---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/30/12: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:31 AM - Re: glide ratio (Jimmy Young) 2. 04:48 AM - Re: Re: glide ratio (Pete Zaitcev) 3. 06:12 AM - Re: glide ratio (Thom Riddle) 4. 10:45 AM - Re: Re: glide ratio (TheWanderingWench) 5. 01:53 PM - Re: oil usage?? (tombaisley) 6. 04:52 PM - Re: glide ratio (wakataka) 7. 05:05 PM - Re: glide ratio (Jimmy Young) 8. 07:07 PM - Re: Re: glide ratio (Larry Cottrell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:08 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: glide ratio From: "Jimmy Young" Kolbers, I guess this information on glide ratios makes for good chat-room fodder, but it will do you no good when that prop quits. You aren't going to remember any of it, nor will you have time to calculate it even if you did. You will hopefully end up picking the best looking place to land that you instinctively know you can make, and fly the the plane there. That's what this discussion is really about. In the two engine outs I had with my old Firestar, I can guarantee you I had no idea what my glide slope was or how it would play into the situation in front of me. I picked a clearing I knew I could make and flew the Kolb to it. One of the best tips I ever read about flying Kolbs was getting used to staying higher on approach and landing with no power most of the time. By doing that regularly when the day comes that you lose power, because of all that practice it's just another landing though with an added rush of adrenalin, a tight sphincter, & unknown runway conditions. Jimmy Young former owner of N7043P Kolb Firestar, but lucky enough to still get to fly it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384303#384303 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:21 AM PST US From: Pete Zaitcev Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: glide ratio On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 04:28:39 -0700 "Jimmy Young" wrote: > I guess this information on glide ratios makes for good chat-room fodder, > but it will do you no good when that prop quits. You aren't going to > remember any of it, nor will you have time to calculate it even if you did. I would not be so sure for members with extensive instrument rules experience. They breath such calculations and usually develop rules of thumb that allow to estimate ratios quickly. -- Pete ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:57 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: glide ratio From: "Thom Riddle" Jimmy, You are correct, of course, but the whole reason for my post was to let those who have never done a prop-stopped glide they should not count on their idle-power glide to be a good indicator of how far they might be able to glide. Without actual prop-stopped glide experience, you cannot "know" how far you can glide. Once you've had some prop-stopped glide experience, you know to look for a landing place very close to right below you unless you have a lot more AGL altitude than most Kolbers fly at. The purpose of the numbers was to disabuse those who think they can glide a Kolb forward 700-900 feet for every 100 feet of AGL altitude. It is not going to happen unless you luck into an updraft. I am now flying a Diamond Katana with long low aspect ratio wings which the factory claims has a 14 to 1 best glide ratio. I don't believe it but have not yet made the opportunity to test it. I will soon and if I get a 10 to 1 best glide ratio with prop stopped, I'll be pleasantly surprised. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Diamond Katana DA20-A1 Rotax 912 F3 Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long. - Anonymous Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384308#384308 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:38 AM PST US From: TheWanderingWench Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: glide ratio Jimmy - =0A=0AWhile you are probably right about glide ratios not doing you much good when the engine quits - I would argue that this discussion is de finitely more than "good chat-room fodder".=0AFor me, the whole point is to know what my true glide ratio is with an engine out - so that as I fly I c an be looking for realistically attainable landing spots should my engine d ie. (And I've had this happen a few times.) Knowing how far I can glide alt ers how and where I fly: my altitude and my route. So I think this is a pre tty critical subject.=0A=0AArty Trost=0ASandy, Oregon=0A=0A-=0Awww.Lesson sFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm=0A=0A=0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"=0AHelen Keller=0A=0A=0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to a rrive safely at death."=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: J immy Young =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sund ay, September 30, 2012 4:28 AM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Re: glide ratio=0A =0A lbers, =0AI guess this information on glide ratios makes for good chat-room fodder, but it will do you no good when that prop quits. You aren't going to remember any of it, nor will you have time to calculate it even if you d id. You will hopefully end up picking the best looking place to land that y ou instinctively know you can make, and fly the the plane there. That's wha t this discussion is really about. =0AIn the two engine outs I had with my old Firestar, I can guarantee you I had no idea what my glide slope was or how it would play into the situation in front of me. I picked a clearing I knew I could make and flew the Kolb to it. One of the best tips I ever read about flying Kolbs was getting used to staying higher on approach and land ing with no power most of the time. By doing that regularly when the day co mes that you lose power, because of all that practice it's just another lan ding though with an added rush of adrenalin, a tight sphincter, & unknown r unway conditions.=0A=0AJimmy Young=0Aformer owner of N7043P Kolb Firestar, but lucky enough to still get to fly it.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic onli ne here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384303#384303 =========================0A ====================== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:08 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: oil usage?? From: "tombaisley" there is a repairman on barnstormers recommending a 40:1 mix for liquid cooled rotax engines? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384329#384329 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: glide ratio From: "wakataka" I agree that knowing the numerical value of your glide ratio is not going to do you a lot of good when the engine quits. The best way to get a feel for the glide ratio and handling qualities of your craft is to practice engine off landings. It gives you the mental picture of how far you can glide, and it also gives you practice landing without power. I encourage anyone flying with 2-stroke or any non-certificated aircraft engine to occasionally kill the engine on base or final, once you know you've got the runway in range. Get some practice flying your airplane as a glider before you have an engine out. Practice side slips and S-turns to lose altitude experiment to find your best L/D speed. The experience you gain will make you a safer pilot and the confidence that you can land safely if the engine quits will make flying more fun. Plus it's really nice and peaceful up there without the noise and vibration. -------- There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. Mark Twain Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384336#384336 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:24 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: glide ratio From: "Jimmy Young" To Arty, Thom,and all other Kolb lovers, I need to apologize for my"chat-room fodder" comment. It was out of place and inaccurate relative to the discussion taking place. I was still waiting on the coffee to brew, & I can get a little short under those conditions. I'm simply more of a "feel" flyer when it comes to awareness of the situation at hand. I know what altitude I'm at, what my airspeed is, how the engine temps are doing, and how much fuel I've got on board at any point of any flight. But when it comes to making mental notes of where I can put down in an emergency, I always have an off-field option spot picked out as we all should. I could not accurately tell you how far away it is from me in feet, but I know instinctively I can make it without knowing what my glide slope is or running calculations in my head. I haven't been flying long, a little over 5 years now & 95% of that was in the Firestar. I made some stupid choices early on that by the grace of God I got away with it, but learned from the events enough to not do it again. I have zero GA experience short of flying in a Cessna 140 & 150 occasionally, so I can see why I discount glide slope numbers. Let's just all agree that flying safe & smart is the way to fly a long time, and we should do it in the way that works best for each of us. Safe flying, Jimmy Young still a lucky guy who gets to fly a Kolb, just not the owner anymore. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384338#384338 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:54 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: glide ratio From: Larry Cottrell Jimmy, I had forgotten what a nice guy, and how polite you are. :-) When a subject comes up again and again with no resolution, it qualifies for CRF . For instance the question of whether a spinning prop slows you more than a stopped prop is still a question. Your email prompted John and I to contemplate that same premise today. He thinks that a spinning prop slows more than no power at all. I of course disagree. I can't get him to fly my plane and try it, and of course he won't believe it until he does try it himself. If I do it he will deep down think that I didn't do it right :-) I have had two engine outs, and done a few of them on a voluntary basis. (Safe conditions, and I knew it, so the stress levels were greatly reduced.) I know that the last one that Arty had, caused the same result that occurred to me on my last one. While you may think at the time that you have every thing under control, in truth if the terrain is hostile, you couldn't pour P out of a boot with the instructions on the heel. The little person inside your brain flips a switch and you go to auto pilot. When you are on the ground, assuming you survive, you will find quite a few things that you could have done better. Invariably when your engine decides to quit it will be in the worst place possible, or a ratio resembling, whether your bread falls butter side down or not. Practice definitely helps and is much better than not at all, however I bet there are a few who think that doing it at idle power will give the same results as doing it with no power. I agree that this subject is very important, I just disagree that anyone will do it any other way than the hard one. Larry On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 6:03 PM, Jimmy Young wrote: > > To Arty, Thom,and all other Kolb lovers, > > I need to apologize for my"chat-room fodder" comment. It was out of place > and inaccurate relative to the discussion taking place. I was still waiting > on the coffee to brew, & I can get a little short under those conditions. > > I'm simply more of a "feel" flyer when it comes to awareness of the > situation at hand. I know what altitude I'm at, what my airspeed is, how > the engine temps are doing, and how much fuel I've got on board at any > point of any flight. But when it comes to making mental notes of where I > can put down in an emergency, I always have an off-field option spot picked > out as we all should. I could not accurately tell you how far away it is > from me in feet, but I know instinctively I can make it without knowing > what my glide slope is or running calculations in my head. > > I haven't been flying long, a little over 5 years now & 95% of that was in > the Firestar. I made some stupid choices early on that by the grace of God > I got away with it, but learned from the events enough to not do it again. > I have zero GA experience short of flying in a Cessna 140 & 150 > occasionally, so I can see why I discount glide slope numbers. Let's just > all agree that flying safe & smart is the way to fly a long time, and we > should do it in the way that works best for each of us. > > Safe flying, > > Jimmy Young > still a lucky guy who gets to fly a Kolb, just not the owner anymore. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384338#384338 > > -- *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.