Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:31 AM - Re: glide ratio (Jimmy Young)
2. 04:48 AM - Re: Re: glide ratio (Pete Zaitcev)
3. 06:12 AM - Re: glide ratio (Thom Riddle)
4. 10:45 AM - Re: Re: glide ratio (TheWanderingWench)
5. 01:53 PM - Re: oil usage?? (tombaisley)
6. 04:52 PM - Re: glide ratio (wakataka)
7. 05:05 PM - Re: glide ratio (Jimmy Young)
8. 07:07 PM - Re: Re: glide ratio (Larry Cottrell)
Message 1
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Kolbers,
I guess this information on glide ratios makes for good chat-room fodder, but it
will do you no good when that prop quits. You aren't going to remember any of
it, nor will you have time to calculate it even if you did. You will hopefully
end up picking the best looking place to land that you instinctively know you
can make, and fly the the plane there. That's what this discussion is really
about.
In the two engine outs I had with my old Firestar, I can guarantee you I had no
idea what my glide slope was or how it would play into the situation in front
of me. I picked a clearing I knew I could make and flew the Kolb to it. One of
the best tips I ever read about flying Kolbs was getting used to staying higher
on approach and landing with no power most of the time. By doing that regularly
when the day comes that you lose power, because of all that practice it's
just another landing though with an added rush of adrenalin, a tight sphincter,
& unknown runway conditions.
Jimmy Young
former owner of N7043P Kolb Firestar, but lucky enough to still get to fly it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384303#384303
Message 2
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On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 04:28:39 -0700
"Jimmy Young" <jdy100@comcast.net> wrote:
> I guess this information on glide ratios makes for good chat-room fodder,
> but it will do you no good when that prop quits. You aren't going to
> remember any of it, nor will you have time to calculate it even if you did.
I would not be so sure for members with extensive instrument rules
experience. They breath such calculations and usually develop rules
of thumb that allow to estimate ratios quickly.
-- Pete
Message 3
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Jimmy,
You are correct, of course, but the whole reason for my post was to let those who
have never done a prop-stopped glide they should not count on their idle-power
glide to be a good indicator of how far they might be able to glide. Without
actual prop-stopped glide experience, you cannot "know" how far you can glide.
Once you've had some prop-stopped glide experience, you know to look for a
landing place very close to right below you unless you have a lot more AGL altitude
than most Kolbers fly at.
The purpose of the numbers was to disabuse those who think they can glide a Kolb
forward 700-900 feet for every 100 feet of AGL altitude. It is not going to
happen unless you luck into an updraft.
I am now flying a Diamond Katana with long low aspect ratio wings which the factory
claims has a 14 to 1 best glide ratio. I don't believe it but have not yet
made the opportunity to test it. I will soon and if I get a 10 to 1 best glide
ratio with prop stopped, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Diamond Katana DA20-A1
Rotax 912 F3
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384308#384308
Message 4
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Jimmy - =0A=0AWhile you are probably right about glide ratios not doing you
much good when the engine quits - I would argue that this discussion is de
finitely more than "good chat-room fodder".=0AFor me, the whole point is to
know what my true glide ratio is with an engine out - so that as I fly I c
an be looking for realistically attainable landing spots should my engine d
ie. (And I've had this happen a few times.) Knowing how far I can glide alt
ers how and where I fly: my altitude and my route. So I think this is a pre
tty critical subject.=0A=0AArty Trost=0ASandy, Oregon=0A=0A-=0Awww.Lesson
sFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm=0A=0A=0A"Life's a daring adventure or
nothing"=0AHelen Keller=0A=0A=0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to a
rrive safely at death."=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: J
immy Young <jdy100@comcast.net>=0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sund
ay, September 30, 2012 4:28 AM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Re: glide ratio=0A =0A
lbers, =0AI guess this information on glide ratios makes for good chat-room
fodder, but it will do you no good when that prop quits. You aren't going
to remember any of it, nor will you have time to calculate it even if you d
id. You will hopefully end up picking the best looking place to land that y
ou instinctively know you can make, and fly the the plane there. That's wha
t this discussion is really about. =0AIn the two engine outs I had with my
old Firestar, I can guarantee you I had no idea what my glide slope was or
how it would play into the situation in front of me. I picked a clearing I
knew I could make and flew the Kolb to it. One of the best tips I ever read
about flying Kolbs was getting used to staying higher on approach and land
ing with no power most of the time. By doing that regularly when the day co
mes that you lose power, because of all that practice it's just another lan
ding though with an added rush of adrenalin, a tight sphincter, & unknown r
unway conditions.=0A=0AJimmy Young=0Aformer owner of N7043P Kolb Firestar,
but lucky enough to still get to fly it.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic onli
ne here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384303#384303
=========================0A
======================
Message 5
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there is a repairman on barnstormers recommending a 40:1 mix for liquid cooled
rotax engines?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384329#384329
Message 6
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I agree that knowing the numerical value of your glide ratio is not going to do
you a lot of good when the engine quits. The best way to get a feel for the glide
ratio and handling qualities of your craft is to practice engine off landings.
It gives you the mental picture of how far you can glide, and it also gives
you practice landing without power. I encourage anyone flying with 2-stroke
or any non-certificated aircraft engine to occasionally kill the engine on base
or final, once you know you've got the runway in range. Get some practice
flying your airplane as a glider before you have an engine out. Practice side
slips and S-turns to lose altitude experiment to find your best L/D speed. The
experience you gain will make you a safer pilot and the confidence that you can
land safely if the engine quits will make flying more fun. Plus it's really
nice and peaceful up there without the noise and vibration.
--------
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of
conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
Mark Twain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384336#384336
Message 7
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To Arty, Thom,and all other Kolb lovers,
I need to apologize for my"chat-room fodder" comment. It was out of place and inaccurate
relative to the discussion taking place. I was still waiting on the
coffee to brew, & I can get a little short under those conditions.
I'm simply more of a "feel" flyer when it comes to awareness of the situation at
hand. I know what altitude I'm at, what my airspeed is, how the engine temps
are doing, and how much fuel I've got on board at any point of any flight. But
when it comes to making mental notes of where I can put down in an emergency,
I always have an off-field option spot picked out as we all should. I could
not accurately tell you how far away it is from me in feet, but I know instinctively
I can make it without knowing what my glide slope is or running calculations
in my head.
I haven't been flying long, a little over 5 years now & 95% of that was in the
Firestar. I made some stupid choices early on that by the grace of God I got away
with it, but learned from the events enough to not do it again. I have zero
GA experience short of flying in a Cessna 140 & 150 occasionally, so I can see
why I discount glide slope numbers. Let's just all agree that flying safe &
smart is the way to fly a long time, and we should do it in the way that works
best for each of us.
Safe flying,
Jimmy Young
still a lucky guy who gets to fly a Kolb, just not the owner anymore.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384338#384338
Message 8
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Jimmy,
I had forgotten what a nice guy, and how polite you are. :-) When a
subject comes up again and again with no resolution, it qualifies for CRF .
For instance the question of whether a spinning prop slows you more than a
stopped prop is still a question. Your email prompted John and I to
contemplate that same premise today. He thinks that a spinning prop slows
more than no power at all. I of course disagree. I can't get him to fly my
plane and try it, and of course he won't believe it until he does try it
himself. If I do it he will deep down think that I didn't do it right :-)
I have had two engine outs, and done a few of them on a voluntary basis.
(Safe conditions, and I knew it, so the stress levels were greatly
reduced.) I know that the last one that Arty had, caused the same result
that occurred to me on my last one. While you may think at the time that
you have every thing under control, in truth if the terrain is hostile, you
couldn't pour P out of a boot with the instructions on the heel. The little
person inside your brain flips a switch and you go to auto pilot. When you
are on the ground, assuming you survive, you will find quite a few things
that you could have done better. Invariably when your engine decides to
quit it will be in the worst place possible, or a ratio resembling, whether
your bread falls butter side down or not.
Practice definitely helps and is much better than not at all, however I bet
there are a few who think that doing it at idle power will give the same
results as doing it with no power.
I agree that this subject is very important, I just disagree that anyone
will do it any other way than the hard one.
Larry
On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 6:03 PM, Jimmy Young <jdy100@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> To Arty, Thom,and all other Kolb lovers,
>
> I need to apologize for my"chat-room fodder" comment. It was out of place
> and inaccurate relative to the discussion taking place. I was still waiting
> on the coffee to brew, & I can get a little short under those conditions.
>
> I'm simply more of a "feel" flyer when it comes to awareness of the
> situation at hand. I know what altitude I'm at, what my airspeed is, how
> the engine temps are doing, and how much fuel I've got on board at any
> point of any flight. But when it comes to making mental notes of where I
> can put down in an emergency, I always have an off-field option spot picked
> out as we all should. I could not accurately tell you how far away it is
> from me in feet, but I know instinctively I can make it without knowing
> what my glide slope is or running calculations in my head.
>
> I haven't been flying long, a little over 5 years now & 95% of that was in
> the Firestar. I made some stupid choices early on that by the grace of God
> I got away with it, but learned from the events enough to not do it again.
> I have zero GA experience short of flying in a Cessna 140 & 150
> occasionally, so I can see why I discount glide slope numbers. Let's just
> all agree that flying safe & smart is the way to fly a long time, and we
> should do it in the way that works best for each of us.
>
> Safe flying,
>
> Jimmy Young
> still a lucky guy who gets to fly a Kolb, just not the owner anymore.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384338#384338
>
>
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