---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/09/12: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:33 AM - Re: Idle problem? (Roy Spangler) 2. 07:22 AM - Tests of fuel additives (Richard Girard) 3. 07:43 AM - Re: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs (Richard Girard) 4. 07:47 AM - Re: Idle problem? (Richard Girard) 5. 09:08 AM - Re: Idle problem? (Gary Aman) 6. 12:04 PM - Re: Idle Problem? (william sullivan) 7. 01:51 PM - Re: Idle problem? (William Long) 8. 05:18 PM - Re: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs (Gerry Visel) 9. 05:46 PM - Re: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs (Richard Girard) 10. 07:38 PM - Re: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs (Carl Radcliffe) 11. 08:40 PM - Re: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs (Gerry Visel) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Idle problem? From: Roy Spangler Bill, Your idle problem may not be a carb issue. If you have a points ignition, I would look there. I have a 377 that had the exact same problem that you have described, ultimately I convereted to CDI and the problem dissapeared. Just a suggestion. Points on a Rotax are very sensitive. With the air cleaner off does it spit fuel back ? For what it's worth. roy On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 7:42 PM, William Long wrote: > I have a 447 on a firefly with 220 hours my idle has gotten so bad that I > won't fly it now? > It will run past 3000 RPM fine. I checked the idle jet and rebuilt the > pump. > It will run good if i keep pushing in the primer so its a fuel problems? > HELP > > Bill Long > 2000 FireFly > Holt MI > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:30 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Tests of fuel additives From: Richard Girard On the Yahoo! HKS forum this test of fuel additives was posted this morning. I thought it would prove valuable. I know the Sea Foam acolytes will like it. http://www.biobor.com/Practical-Sailor-Fuel-Additives-That-Fight-Corrosion.php You'll have to cut and paste the link, it didn't come across as clickable for some reason. Rick Girard -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:21 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs From: Richard Girard Earlier this year I did flight testing of a Mk IIIX to get performance numbers at weights up to 1200 lb. MTOW. While the plane will fly at that weight, it must be flown very carefully. I set the max weight for the plane at 1100 lb. when I did the log book entry. At that weight it flew quite well. For my own Mk IIIC I used 1050 lb as MTOW. I've attached the Excel spread sheet I use for my IIIC. On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 9:06 PM, Gerry Visel wrote: > > Can anyone tell me what the moment arms for the pilot(s) and for the > fuel in a Mark III Classic are? I'm considering buying one and wanted > to run some numbers. What is the allowable CG range? Max gross? > > Thanx muchly! > Gerry Visel > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Idle problem? From: Richard Girard In addition to the idle jet be sure to clean the passages in the carb body. When my 582 was laid up for more than a year that was the problem area that prevented it from idling properly. Once they were cleared out the engine idled just fine. Rick Girard On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 8:10 PM, wrote: > ** > Bill Long & Others: > > I have had trouble similar to what you are experiencing. After cleaning > the carburetor several times with no improvement, I replaced the idle jet > and that corrected the trouble. The reason I chose to replace the idle jet > was because it had become discolored and I thought perhaps that was a build > up of some contamination, thus causing a lack of fuel flow through it. I > use regular grade auto fuel and it contains up to 10% ethanol. I also > started using StarTron, an additive advertised to help eliminate problems > with ethanol laced fuel. Stabil also makes a product to fight ethanol. > Hope this is of some help to you. > > Bill Varnes > Original Kolb FireStar > Audubon NJ > Do Not Archive > > In a message dated 11/7/2012 7:42:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > blong6826@sbcglobal.net writes: > > I have a 447 on a firefly with 220 hours my idle has gotten so bad that > I won't fly it now? > It will run past 3000 RPM fine. I checked the idle jet and rebuilt the > pump. > It will run good if i keep pushing in the primer so its a fuel problems? > HELP > > Bill Long > 2000 FireFly > Holt MI > > > ============= > ref="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">*www.aeroelectric.com*buildersbooks.com/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">*www.buildersbooks.com*elp.com/ href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">*www.homebuilthelp.com* > ef="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">*http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">*http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List* > p://forums.matronics.com/">*http://forums.matronics.com* > > > * > > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Idle problem? From: Gary Aman You may also have an air leak, either at a gasket in the intake system or t he rubber carb socket which does crack internally .If the exhaust gas temp s are running higher than normal( for the ambient air temps ) at cruise rpm , it may be an indicator of an air leak. G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Roy Spangler Sent: Fri, Nov 9, 2012 8:33 am Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Idle problem? Bill, Your idle problem may not be a carb issue. If you have a points ignition, I would look there. I have a 377 that had the exact same problem that you have described, ultimately I convereted to CDI and the problem dissapeared. Just a suggestion. Points on a Rotax are very sensitive. With the air cleaner off does it spit fuel back ? For what it's worth. roy On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 7:42 PM, William Long wrot e: I have a 447 on a firefly with 220 hours my idle has gotten so bad that I w on't fly it now? It will run past 3000 RPM fine. I checked the idle jet and rebuilt the pump .. It will run good if i keep pushing in the primer so its a fuel problems? HELP Bill Long 2000 FireFly Holt MI _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:35 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Idle Problem? - I had a similar problem with my 447, and John H. suggested I check the seal on the bottom of the enrichener.- Mine had totally disintegrated.- Replacement was very cheap.- The part does not come through in a carb ki t- it has to be ordered separately.- Easy to pull out and check visually. ------------------------- ------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ------------- Original FS, 447 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:53 PM PST US From: William Long Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Idle problem? Looks like it was the idle jet I took it out again and blew through it real hard and its better so im going to soak it in carb cleaner tonight. Bill Long ________________________________ From: Richard Girard Sent: Fri, November 9, 2012 10:51:19 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Idle problem? In addition to the idle jet be sure to clean the passages in the carb body. When my 582 was laid up for more than a year that was the problem area that prevented it from idling properly. Once they were cleared out the engine idled just fine. Rick Girard On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 8:10 PM, wrote: >Bill Long & Others: > >I have had trouble similar to what you are experiencing. After cleaning the >carburetor several times with no improvement, I replaced the idle jet and that >corrected the trouble. The reason I chose to replace the idle jet was because >it had become discolored and I thought perhaps that was a build up of some >contamination, thus causing a lack of fuel flow through it. I use regular >grade auto fuel and it contains up to 10% ethanol. I also started using >StarTron, an additive advertised to help eliminate problems with ethanol laced >fuel. Stabil also makes a product to fight ethanol. Hope this is of some help >to you. > >Bill Varnes >Original Kolb FireStar >Audubon NJ >Do Not Archive > >In a message dated 11/7/2012 7:42:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >blong6826@sbcglobal.net writes: >I have a 447 on a firefly with 220 hours my idle has gotten so bad that I >won't fly it now? >>It will run past 3000 RPM fine. I checked the idle jet and rebuilt the pump. >>It will run good if i keep pushing in the primer so its a fuel problems? >>HELP >> >> >>Bill Long >>2000 FireFly >>Holt MI >> ============== ref="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com >>buildersbooks.com/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com >>elp.com/ href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com >>ef="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>List >>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> p://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >tp://forums.matronics.com > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs From: Gerry Visel Richard, When you were flight testing, how did you know where to set the limits, for both CG and for weight? (What flight characteristics were noticed?) For max weight especially, why would you exceed the designer's recommendation? Have you done anything to the design to make it stronger than original? I would sure hope that the designer had done some stress calcs at the max rated g-loading, (or is that just the engineer in me coming out?) Gerry Visel On Fri, 2012-11-09 at 09:43 -0600, Richard Girard wrote: > Earlier this year I did flight testing of a Mk IIIX to get performance > numbers at weights up to 1200 lb. MTOW. While the plane will fly at > that weight, it must be flown very carefully. I set the max weight for > the plane at 1100 lb. when I did the log book entry. At that weight it > flew quite well. For my own Mk IIIC I used 1050 lb as MTOW. > I've attached the Excel spread sheet I use for my IIIC. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs From: Richard Girard Gerry, The owner wanted the MTOW raised so he could take flight training in his airplane. The airplane is rated for 4 g's at 1000 lb. Raising it to 1100 makes it 3.8 and they've been flown heavier than that, just ask Hauck. I used the same fore and aft limits as a Cessna 172 (and just about every straight winged aircraft ever built) and then flew the aircraft at both limits to see that I had enough elevator power to raise the nose at the forward limit and it did nothing funny when stalled at the aft limit. Rick On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Gerry Visel wrote: > > Richard, > > When you were flight testing, how did you know where to set the > limits, for both CG and for weight? (What flight characteristics were > noticed?) > > For max weight especially, why would you exceed the designer's > recommendation? Have you done anything to the design to make it > stronger than original? I would sure hope that the designer had done > some stress calcs at the max rated g-loading, (or is that just the > engineer in me coming out?) > > Gerry Visel > > On Fri, 2012-11-09 at 09:43 -0600, Richard Girard wrote: > > Earlier this year I did flight testing of a Mk IIIX to get performance > > numbers at weights up to 1200 lb. MTOW. While the plane will fly at > > that weight, it must be flown very carefully. I set the max weight for > > the plane at 1100 lb. when I did the log book entry. At that weight it > > flew quite well. For my own Mk IIIC I used 1050 lb as MTOW. > > I've attached the Excel spread sheet I use for my IIIC. > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:27 PM PST US From: "Carl Radcliffe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs Oh, JUST a colonoscopy. From: Richard Girard Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:46 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs Gerry, The owner wanted the MTOW raised so he could take flight training in his airplane. The airplane is rated for 4 g's at 1000 lb. Raising it to 1100 makes it 3.8 and they've been flown heavier than that, just ask Hauck. I used the same fore and aft limits as a Cessna 172 (and just about every straight winged aircraft ever built) and then flew the aircraft at both limits to see that I had enough elevator power to raise the nose at the forward limit and it did nothing funny when stalled at the aft limit. Rick On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Gerry Visel wrote: Richard, When you were flight testing, how did you know where to set the limits, for both CG and for weight? (What flight characteristics were noticed?) For max weight especially, why would you exceed the designer's recommendation? Have you done anything to the design to make it stronger than original? I would sure hope that the designer had done some stress calcs at the max rated g-loading, (or is that just the engineer in me coming out?) Gerry Visel On Fri, 2012-11-09 at 09:43 -0600, Richard Girard wrote: > Earlier this year I did flight testing of a Mk IIIX to get performance > numbers at weights up to 1200 lb. MTOW. While the plane will fly at > that weight, it must be flown very carefully. I set the max weight for > the plane at 1100 lb. when I did the log book entry. At that weight it > flew quite well. For my own Mk IIIC I used 1050 lb as MTOW. > I've attached the Excel spread sheet I use for my IIIC. ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution le, List Admin. ========== arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11/09/12 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs From: Gerry Visel Yes, that's the right answer(s.) I was worried that someone might do that without thinking through the effects and risks of a higher max weight or "out of limits" CG. I went through all this in college as an aero engineer, but have done hardly any aero work my whole career, (mostly mechanical/hydraulic stuff.) Now that I am near retirement and getting back into flying, I finally get to use some of that practical stuff! (It's a whole lot more fun when it's real!) Gerry On Fri, 2012-11-09 at 19:46 -0600, Richard Girard wrote: > Gerry, The owner wanted the MTOW raised so he could take flight > training in his airplane. The airplane is rated for 4 g's at 1000 lb. > Raising it to 1100 makes it 3.8 and they've been flown heavier than > that, just ask Hauck. > I used the same fore and aft limits as a Cessna 172 (and just about > every straight winged aircraft ever built) and then flew the aircraft > at both limits to see that I had enough elevator power to raise the > nose at the forward limit and it did nothing funny when stalled at the > aft limit. > > > Rick > > On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Gerry Visel wrote: > > > > Richard, > > When you were flight testing, how did you know where to set > the > limits, for both CG and for weight? (What flight > characteristics were > noticed?) > > For max weight especially, why would you exceed the > designer's > recommendation? Have you done anything to the design to make > it > stronger than original? I would sure hope that the designer > had done > some stress calcs at the max rated g-loading, (or is that just > the > engineer in me coming out?) > > Gerry Visel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.