---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/16/13: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:37 AM - Replace 582 with 912 (alienwes) 2. 05:47 AM - Re: Replace 582 with 912 (John Hauck) 3. 07:38 AM - wiring 912 uls (frank goodnight) 4. 07:46 AM - Re: Newbie Question - Kolb MK III Extra or Kolb IV (Steve Simmons) 5. 08:05 AM - Re: wiring 912 uls (b young) 6. 08:34 AM - Re: corvair news (Richard Pike) 7. 08:58 AM - Fw: 912 elect (b young) 8. 09:33 AM - Re: Fw: 912 elect (Herb Gayheart) 9. 10:31 AM - Re: Fw: 912 elect (John Hauck) 10. 11:11 AM - Re: Fw: 912 elect (Herb Gayheart) 11. 11:13 AM - Re: Fw: 912 elect (Herb Gayheart) 12. 11:17 AM - Re: Fw: 912 elect (Herb Gayheart) 13. 01:23 PM - Aileron trim-drag question (Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/ENS) 14. 01:33 PM - Re: Aileron trim-drag question (John Hauck) 15. 01:34 PM - Re: Aileron trim-drag question (Richard Girard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:17 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Replace 582 with 912 From: "alienwes" Was wondering how hard it would be to replace a 582 with a 912 on a Mark III? Just curious as to the level of difficulty.... -------- Wesley Elliott Sport Pilot-PPC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392415#392415 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:12 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Replace 582 with 912 Was wondering how hard it would be to replace a 582 with a 912 on a Mark III? Just curious as to the level of difficulty.... -------- Wesley Elliott The 912 and 582 bolt up the same. Kolb Aircraft can provide parts and technical advice. I initially powered my mkIII with a 582, then repowered with 912. Was a little more difficult to transition back then. We had to design engine mounts, radiator and oil cooler mounts, exhaust system, and reverse throttle control geometry. The 582 pulls throttle open. The 912 pulls throttle closed. Was worth the effort. john h mkIII Woodville, FL ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:23 AM PST US From: frank goodnight Subject: Kolb-List: wiring 912 uls Need help understanding the 912 uls generating sys. looking at page 17-1 fig 29 of the rotax install manual. I need to know if i can check for voltage between one of the yellow (ge) wires and ground, or between the two yellow wires , and if so what should the voltage be. What does the 2,5 and a little square box repesent in the wires going to the G terminals on the rectifier? What is # 11 in fig 29 if it is a diode , what kind and where can i find one. my engine was removed from a wrecked plane and i don't think the hookup used the capaciator or whatever #11 is that is shown in fig 29. thanks to anyone that can help me. Frank Goodnight ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:55 AM PST US From: "Steve Simmons" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Newbie Question - Kolb MK III Extra or Kolb IV Just as a thought I have owned a Kit Fox and a Mark IIIC. As for as SAFETY goes the Kolb has it all over the Kit Fox. However I would suggest you fly both of them before you make your decision. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DGaudette Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 9:20 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Newbie Question - Kolb MK III Extra or Kolb IV Hello. I'm a former Glider/G.A./Gyro pilot looking to get a taildragger. I'm considering both a Kolb MK III Extra AND a Kitfox IV. I just can't find anywhere where someone has compared the two. Any advice? I'm specifically looking at the KF, Kolb or Avid because when I owned a Gyroplane, I trailered it to/from my local airport 3 miles away. I kept it in my barn and avoided hanger fees etc. Any thoughts folks? Thanks. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392391#392391 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:55 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: wiring 912 uls ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:21 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: corvair news From: "Richard Pike" Fascinating read. Thanks for that. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392438#392438 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:48 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Kolb-List: Fw: 912 elect frank contacted me direct and said that only the header came through to me. so I shot this back to him direct. From: b young Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:48 AM Subject: Re: 912 elect I think some how my computer don=99t like forwarding the graphics in your post. this was my reply boyd Need help understanding the 912 uls generating sys. looking at page 17-1 fig 29 of the rotax install manual. I need to know if i can check for voltage between one of the yellow (ge) wires and ground, or between the two yellow wires , and if so what should the voltage be.I would measure from yellow to yellow.... not sure but I think if there is a yellow to ground voltage, there may be a short. I would think the voltage would change with the rpm... but should be greater than 14 v probably around 18 V ac or there about. the regulator/rectifier will convert from ac to dc at the proper charge voltage for the battery. my eis showes 13.8 v dc. What does the 2,5 and a little square box repesent in the wires going to the G terminals on the rectifier?I am thinking, the 2.5@ is the wire size,, EG:2.5 mm squared the battery to the starter motor is 16 @ or 16 mm squared What is # 11 in fig 29 if it is a diode , what kind and where can i find one. it is a 3 W 12 V charge indicating lamp my engine was removed from a wrecked plane and i don't think the hookup used the capaciator or whatever #11 is that is shown in fig 29. thanks to anyone that can help me. I did not use the charge indicator lamp.. the eis shows battery voltage.. but I did use the capacitor shown as item (10) in the diagram between B+ and ground Frank Goodnight boyd young mkiii utah hope this helps ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:12 AM PST US From: Herb Gayheart Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: 912 elect Same as the yellow wires on other Rotaxing engines.. the two yellow wires are the alternator output...AC , whose frequency varies with rpm's. There should be no short to ground when measuring each yellow wire.. The case of the regulator can be ground or there can be a black wire coming out for ground...Red is positive 13.8 or there bouts... The AC input voltage to the regulator can be quite high..though I have never measured it.. This info based on two cycle engines...should be the same for others.. Herb At 10:51 AM 1/16/2013, you wrote: >frank contacted me direct and said that only the >header came through to me. so I shot this back to him direct. > >From: b young >Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:48 AM >To: frank goodnight >Subject: Re: 912 elect > >I think some how my computer don=99t like >forwarding the graphics in your post. >this was my reply >boyd >Need help understanding the 912 uls generating sys. >looking at page 17-1 fig 29 of the rotax install >manual. I need to know if i can check for >voltage between one of the yellow (ge) wires and >ground, or between the two yellow wires , and if >so what should the voltage be.I would measure >from yellow to yellow.... not sure but I think >if there is a yellow to ground voltage, there >may be a short. I would think the voltage would >change with the rpm... but should be greater >than 14 v probably around 18 V ac or there >about. the regulator/rectifier will convert from >ac to dc at the proper charge voltage for the battery. my eis showes 13.8 v dc. >What does the 2,5 and a little square box repesent >in the wires going to the G terminals on the >rectifier?I am thinking, the 2.5@ is the wire >size,, EG:2.5 mm squared the battery to the >starter motor is 16 @ or 16 mm squared >What is # 11 in fig 29 if it is a diode , what >kind and where can i find one. it is a 3 W 12 V charge indicating lamp >my engine was removed from a wrecked plane and i don't >think the hookup used the capaciator or whatever #11 is >that is shown in fig 29. thanks to anyone that >can help me. I did not use the charge indicator >lamp.. the eis shows battery voltage.. but I did >use the capacitor shown as item (10) in the diagram between B+ and ground >Frank Goodnight boyd young mkiii utah hope this helps > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:36 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fw: 912 elect Herb: I am away from home and my manuals. The reg/rec for the 912 series engines are similar, but also quite different from the 2 stroke Rotax engines. john h mkIII Woodville, FL From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Gayheart Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:33 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: 912 elect Same as the yellow wires on other Rotaxing engines.. the two yellow wires are the alternator output...AC , whose frequency varies with rpm's. There should be no short to ground when measuring each yellow wire.. The case of the regulator can be ground or there can be a black wire coming out for ground...Red is positive 13.8 or there bouts... The AC input voltage to the regulator can be quite high..though I have never measured it.. This info based on two cycle engines...should be the same for others.. Herb At 10:51 AM 1/16/2013, you wrote: frank contacted me direct and said that only the header came through to me. so I shot this back to him direct. From: b young Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:48 AM Subject: Re: 912 elect I think some how my computer don=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t like forwarding the graphics in your post. this was my reply boyd Need help understanding the 912 uls generating sys. looking at page 17-1 fig 29 of the rotax install manual. I need to know if i can check for voltage between one of the yellow (ge) wires and ground, or between the two yellow wires , and if so what should the voltage be.I would measure from yellow to yellow.... not sure but I think if there is a yellow to ground voltage, there may be a short. I would think the voltage would change with the rpm... but should be greater than 14 v probably around 18 V ac or there about. the regulator/rectifier will convert from ac to dc at the proper charge voltage for the battery. my eis showes 13.8 v dc. What does the 2,5 and a little square box repesent in the wires going to the G terminals on the rectifier?I am thinking, the 2.5@ is the wire size,, EG:2.5 mm squared the battery to the starter motor is 16 @ or 16 mm squared What is # 11 in fig 29 if it is a diode , what kind and where can i find one. it is a 3 W 12 V charge indicating lamp my engine was removed from a wrecked plane and i don't think the hookup used the capaciator or whatever #11 is that is shown in fig 29. thanks to anyone that can help me. I did not use the charge indicator lamp.. the eis shows battery voltage.. but I did use the capacitor shown as item (10) in the diagram between B+ and ground Frank Goodnight boyd young mkiii utah hope this helps ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:30 AM PST US From: Herb Gayheart Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fw: 912 elect Lots on the net... the output is two yellow wires...shielded...and they go to the reg/rect the inputs which are normally shown with a sign wave inscription .. Rotax choses to mark those with a "G". The + or output goes to a filter cap and a slow blow fuse...30 amp... and on to the plus side of the battery....normally found at the starter solenoid...Capacitor is 22k ufd or there bouts...not critical..just there for noise transients.. All pretty much the same as 2 cycle...Herb At 12:30 PM 1/16/2013, you wrote: >Herb: > >I am away from home and my manuals.=C2 The >reg/rec for the 912 series engines are similar, >but also quite different from the 2 stroke Rotax engines. > >john h >mkIII >Woodville, FL > >From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Gayheart >Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:33 AM >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: 912 elect > >Same as the yellow wires on other Rotaxing >engines.. the two yellow wires are the >alternator output...AC , whose frequency varies >with rpm's. There should be no short to ground >when measuring each yellow wire.. > > The case of the regulator can be ground or > there can be a black wire coming out for > ground...Red is positive 13.8 or there bouts... > The AC input voltage to the regulator can be > quite high..though I have never measured > it.. This info based on two cycle engines...should be the same for others.. > > Herb > > >At 10:51 AM 1/16/2013, you wrote: > >frank contacted me direct and said that only the >header came through to me. so I shot this back to him direct. > >From: b young >Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:48 AM >To: frank goodnight >Subject: Re: 912 elect > >I think some how my computer don=C3=A2=99t like >forwarding the graphics in your ur post. >this was my reply >boyd >Need help understanding the 912 uls generating sys. >looking at page 17-1 fig 29 of the rotax install >manual. I need to know if i can check for >voltage between one of the yellow (ge) wires and >ground, or between the two yellow wires , and if >so what should the voltage be.I would measure >from yellow to yellow.... not sure but I think >if there is a yellow to ground voltage, there >may be a short. I would think the voltage would >change with the rpm... but should be greater >than 14 v probably around 18 V ac or there >about. the regulator/rectifier will convert from >ac to dc at the proper charge voltage for the battery. my eis showes 13.8 v dc. >What does the 2,5 and a little square box repesent >in the wires going to the G terminals on the >rectifier?I am thinking, the 2.5@ is the wire >size,, EG:2.5 mm squared the battery to the >starter motor is 16 @ or 16 mm squared >What is # 11 in fig 29 if it is a diode , what >kind and where can i find one. it is a 3 W 12 V charge indicating lamp >my engine was removed from a wrecked plane and i don't >think the hookup used the capaciator or whatever #11 is >that is shown in fig 29. thanks to anyone that >can help me. I did not use the charge indicator >lamp.. the eis shows battery voltage.. but I did >use the capacitor shown as item (10) in the diagram between B+ and ground >Frank Goodnight boyd young mkiii utah hope this helps > > >=C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 - The Kolb-List Email Forum - > > >=C2 =C2 --> >http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?Kolb-List > > >=C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > >=C2 =C2 --> http://forums.matronics.com > > >=C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 - List Contribution Web Site - >=C2 Thank you for your generous support! >=C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 >=C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >=C2 =C2 --> >http://www.matronics.com/contributio n > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:23 AM PST US From: Herb Gayheart Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fw: 912 elect Here is a link. Lots more there... Herb http://www.search-document.com/pdf/1/8/rotax-912-wiring.html At 12:30 PM 1/16/2013, you wrote: >Herb: > >I am away from home and my manuals.=C2 The >reg/rec for the 912 series engines are similar, >but also quite different from the 2 stroke Rotax engines. > >john h >mkIII >Woodville, FL > >From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Gayheart >Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:33 AM >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: 912 elect > >Same as the yellow wires on other Rotaxing >engines.. the two yellow wires are the >alternator output...AC , whose frequency varies >with rpm's. There should be no short to ground >when measuring each yellow wire.. > > The case of the regulator can be ground or > there can be a black wire coming out for > ground...Red is positive 13.8 or there bouts... > The AC input voltage to the regulator can be > quite high..though I have never measured > it.. This info based on two cycle engines...should be the same for others.. > > Herb > > >At 10:51 AM 1/16/2013, you wrote: > >frank contacted me direct and said that only the >header came through to me. so I shot this back to him direct. > >From: b young >Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:48 AM >To: frank goodnight >Subject: Re: 912 elect > >I think some how my computer don=C3=A2=99t like >forwarding the graphics in your ur post. >this was my reply >boyd >Need help understanding the 912 uls generating sys. >looking at page 17-1 fig 29 of the rotax install >manual. I need to know if i can check for >voltage between one of the yellow (ge) wires and >ground, or between the two yellow wires , and if >so what should the voltage be.I would measure >from yellow to yellow.... not sure but I think >if there is a yellow to ground voltage, there >may be a short. I would think the voltage would >change with the rpm... but should be greater >than 14 v probably around 18 V ac or there >about. the regulator/rectifier will convert from >ac to dc at the proper charge voltage for the battery. my eis showes 13.8 v dc. >What does the 2,5 and a little square box repesent >in the wires going to the G terminals on the >rectifier?I am thinking, the 2.5@ is the wire >size,, EG:2.5 mm squared the battery to the >starter motor is 16 @ or 16 mm squared >What is # 11 in fig 29 if it is a diode , what >kind and where can i find one. it is a 3 W 12 V charge indicating lamp >my engine was removed from a wrecked plane and i don't >think the hookup used the capaciator or whatever #11 is >that is shown in fig 29. thanks to anyone that >can help me. I did not use the charge indicator >lamp.. the eis shows battery voltage.. but I did >use the capacitor shown as item (10) in the diagram between B+ and ground >Frank Goodnight boyd young mkiii utah hope this helps > > >=C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 - The Kolb-List Email Forum - > > >=C2 =C2 --> >http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?Kolb-List > > >=C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > >=C2 =C2 --> http://forums.matronics.com > > >=C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 - List Contribution Web Site - >=C2 Thank you for your generous support! >=C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 >=C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 =C2 -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >=C2 =C2 --> >http://www.matronics.com/contributio n > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:18 AM PST US From: Herb Gayheart Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fw: 912 elect Copyright =A9 ConAir Sports Ltd. All rights reserved. Site home. rotax. cors-air. heated flying gear. shop. contact us. To search for parts or accessories click on the SHOP tab (left) and search in the shop. ConAir Rotax 4 Stroke Service ConAir Sports Banner rotax 4-stroke - ignition & charging 912UL, 912A, 912F, 912ULS, 912S, 914UL and 914F Engines resistance values / trigger gaps of the ignition unit The values indicated below can be checked on the engine installed in the aircraft, after detaching connections: Generator coil (on stator) yellow ' yellow 0.1-0.8 ohms Generator winding yellow ' grounding open circuit Charging coil (on stator) red ' ground 3.2-4.5 ohms Trigger coil green/white ' blue/yellow 115-123 ohms Trigger coil new* (with clamps) white/yellow ' blue/yellow 220-250 ohms Ignition coil, primary connection contact ' ground 0.1-0.4 ohms Ignition coil, secondary high voltage ' high voltage 6.1-6.7 kohms Resistance spark plug connector 4.4-6.0 kohms Trigger gap old style 0.4-0.5mm (16-20 thou) Trigger gap new style with clamps 0.3-0.4mm (12-16 thou) * fitted in serial production, starting with design year 1995 spark plugs & plug gaps ENGINE PLUG TYPE PART NUMBER PLUG GAP CHANGE INTERVAL S (unleaded mogas) CHANGE INTERVALS (avgas) 912UL DCPR7E 897255 0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 ' 0.028 in) 200 hours 100 hours 912A DCPR7E 897255C 0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 ' 0.028 in) 200 hours 100 hours 912F DCPR7E 897255C 0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 ' 0.028 in) 200 hours 100 hours 912ULS DCPR8E 297940 0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 ' 0.028 in) 200 hours 100 hours 912S DCPR8E 297940C 0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 ' 0.028 in) 200 hours 100 hours 914UL X27EPR 897257 0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 ' 0.028 in) 100 hours 100 hours 914F X27EPR 897257C 0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 ' 0.028 in) 100 hours 100 hours resista nce values / trigger gaps of the ignition unit spark plugs & plug gaps All information provided here is correct at the time of publishing to the best of our knowledge, but Rotax recommendations may change at any time without our knowledge. It is the engine owners responsibility to ensure that the engine is fit for flight at all times. The information is provided here free of charge and with no obligation from us to the consumer. To ensure that you have the correct and most up to date information, you should refer to the current Installation, Operators and Maintenance manuals for your engine. The information provided here may not be valid for aircraft outside the UK. Click here for ConAir SportsTerms& Conditions, including website usage policy. [] [] [] [] Always apply the correct heat sink paste to plug threads, see here wiring diagrams The wiring diagram is in the Installation manual for the engine which can be downloaded from the Documentation page at www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com [] wiring diagrams [] does the ignition system need a battery to run the engine? No, the ignition system is completely self generating and redundant (two separate ignition systems). 912 series engines - circuit A fires 1-2 top 3-4 bottom plugs circuit B fires 1-2 bottom 3-4 top plugs 914 series engines - A fires all top, B fires all bottom plugs [] how does the electronic ignition work (basic description)? Rotating magnets in the flywheel generate power as they pass over coil windings on the stator. The power generated is stored in capacitors in the SMD modules until the =93triggers=94 send a signal to the capacitor which then passes the power to the secondary coils, which increase the voltage and send it, via the ignition cables, to the spark plugs. [] generator / regulator Regulators need cooling - mounting in the engine bay is not a good idea and can cause premature failure. The regulator output is 250W at 5500rpm. The output is less at cruise rpms. Do not overload the electrical system - items such as electrically heated clothing put high demands on the charging system. Here is some trouble shooting info on the 912...Charging system...Herb 914 engines rely on the electrical system for the fuel pumps. Improper installation or overloading of the charging system should be avoided. Problem: Battery not charging (I.e. Low voltage) Solutions: Remove the yellow wires and check the resistance between them is 0.3 - 0.8 ohms. If the resistance is infinity then you have a broken wire (open circuit). Re-install the yellow wires, run engine at idle and check output form yellow wires (should be 18-20 AC volts). Check output from B+ terminal or regulator, should be 14 DC volts - check the battery is charged - the regulator needs to be connected to a charged battery to energise it. Problem: The generator is putting out AC volts but the Regulator is not putting out more than battery voltage - regulator is faulty. Solution: Replace the regulator Problem: The generator is not producing AC volts, the stator wiring is faulty. Solution: Check / replace the stator wiring. Replace the stator. Check grounds on Regulator & engine block before ordering new parts! Check your wiring if you fail more than one regulator - faulty regulators are not common but crossed wires are! ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:38 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Aileron trim-drag question From: "Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/ENS" Kolb Friends - Been flying my Mark-3 for a while now (2002), and over the years have strived tried to clean up various airframe details to reduce drag. (Stuff like aileron gap seals, gear leg fairings, etc.) My Kolb requires aileron trim, for straight-and-level flight. I currently use the proven "John Hauck" method for aileron trim - a bungee around the control stick, pulling the stick to one side. Works great, and is cockpit adjustable. But I've been thinking of "upgrading" this system in favor of a proper trim tab on one of the ailerons, to fix my trim requirement. I've been wondering this: Would installing an aileron trim tab cause any MORE or LESS drag than the bungee cord system? Intuitively, I think the drag effect would be equal. But I wanted to hear what the more-experienced minds of my fellow Kolb folk think. Many thanks - Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul, Powerfin-72 in Sandia Park, NM ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:18 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Aileron trim-drag question I've been wondering this: Would installing an aileron trim tab cause any MORE or LESS drag than the bungee cord system? Intuitively, I think the drag effect would be equal. But I wanted to hear what the more-experienced minds of my fellow Kolb folk think. Many thanks - Dennis Kirby If there is any difference, doubt it would be measureable. Why drill holes in the aileron and pop rivets when you already have an infinitely adjustable roll trim system? john h mkIII Woodville, FL ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aileron trim-drag question From: Richard Girard Dennis, Have you tried to find the nature of the trim requirement? Wing incidence the same right and left? Can you pick up the falling wing with rudder input? Rick Girard do not archive On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/ENS < Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil> wrote: > Kolb Friends '**** > > ** ** > > Been flying my Mark-3 for a while now (2002), and over the years have > strived tried to clean up various airframe details to reduce drag. (Stuf f > like aileron gap seals, gear leg fairings, etc.)**** > > ** ** > > My Kolb requires aileron trim, for straight-and-level flight. I currentl y > use the proven =93John Hauck=94 method for aileron trim ' a bungee arou nd the > control stick, pulling the stick to one side. Works great, and is cockpi t > adjustable. But I=92ve been thinking of =93upgrading=94 this system in f avor of > a proper trim tab on one of the ailerons, to fix my trim requirement.**** > > ** ** > > I=92ve been wondering this: Would installing an aileron trim tab cause an y > MORE or LESS drag than the bungee cord system?**** > > ** ** > > Intuitively, I think the drag effect would be equal. But I wanted to hea r > what the more-experienced minds of my fellow Kolb folk think.**** > > ** ** > > Many thanks '**** > > ** ** > > Dennis Kirby**** > > Mark-3, 912ul, Powerfin-72 in**** > > Sandia Park, NM**** > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.