 7/28/12, racerjerry <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote: From: racerjerry <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts What engine / gearbox are these bolts this for? AN5H denotes a 5/16 diameter bolt having 24 threads per inch =93 NOT 20. 5/16 x 20 is not a standard American thread, but this size could easily be confused with a metric 8 x 1.25 mm bolt =93 at least until you try to thread=C2- a standard nut onto it.=C2- The metric 1.25 pitch is equiva lent to 20.32 threads per inch and in 8 mm diameter is VERY close in both d iameter and pitch to your mystical =9C5/16 x 20=9D bolt. Another completely different thought: AN4H-31A, which is a 1/4 x 28 drilled head prop bolt, is a relatively commo n prop bolt for ultralight engines (at least it was listed in my old CPS ca talog). Common American Bolt sizes (diameter & threads per inch) 1/4 -20=C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-(NC) 1/4 - 28=C2- =C2- =C2- (NF)=C2-=C2-=C2-< AN4 5/16 -18=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-(NC) 5/16 -24=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-(NF)=C2-=C2-=C2-< AN5 3/8 -16=C2- =C2- =C2- (NC) 3/8 -24=C2- =C2- =C2- (NF)=C2- =C2- < AN6 -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379399#379399 S WEB FORUMS - on Web Site - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:58:09 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations
    From: "Dennis Thate" <retroman@frontier.com>
    Eric, Hope this helps, as a starting point. This seems to work well for pilots 180 to 220 pounds. My Kolb Firestar II 503 , just a 2 "x 7/1/2" piece of aluminum. -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379403#379403 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/elevator_trim__firestar_ii_003_545.jpg


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:45:53 AM PST US
    From: frank goodnight <frank.goodnight@att.net>
    Subject: Re: oil pressure problem
    Hi Larry, Sorry to hear you are having problems with the HKS . I have always used Moble full synthetic 5w40 and a wix filter. 200 hrs and no problems. Have run it for 1 hr at 5,700 RPM with ground temps over 100 F--checking the new air scoops-- with no problems. CHT under 300 F and have to cover 1/2 my oil cooler to get the oil temp to 180. So if everything else is OK it's doubtful the hot weather is causing the problem . How many HRS on your engine ? and what are your temps? Hope yours is just a simple ( and cheap) fix. Keep us informed ,and good luck Frank firestar2 HKS 700E ________________________________ From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com> Sent: Fri, July 27, 2012 7:58:30 PM Subject: Kolb-List: oil pressure problem I have an HKS 700 E on my Firestar. It has been showing low oil pressure. It was fine until I changed the oil, then immediately after the change the oil pressure light began flashing on my EIS. I could keep the pressure up at cruise speed, as I believed that it was a faulty sender. My last flight was "the Long Draw Fire" and I had to cut it short because I was having problems keeping the pressure high enough even at cruise. I parked it and ordered a new sender, enduring a long and extremely tedious hassle with Fed X in trying to get them to deliver the part. I finally got the sender tonight and it appears that the problem is not solved at all. I used a new filter, In fact two of them. One was a Napa Gold, and then a Carquest, hoping that it was just the filter. The oil is full synthetic 5W 40 as required. I have trouble with coincidences, and this one seems a bit strange. I am not sure that I have really flown it at the heats that we are enduring. I doubt that the temps have much to do with it as well. I am open to any suggestions at all. Larry -- If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.


    Message 5


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    Time: 12:22:00 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Phil, Is it your prop maker's recommendation to use 10.9 spec bolts? Warp Drive, whose high inertia stresses prop bolts more than most, specs 8.8. Power Fin uses softer bolts yet with their props, spec'ing stainless steel bolts. Just wondering. Rick Girard Do not archive On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Phil <phactor9@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi Jerry: > > You have "hit the bolt on the head", so to speak. > > You are correct - I have determined I need the 8 x 1.25 x 80mm 10.9 grade > bolt. They are very close indeed. Thank you for confirming what I just > discovered in the last 24 hours. This is for the CRE mz201 with 1.77:1 be lt > reduc. > > Phil H. > > > --- On *Sat, 7/28/12, racerjerry <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us>* wrote: > > > From: racerjerry <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us> > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Saturday, July 28, 2012, 8:02 AM > ://mc/compose?to=gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us> > > > > What engine / gearbox are these bolts this for? > > AN5H denotes a 5/16 diameter bolt having 24 threads per inch ' NOT 20. > 5/16 x 20 is not a standard American thread, but this size could easily b e > confused with a metric 8 x 1.25 mm bolt ' at least until you try to thr ead > a standard nut onto it. The metric 1.25 pitch is equivalent to 20.32 > threads per inch and in 8 mm diameter is VERY close in both diameter and > pitch to your mystical =935/16 x 20=94 bolt. > > Another completely different thought: > AN4H-31A, which is a 1/4 x 28 drilled head prop bolt, is a relatively > common prop bolt for ultralight engines (at least it was listed in my old > CPS catalog). > > Common American Bolt sizes (diameter & threads per inch) > 1/4 -20 (NC) > 1/4 - 28 (NF) < AN4 > 5/16 -18 (NC) > 5/16 -24 (NF) < AN5 > 3/8 -16 (NC) > 3/8 -24 (NF) < AN6 > > -------- > Jerry King > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379399#379399 > > > ** > http======================= =** > > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:30:27 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: New Firestar II owner - question about elevator oscillations
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Eric, Another place to look is the elevator hinges. Check them for wear and slop. That can contribute to your problem. As for trim system, I would avoid putting any weight, no matter how small on the elevator. Study the trim system for the Mk III aircraft and see if you could implement something like they use. Rick Girard Do not archive On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>wrote: > > At 12:00 PM 7/25/12 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Hello fellow Kolbers, > > > ...................> > >I dialed her in with rudder and aileron trim tabs and she'll fly straight > as an arrow, hands off, in calm conditions. But when she gets bounced > around in light turbulence, the elevator will occasionally begin to > oscillate if I don't keep a firm grip on the stick. It starts slowly and > will increase gradually, but I can easily stop it by changing airspeed or > pitch. I had a former Firestar pilot and multiple airplane builder fly > with > me in his Rans to watch and he said the boom tube began flexing - that's > not > good. The immediate solution has been to never let go of the stick. > > > > Eric, > > Pitch stability is much like a pendulum of a clock, in that the greater the > distance the vertical cg is below the wing and the larger the mass (weight > of the aircraft) the more stable the aircraft is in pitch. Each plane will > seek to oscillate in pitch at its own natural frequency. As the vertical > cg > moves forward it puts more load on the nose and this causes the nose to > drop. As the speed builds and the cg moves toward the rear more lift is > generated and the nose will rise, etc. > > If your boom tube to cage connection is flexing, I would check out cage and > boom tube integrity with in the cage. > > Pitch stability can be aggravated and corrected by stick input. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:50:50 PM PST US
    From: Phil <phactor9@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts
    Essentially, if I can only find 10.9 (metric) and not 8.8 (metric), I'll gl adly take it. This leads me to ask (rhetorically) if 8.8 is preferred over 10.9 as a prop bolt. My other prop's bolts (thinner hub) are 10.9. =C2- So, I finally got around to Googling "is 10.9 the same as grade 8"... (comp aring metric classes to SAE grades). Apparently, metric "Class 10.9" is almost the equivalent to SAE "Grade 8" - I'm just learning all this, too, but I'm sure I need M8 x 1.25 x 80mm head -drilled, so thanks to everyone that replied! Read this... "No they are not the same but very simular. Grade 8 is what the SAE came ou t with and grade 10.9 is the metric version. Grade 8 min tensile strenght i s 150K PSI and 10.9 is 142.2K. Also the torque capacity of the grade 8 is h igher then its metric conterpart." ...at this link: http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-maintenance/grade-8-vs-class-10-9-bolts-5 4419/ Here's a chart (not clear) http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Gra de-Chart.aspx This chart is clearer: http://www.k-tbolt.com/bolt_chart.html Again, read this... "we grade our bolts (hardness) gr 2, gr 5, gr 8. Metric bolts come in 8.8, 9.8, 10.9 and 12.9. Seeing one of those numbers on the head tells you right away that what youre looking at is a metric bolt. 8.8 is the equivalant of grade 5, and 10.9 is pretty much the same as our grade 8. Its not at all u ncommon to see metric on american cars, but most american cars have both U. S. and metric bolts on them. ...at this link: http://www.ffcars.com/forums/44-2004-roadster-archives-read-only/113163-bol ts-grade-5-grade-8-grade-10-9-a.html More info than you need, but it's free=C2- :) Phil H. --- On Sat, 7/28/12, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote: From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts Phil, Is it your prop maker's recommendation to use 10.9 spec bolts? Warp D rive, whose high inertia stresses prop bolts more than most, specs 8.8. Pow er Fin uses softer bolts yet with their props, spec'ing stainless steel bol ts. Just wondering. Rick Girard Do not archive On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Phil <phactor9@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Jerry: You have "hit the bolt on the head", so to speak. You are correct - I have determined I need the 8 x 1.25 x 80mm 10.9 grade b olt. They are very close indeed. Thank you for confirming what I just disco vered in the last 24 hours. This is for the CRE mz201 with 1.77:1 belt redu c. Phil H. --- On Sat, 7/28/12, racerjerry <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote: From: racerjerry <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts What engine / gearbox are these bolts this for? AN5H denotes a 5/16 diameter bolt having 24 threads per inch =93 NOT 20. 5/16 x 20 is not a standard American thread, but this size could easily be confused with a metric 8 x 1.25 mm bolt =93 at least until you try to thread=C2- a standard nut onto it.=C2- The metric 1.25 pitch is equiva lent to 20.32 threads per inch and in 8 mm diameter is VERY close in both d iameter and pitch to your mystical =9C5/16 x 20=9D bolt. Another completely different thought: AN4H-31A, which is a 1/4 x 28 drilled head prop bolt, is a relatively commo n prop bolt for ultralight engines (at least it was listed in my old CPS ca talog). Common American Bolt sizes (diameter & threads per inch) 1/4 -20=C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-(NC) 1/4 - 28=C2- =C2- =C2- (NF)=C2-=C2-=C2-< AN4 5/16 -18=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-(NC) 5/16 -24=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-(NF)=C2-=C2-=C2-< AN5 3/8 -16=C2- =C2- =C2- (NC) 3/8 -24=C2- =C2- =C2- (NF)=C2- =C2- < AN6 -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379399#379399 http======================= get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. =C2- - Groucho Marx


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:54:59 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: oil pressure problem
    From: Gary Aman <zeprep251@aol.com>
    Larry, I would look at the relief valve.If you have the manual it might give you t he lube diagram showing where the valve is located.Sounds like the valve is held open. G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com> Sent: Fri, Jul 27, 2012 8:58 pm Subject: Kolb-List: oil pressure problem I have an HKS 700 E on my Firestar. It has been showing low oil pressure. I t was fine until I changed the oil, then immediately after the change the o il pressure light began flashing on my EIS. I could keep the pressure up at cruise speed, as I believed that it was a faulty sender. My last flight wa s "the Long Draw Fire" and I had to cut it short because I was having probl ems keeping the pressure high enough even at cruise. I parked it and ordere d a new sender, enduring a long and extremely tedious hassle with Fed X in trying to get them to deliver the part. I finally got the sender tonight an d it appears that the problem is not solved at all. I used a new filter, In fact two of them. One was a Napa Gold, and then a C arquest, hoping that it was just the filter. The oil is full synthetic 5W 4 0 as required. I have trouble with coincidences, and this one seems a bit s trange. I am not sure that I have really flown it at the heats that we are enduring. I doubt that the temps have much to do with it as well. I am ope n to any suggestions at all. Larry -- If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email addres s before sending.


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:33:05 PM PST US
    From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: AN5H-31A prop bolts
    >...8.8 is the equivalant of grade 5, and 10.9 is pretty much the same as >our grade 8... Correct. FWIW, AN bolts are roughly equivalent to grade 5 or metric 8.8, but with more stringent quality control. Using bolts that are too strong can be almost as bad as too weak in some applications, as the stronger bolts can be more brittle than the softer ones. The fine thread of AN bolts can be unsuitable for redrives where the bolts thread into holes tapped into an aluminum prop hub as the fine threads can easily strip out of the aluminum. With nuts, they're fine. I've drilled out the tapped M6 holes in a PPG redrive to a clearance hole for 1/4" AN4 bolts with locknuts when the metric bolts (which were not drilled for safety wire) kept loosening, and you could do the same with M8 to 5/16 AN5. -Dana -- Many people are alive only because it's illegal to shoot them.


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:13:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: oil pressure problem
    From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
    Hi, I have somewhere around 150 hours. The temps stay around 300. I am getting a mechanical oil pressure gauge so I will know for sure what the pressure is. I will let you know. Larry On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 8:45 AM, frank goodnight <frank.goodnight@att.net>wrote: > Hi Larry, > Sorry to hear you are having problems with the HKS . I have always used > Moble full synthetic 5w40 and a wix filter. > 200 hrs and no problems. Have run it for 1 hr at 5,700 RPM with ground > temps over 100 F--checking the new air scoops-- > with no problems. CHT under 300 F and have to cover 1/2 my oil cooler to > get the oil temp to 180. So if everything else is OK > it's doubtful the hot weather is causing the problem . How many HRS on > your engine ? and what are your temps? > Hope yours is just a simple ( and cheap) fix. > Keep us informed ,and good luck > Frank > firestar2 > HKS 700E > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com> > *To:* "kolb-list@matronics.com" <kolb-list@matronics.com> > *Sent:* Fri, July 27, 2012 7:58:30 PM > *Subject:* Kolb-List: oil pressure problem > > I have an HKS 700 E on my Firestar. It has been showing low oil pressure. > It was fine until I changed the oil, then immediately after the change the > oil pressure light began flashing on my EIS. I could keep the pressure up > at cruise speed, as I believed that it was a faulty sender. My last flight > was "the Long Draw Fire" and I had to cut it short because I was having > problems keeping the pressure high enough even at cruise. I parked it and > ordered a new sender, enduring a long and extremely tedious hassle with Fed > X in trying to get them to deliver the part. I finally got the sender > tonight and it appears that the problem is not solved at all. > > I used a new filter, In fact two of them. One was a Napa Gold, and then a > Carquest, hoping that it was just the filter. The oil is full synthetic 5W > 40 as required. I have trouble with coincidences, and this one seems a bit > strange. I am not sure that I have really flown it at the heats that we > are enduring. I doubt that the temps have much to do with it as well. I am > open to any suggestions at all. > Larry > > -- > *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending.* > > * > > * > > * > > * > > -- *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.*




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