---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/16/12: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:13 AM - Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement (Thom Riddle) 2. 05:56 AM - Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement (chris davis) 3. 07:32 AM - Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement (Dennis Thate) 4. 07:58 AM - Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement (Thom Riddle) 5. 08:24 AM - Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement (David Kulp) 6. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement (David Kulp) 7. 08:34 AM - Re: Tailwheel upgrade (Jack B. Hart) 8. 02:08 PM - Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement (chris davis) 9. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement (chris davis) 10. 06:26 PM - Re: Tailwheel upgrade (David Kulp) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:53 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement From: "Thom Riddle" The Matco brakes on my Slingshot have the heel piece far enough aft that the pilot's heel falls naturally in the prop place for easy actuation. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Diamond Katana DA20-A1 Rotax 912 F3 Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long. - Anonymous Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383214#383214 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/heel_brake_master_cylinder_right_456.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:59 AM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FlagFly heel brake improvement David , Nice job on your parking brakes, but i have a question for you .I a m still building my Firefly I built and flew my Firestar KXP for ten years never had brakes .Other than engine run-ups and parking does flying a Firef ly require brakes landing or turning on the ground ? Will i be lost without them ? thanks Chris=0A=0A=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot =0ADisabled from crash building Firefly=0A=0AFrom: David Kulp =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, September 8, 2012 9: 37 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: FlagFly heel brake improvement=0A=0A--> Kolb-Li st message posted by: David Kulp =0A=0AG'day Kolb drivers ,=0A=0AI did a mod to my Matco heel brakes on my FlagFly that turned out to be one of those YES!!! moments.- Reaching for my brakes required a very unnatural thrusting my heels forward all the while trying to steer with the rudder pedal.- The way my knees are bent while sitting in the FF made it a difficult thing to do.- So I went about trying to improve the situatio n.=0A=0AFirst I cut two 3/4" lengths from a large dowel, shaped the one sid e concave to match the brake pedals, and epoxied them to the pedals. Felt a lot better in use, but in a short time one of them came off, so I removed the other one, too.=0A=0AFlew that way for a while, but still wanted to do a more permanent fix, so I hunted through my "stuff" and found that the dia meter of the brake pedals is just slightly larger than the OD of 1 1/2" PVC . I trucked over to Home Depot and browsed through related items to try to find something which would fit over the pedals and not have to be glued on. - And there they were; rubber end caps with hose clamps to cap off an inc h and a half PVC pipe.=0A=0ABought two and brought them home.- Measured t he inside depth and cut two pieces of inch and a half PVC pipe about 3/16" shorter, using my radial arm saw in order to get a perfectly square cut.- I pushed the pieces of PVC into the end caps, moved the clamp flush to the edge, and pushed them onto the brake pedals.- Tightening the clamps then compresses the edge of the rubber cap nicely around the edge of the pedal while the downward force is transmitted from your heel to the pedal via the PVC pipe.- A very solid function.=0A=0AI checked for any conflicts from the screw mechanism on the clamps and finding none, climbed in and worked t he brakes and rudders.- Not only does it allow my foot to position perfec tly, the rubber creates a slip-proof surface, like the brake pedal in your car.=0A=0ASo, if anyone else has the same annoying foot position with your heel brakes, maybe you can give this a try.- About five bucks and fifteen minutes is all it takes.=0A=0ADave Kulp=0ABethlehem, PA=0AFireFly 11DMK=0A =0ABTW, Don G. put VGs on the underside of the horiz stab on my FlagFly, an d although I don't know how it would handle without, it flies so great with =========================0A ======================= ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:21 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement From: "Dennis Thate" My Firestar came equipped like this with an adjustable heel brake. -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383222#383222 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/0000000_201.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:48 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement From: "Thom Riddle" Chris, Regarding brake requirements for any very light aircraft: My Opinion. If you fly only to/from grass and the winds on the ground when you are operating are not very high, you likely will not need brakes. When I was flying my first FS without brakes from a grass strip I never needed them, until one day on a x-country I had to land at a paved airport for fuel. I was fine until I started taxiing downwind toward the runway threshold on a paved taxi way for subsequent take-off. I had to stop the engine and it still kept going until I steered off the pavement onto the grass. Bottom line is, if you ever operate on pavement, the brakes are close to essential. You don't need much braking but you do need some under these circumstances. Or else you'll have to stick to grass or nearly dead calm wind conditions. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Diamond Katana DA20-A1 Rotax 912 F3 Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long. - Anonymous Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383223#383223 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:15 AM PST US From: David Kulp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FlagFly heel brake improvement Hi Chris, I've never flown a FireStar, having gone from an UltraStar to my FlagFly, but I doubt if there's a whole lot of difference on the ground. When landing I don't use the brakes for control, I dance with the rudder pedals in a crosswind. About the only time I use my brakes on landing is if I can land short and get off the runway on the first taxiway, otherwise I just pretty much let it roll out. But with a 2K RPM idle, on a hard surface you can roll quite a distance, albeit slowly after the momentum bleeds off. Again, on a hard surface, concrete, blacktop or even some aggregates, it will roll at idle. When you're on an apron with other very expensive aircraft parked nearby you want to be ready to kill the mill if you don't have brakes. On grass, the surface is such that the FF will stop at idle, so if that's all you fly from, you're OK. Where I start my FF the aggregate is hard and smooth and it tends to roll, with me standing outside unable to operate the brakes. Not good. So I have chocks with a nylon strap long enough to go from one chock, up around the handle of my BRS (or anything else that's handy) and down to the other chock. After it's running and I've climbed in, I pull the chocks on board and stash them in the compartment for use wherever I land next. As far as running the engine up, with the high thrust line if you run it up too high with the brakes locked you're looking to re-position your FF on its nose, which could be quite embarrassing, if nothing else. My routine is to check for normal engine response when I'm taxiing for takeoff, and when I give it full power to climb out I check for proper RPMs - 6200 with my prop adjustment on my 447. Much less and I'd chop the power and find out what gives. Different subject; I read a post recently of someone (I forget who) who just installed an electric fuel pump. When I bought the FlagFly, Don G., the man who built it, recommended that I have the electric fuel pump switched on for takeoff as insurance against vacuum pump failure, but to switch it off at altitude and allow the vacuum pump do the job. Then if the vacuum pump fails you know it and can switch on the electric, plus if you have a nasty return to earth, the electric pump won't be pumping fuel on whatever is near it. Make up your own mind, of course, but that makes sense to me, and sense is the most critical element of flying, IMHO. One final note; Russ, you gave me a good chuckle with your multiple ground loops at the airshow story. Don't we all fear being in such a position at some time? Of course, if the airshow announcer was cool, he'd have narrated your antics as part of the airshow and gotten you applause from the zillions in the crowd! And maybe a paycheck to boot! One gusty day landing on concrete at Blairstown a gust initiated what I was sure would be a ground loop but I trounced the rudder and all I got was a swerve to the edge of the runway. Even with that I was hoping no one was watching, so I can pretty much imagine your experience before a captive audience. Happy gorgeous (at least here in PA) Sunday to you all! Dave Kulp Bethlehem, PA FireFly 11DMK On 9/16/2012 8:54 AM, chris davis wrote: > David , Nice job on your parking brakes, but i have a question for you > .I am still building my Firefly I built and flew my Firestar KXP for > ten years never had brakes .Other than engine run-ups and parking does > flying a Firefly require brakes landing or turning on theground ? Will > i be lost without them ? thanks Chris > Chris Davis > KXP 503 492 hrs > Glider Pilot > Disabled from crash building Firefly > *From:* David Kulp > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Saturday, September 8, 2012 9:37 PM > *Subject:* Kolb-List: FlagFly heel brake improvement > > > > > G'day Kolb drivers, > > I did a mod to my Matco heel brakes on my FlagFly that turned out to > be one of those YES!!! moments. Reaching for my brakes required a > very unnatural thrusting my heels forward all the while trying to > steer with the rudder pedal. The way my knees are bent while sitting > in the FF made it a difficult thing to do. So I went about trying to > improve the situation. > > First I cut two 3/4" lengths from a large dowel, shaped the one side > concave to match the brake pedals, and epoxied them to the pedals. > Felt a lot better in use, but in a short time one of them came off, so > I removed the other one, too. > > Flew that way for a while, but still wanted to do a more permanent > fix, so I hunted through my "stuff" and found that the diameter of the > brake pedals is just slightly larger than the OD of 1 1/2" PVC. I > trucked over to Home Depot and browsed through related items to try to > find something which would fit over the pedals and not have to be > glued on. And there they were; rubber end caps with hose clamps to > cap off an inch and a half PVC pipe. > > Bought two and brought them home. Measured the inside depth and cut > two pieces of inch and a half PVC pipe about 3/16" shorter, using my > radial arm saw in order to get a perfectly square cut. I pushed the > pieces of PVC into the end caps, moved the clamp flush to the edge, > and pushed them onto the brake pedals. Tightening the clamps then > compresses the edge of the rubber cap nicely around the edge of the > pedal while the downward force is transmitted from your heel to the > pedal via the PVC pipe. A very solid function. > > I checked for any conflicts from the screw mechanism on the clamps and > finding none, climbed in and worked the brakes and rudders. Not only > does it allow my foot to position perfectly, the rubber creates a > slip-proof surface, like the brake pedal in your car. > > So, if anyone else has the same annoying foot position with your heel > brakes, maybe you can give this a try. About five bucks and fifteen > minutes is all it takes. > > Dave Kulp > Bethlehem, PA > FireFly 11DMK > > BTW, Don G. put VGs on the underside of the horiz stab on my FlagFly, > and although I don't know how it would handle without, it flies so > great wi ==== > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:02 AM PST US From: David Kulp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement Dennis, I notice that your brakes are mechanical, but mine are hyd, so the pedal is a plunger that goes directly into the master cylinder. So I have to extend the plungers. Dave Do Not Archive On 9/16/2012 10:29 AM, Dennis Thate wrote: > > My Firestar came equipped like this with an adjustable heel brake. > > -------- > Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383222#383222 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/0000000_201.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:28 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tailwheel upgrade From: JC Gilpin > Yes, the tailwheel upgrade is essential. That pizza cutter is pathetic..... For my FireFly,............. > JC, I have found the original tail wheel to be more than adequate. With a tail weight of less than 60 pounds, it has held up very well. Due to long taxiing on hard surfaces the tire wore away down to the plastic and I had to replace it after 634 flights. The only problems I have had are with the tail wheel springs and pivot bolt. The first spring broke upon landing after the 635 flight and resulted in a ground loop. Thinking that it was a fluke, I replaced it with a Kolb spring. Fourteen flights later the opposite spring broke. Luckily it did not result in a ground loop. This made me think about it a little more and I decided to use clevis springs, but I could not find any that were small enough to fit on the FireFly. So I resorted to making my own set up from bicycle spokes and compression die springs. The advantage of this system, is that there is little if any chance of the spring breaking. During this refitting process, I discovered the steel on steel pivot bolt and holes were badly worn. To repair it I re drilled all the holes and inserted brass tube bushings and thrust washer and a new bolt. This took all the slop out of the pivot. The benefit from this effort has been that the FireFly ground turning radius is much smaller that it was before. The compression spring setup is stiffer and so the FireFly is much less squirrelly when taking or landing in cross winds. When I was building my FireFly I cut the tail wheel spring rod length in half. I did this to save weight and to make sure I could make the 254 pound weight limit. If you would like to view these mod's, they can be seen at: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly133.html and: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly41.html Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:13 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FlagFly heel brake improvement David thanks for the reply it sounds like its just like the firestar . My h ome field is asphalt but there is a grass strip alongside which I-always used but the taxi strips are asphalt also and in the summer\ there are a lo t of expensive aircraft to avoid =0A=0A-- The reason I asked is I am tr ying to stay a legal ultralight and i am afraid that the adaptive equipment and the brakes \combined would put me over.thank again Chris=0AChris Davis =0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly=0A =0AFrom: David Kulp =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com =0ASen t: Sunday, September 16, 2012 11:21 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List: FlagFly he el brake improvement=0A=0A=0AHi Chris,=0A=0AI've never flown a FireStar, ha ving gone from an UltraStar to my FlagFly, but I doubt if there's a whole l ot of difference on the ground.- When landing I don't use the brakes for control, I dance with the rudder pedals in a crosswind.- About the only t ime I use my brakes on landing is if I can land short and get off the runwa y on the first taxiway, otherwise I just pretty much let it roll out.- Bu t with a 2K RPM idle, on a hard surface you can roll quite a distance, albe it slowly after the momentum bleeds off.=0A=0AAgain, on a hard surface, con crete, blacktop or even some aggregates, it will roll at idle.- When you' re on an apron with other very expensive aircraft parked nearby you want to be ready to kill the mill if you don't have brakes.- On grass, the surfa ce is such that the FF will stop at idle, so if that's all you fly from, yo u're OK.- Where I start my FF the aggregate is hard and smooth and it ten ds to roll, with me standing outside unable to operate the brakes.- Not g ood.- So I have chocks with a nylon strap long enough to go from one choc k, up around the handle of my BRS (or anything else that's handy) and down to the other chock.- After it's running and I've climbed in, I pull the c hocks on board and stash them in the compartment for use wherever I land ne xt.=0A=0AAs far as running the engine up, with the high thrust line if you run it up too high with the brakes locked you're looking to re-position you r FF on its nose, which could be quite embarrassing, if nothing else.- My routine is to check for normal engine response when I'm taxiing for takeof f, and when I give it full power to climb out I check for proper RPMs - 620 0 with my prop adjustment on my 447.- Much less and I'd chop the power an d find out what gives.=0A=0ADifferent subject; I read a post recently of so meone (I forget who) who just installed an electric fuel pump.- When I bo ught the FlagFly, Don G., the man who built it, recommended that I have the electric fuel pump switched on for takeoff as insurance against vacuum pum p failure, but to switch it off at altitude and allow the vacuum pump do th e job.- Then if the vacuum pump fails you know it and can switch on the e lectric, plus if you have a nasty return to earth, the electric pump won't be pumping fuel on whatever is near it.- Make up your own mind, of course , but that makes sense to me, and sense is the most critical element of fly ing, IMHO.=0A=0AOne final note; Russ, you gave me a good chuckle with your multiple ground loops at the airshow story.- Don't we all fear being in s uch a position at some time?- Of course, if the airshow announcer was coo l, he'd have narrated your antics as part of the airshow and gotten you app lause from the zillions in the crowd!- And maybe a paycheck to boot!- O ne gusty day landing on concrete at Blairstown a gust initiated what I was sure would be a ground loop but I trounced the rudder and all I got was a s werve to the edge of the runway.- Even with that I was hoping no one was watching, so I can pretty much imagine your experience before a captive aud ience.=0A=0AHappy gorgeous (at least here in PA) Sunday to you all!=0A=0ADa ve Kulp=0ABethlehem, PA=0AFireFly 11DMK=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 9/16/2012 8:54 AM, ch ris davis wrote:=0A=0ADavid , Nice job on your parking brakes, but i have a question for you .I am still building my Firefly I built and flew my Fires tar KXP for ten years never had brakes .Other than engine run-ups and parki ng does flying a Firefly require brakes landing or turning on the ground ? Will i be lost without them ? thanks Chris=0A>=0A>=0A>Chris Davis=0A>KXP 50 3 492 hrs=0A>Glider Pilot=0A>Disabled from crash building Firefly=0A>=0A>Fr om: David Kulp mailto:undoctor@ptd.net=0A>To: kolb-list@matronics.com =0A>S ent: Saturday, September 8, 2012 9:37 PM=0A>Subject: Kolb-List: FlagFly hee octor@ptd.net>=0A>=0A>G'day Kolb drivers,=0A>=0A>I did a mod to my Matco he el brakes on my FlagFly that turned out to be one of those YES!!! moments. - Reaching for my brakes required a very unnatural thrusting my heels for ward all the while trying to steer with the rudder pedal.- The way my kne es are bent while sitting in the FF made it a difficult thing to do.- So I went about trying to improve the situation.=0A>=0A>First I cut two 3/4" l engths from a large dowel, shaped the one side concave to match the brake p edals, and epoxied them to the pedals. Felt a lot better in use, but in a s hort time one of them came off, so I removed the other one, too.=0A>=0A>Fle w that way for a while, but still wanted to do a more permanent fix, so I h unted through my "stuff" and found that the diameter of the brake pedals is just slightly larger than the OD of 1 1/2" PVC. I trucked over to Home Dep ot and browsed through related items to try to find something which would f it over the pedals and not have to be glued on.- And there they were; rub ber end caps with hose clamps to cap off an inch and a half PVC pipe.=0A> =0A>Bought two and brought them home.- Measured the inside depth and cut two pieces of inch and a half PVC pipe about 3/16" shorter, using my radial arm saw in order to get a perfectly square cut.- I pushed the pieces of PVC into the end caps, moved the clamp flush to the edge, and pushed them o nto the brake pedals.- Tightening the clamps then compresses the edge of the rubber cap nicely around the edge of the pedal while the downward force is transmitted from your heel to the pedal via the PVC pipe.- A very sol id function.=0A>=0A>I checked for any conflicts from the screw mechanism on the clamps and finding none, climbed in and worked the brakes and rudders. - Not only does it allow my foot to position perfectly, the rubber create s a slip-proof surface, like the brake pedal in your car.=0A>=0A>So, if any one else has the same annoying foot position with your heel brakes, maybe y ou can give this a try.- About five bucks and fifteen minutes is all it t akes.=0A>=0A>Dave Kulp=0A>Bethlehem, PA=0A>FireFly 11DMK=0A>=0A>BTW, Don G. put VGs on the underside of the horiz stab on my FlagFly, and although I d on't know how it would handle without, it flies so great wi- - - - ===== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:55 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement Thom, you had about the same info as David . I guess its about the same as a Firestar , thats whast I thoughty but I wasnt sure how much difference th at short wing would make landing and such I guess-I will have to wait and see how much not having full use of my legs increases the need for brakes ,I think it might maybe just a brake lever (or 2) on the stick would do tha nk you Chris-=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled f rom crash building Firefly=0A=0AFrom: Thom Riddle =0ATo : kolb-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:56 AM=0ASu bject: Kolb-List: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement=0A=0A--> Kolb-List mes sage posted by: "Thom Riddle" =0A=0AChris,=0ARegarding brake requirements for any very light aircraft: =0AMy Opinion. If you fly o nly to/from grass and the winds on the ground when you are operating are no t very high, you likely will not need brakes. When I was flying my first FS without brakes from a grass strip I never needed them, until one day on a x-country I had to land at a paved airport for fuel. I was fine until I sta rted taxiing downwind toward the runway threshold on a paved taxi way for s ubsequent take-off. I had to stop the engine and it still kept going until I steered off the pavement onto the grass.=0A=0ABottom line is, if you ever operate on pavement, the brakes are close to essential. You don't need muc h braking but you do need some under these circumstances. Or else you'll ha ve to stick to grass or nearly dead calm wind conditions.=0A=0A--------=0AT hom Riddle=0ABuffalo, NY (9G0)=0A=0AKolb Slingshot SS-021=0AJabiru 2200A #1 574=0A=0ADiamond Katana DA20-A1=0ARotax 912 F3=0A=0ADon't worry about old a ge... it doesn't last very long. =0A- Anonymous=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this top ic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383223#3 ==================== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:25 PM PST US From: David Kulp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tailwheel upgrade Jack, your website is great, not to mention the mods you do. Thanks for so much info! Dave Kulp Do Not Archive On 9/16/2012 11:36 AM, Jack B. Hart wrote: > > Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 01:59:02 +1000 > From: JC Gilpin > Yes, the tailwheel upgrade is essential. That pizza cutter is pathetic..... > > For my FireFly,............. > JC, > > I have found the original tail wheel to be more than adequate. With a tail > weight of less than 60 pounds, it has held up very well. Due to long > taxiing on hard surfaces the tire wore away down to the plastic and I had to > replace it after 634 flights. > > The only problems I have had are with the tail wheel springs and pivot bolt. > The first spring broke upon landing after the 635 flight and resulted in a > ground loop. Thinking that it was a fluke, I replaced it with a Kolb spring. > Fourteen flights later the opposite spring broke. Luckily it did not > result in a ground loop. This made me think about it a little more and I > decided to use clevis springs, but I could not find any that were small > enough to fit on the FireFly. So I resorted to making my own set up from > bicycle spokes and compression die springs. The advantage of this system, > is that there is little if any chance of the spring breaking. > > During this refitting process, I discovered the steel on steel pivot bolt > and holes were badly worn. To repair it I re drilled all the holes and > inserted brass tube bushings and thrust washer and a new bolt. This took > all the slop out of the pivot. > > The benefit from this effort has been that the FireFly ground turning radius > is much smaller that it was before. The compression spring setup is stiffer > and so the FireFly is much less squirrelly when taking or landing in cross > winds. > > When I was building my FireFly I cut the tail wheel spring rod length in > half. I did this to save weight and to make sure I could make the 254 pound > weight limit. > > If you would like to view these mod's, they can be seen at: > > http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly133.html > > and: > > http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly41.html > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.