---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/09/13: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:27 AM - Re: slingshot (Ted Cowan) 2. 05:52 AM - For Sale (ed hase) 3. 06:29 AM - Re: Kolb Slingshot (Rodney Payne) 4. 07:01 AM - Re: Kolb Slingshot (John Hauck) 5. 07:19 AM - Re: Kolb Slingshot (herb) 6. 07:28 AM - Re: Kolb Slingshot (John Hauck) 7. 07:36 AM - Re: 582 vs 670 fuel burn (herb) 8. 07:43 AM - Re: Kolb Slingshot (alienwes) 9. 07:50 AM - Re: Kolb Slingshot (alienwes) 10. 08:36 AM - Re: 582 vs 670 fuel burn (John Hauck) 11. 11:58 AM - Re: Kolb Slingshot (Thom Riddle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:27:00 AM PST US From: "Ted Cowan" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: slingshot thought I might reply on line to a couple of questions. Firstly; with the 582 at normal cruise, forget the rpm, around 70 mph, I would get somewhere about 5 gph burn and 6 gph at around 78 mph. More than that if I were packed for camping. Had to tape the rad at cooler temps. The 912 gets me a solid 3 gph burn up to about 4700 rpm, around 75 mph. I now push it harder at 5200 rpm and 95 mph and get around 4 gph burn. In rough air 90s are somewhat bumpy and touchy on the controls but got a tail wind coming back from Thomasville last year and was clocking 126 over the ground. That was nice, dry, cool and smooth. THAT is why I love the 912. I found out I was actually running it too slow. Supposed to run it up to the 5000s for best performance. Actually runs cooler now too. By the way, since Miss Lite changed the gears in my gear box, there is a lot less noise and at the higher rpm, it is quieter and smoother also. Just thought I would throw that in. Have a great day. Looking for warmer weather soon. Ted Cowan, Slingshot, 912 ul, zoom zoom. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:21 AM PST US From: ed hase Subject: Kolb-List: For Sale I have been a subscriber to this list since I bought a Kolb in pieces three years ago. I now have changed the direction I am going and wish to sell the Kolb parts that I have. I have a single seat Firestar without a cage or motor (wings, tale tube and tail plane and control stick is there). It was a wreck in the rebuild process when I acquired it. I was going to finish it and replace my quicksilver with it as it is a more capable airplane, but have ran in to a deal on a two seat Hornet and am going that route. If intrusted contact me and I can send photos. ehase@charter.net 314-681-7050 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:42 AM PST US From: "Rodney Payne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Slingshot Another way to go for you guys with Mark 3s. Take a look at Rotax Ricks 670 engine. I traded in my 582 for one and put it on my Xtra. It puts out 89hp and gets about 1 gph better fuel burn. Basically performs like a 912 on a 582 budget. This is my first yr with it so not alot of time but I put 60 hrs on it this yr and it was flawless. Make the 2 place alot more fun to fly when you have the extra power. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:02 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Slingshot Another way to go for you guys with Mark 3s. Take a look at Rotax Ricks 670 engine. I traded in my 582 for one and put it on my Xtra. It puts out 89hp and gets about 1 gph better fuel burn. Basically performs like a 912 on a 582 budget. This is my first yr with it so not alot of time but I put 60 hrs on it this yr and it was flawless. Make the 2 place alot more fun to fly when you have the extra power. Hopefully, your 670 will prove to be as reliable as a 912 series engine. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:17 AM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Slingshot On 02/09/2013 08:29 AM, Rodney Payne wrote: > Another way to go for you guys with Mark 3s. Take a look at Rotax > Ricks 670 engine. I traded in my 582 for one and put it on my Xtra. It > puts out 89hp and gets about 1 gph better fuel burn. Basically > performs like a 912 on a 582 budget. This is my first yr with it so > not alot of time but I put 60 hrs on it this yr and it was flawless. > Make the 2 place alot more fun to fly when you have the extra power. > Good looking bird.... wondering why the fuel burn is less than the 582? fuel Injection...running at lower rpm's? Herb ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:26 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Slingshot wondering why the fuel burn is less than the 582? fuel Injection...running at lower rpm's? Herb Fuel burn from one aircraft/engine/pilot to another is not consistent and comparisons are not accurate. For my own personal use, I have found that the only way to get accurate fuel burn is during long cross country flights where the throttle is set at cruise rpm and left there. The flight should be started with a full tank and topped off on landing. I get great fuel burn when I am flying local and playing around the airport. A lot of people figure their fuel burn on this type flying. Then, during their first serious cross country flight, they are shocked that there engine is burning so much fuel. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:51 AM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 582 vs 670 fuel burn * I was thinking about the 582 vs 670 fuel burn in the same airframe...? If I understood correctly...the 670 puts out 89 hp and burns less fuel...Herb * * * Fuel burn from one aircraft/engine/pilot to another is not consistent and comparisons are not accurate. For my own personal use, I have found that the only way to get accurate fuel burn is during long cross country flights where the throttle is set at cruise rpm and left there. The flight should be started with a full tank and topped off on landing. I get great fuel burn when I am flying local and playing around the airport. A lot of people figure their fuel burn on this type flying. Then, during their first serious cross country flight, they are shocked that there engine is burning so much fuel. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama * * > * > * ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:51 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Slingshot From: "alienwes" >From what I have been told, the Rotax Rick uses alot of the same parts as a 582 but also has RAVE valves. The max RPM is 7000 and this is where the extra HP comes from. You basically send him your 582 when it needs a rebuild and he turns it into a Rotax Rick 670. What he is doing is common on snowmobiles so he is really just applying it for out use. I have thought of doing it on my PPC with a 582 but would like to transition to a fixed wing 912 Kolb eventually. I will search another forum where Rick put out some good info. -------- Wesley Elliott Sport Pilot-PPC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393916#393916 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:50 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Slingshot From: "alienwes" >From Rotax Rick, > Just so everyone knows a 618 with a 582 exhaust makes only 65 hp. The above 670 was using a 582 exhaust & made 75 hp. The 618 that I sent had no 618 exhaust with it. ( They were impossible to find, that is why I now build 4 different styles of that exhaust myself ) My current exhaust will fit the 618 above and give it the 75 hp it can produce. Here is how it works, send me your runout 582 ( or what evrer condition it's in) The O/H cost is $1650 Add $1500 to that and instead I send you a 670 back. I use your head, carburetors , Ducati Dual ignition & RV shaft. I install the BH ceramic water pump seal,Redo the 670 crank with $480 in parts,new spark plugs,wires boots, Jet the carbs,new carb boots, surface the cylinders & head,make a new coil mount plate,install your RV bottle, your starter and gearbox, The C/E gearbox flywheel is machined to fit the 670 crank. I can do the clutch as well. new pistons ,all new seals & gaskets, open the crank oil feed holes, ETC. The 582 prop will work, You will get 700 rpm more. The 670 redline is 7000 rpm, the same Rotax put on the 618,So just 1 to 2 deg's is fine,EP Dalton runs one now. He use to get 6400 rpm on takeoff, Now he gets 7100 rpm. Doing his 1 hour ride using the same rpm's as the 582 ran he burns 3.5 GPH instead of 5 GPH He runs it at 5600 rpm with floats on a Quicksilver Sprint and he's 235 lbs. > > I did forget to bring up one very important thing, Why did the 670 fail in aircraft years ago ??? They would buy the 93/94 engine, put a 100 hp pipe on it and run it like it came, When I did my first 670 crankshaft I found the reason, The 93/94 670's used the exact same bearing as the early 582's, the 583 snowmobile and the 580 Sea Doo,. That bearing failed in the 582 aircraft engines and failed in the 580 Sea Doo, The 583 did not have the problem because there so fast you can run them wide open for a long time. Rotax put a bigger bearing in the 95 aircraft modle, (and that is still the cause of every 2 out 3 582 engine failures) The aftermark guys double slotted the Sea Doo rods to get more oil to the bearing and that worked. Thats why I say all 582,618's and 670 engines need 40 to 1 oil ratio. Those bearings will fail sooner or latter without it. Here is what I do that makes the 670 work now, In the 98 /99 year high output models ( 132 HP ) they increased the top and bottom eye's and used the same size crank pin & wrist pin, they filled the gap with much larger roller bearings . These are the rods we now use since Jan 2010 and we use double slotted rods to get more oil to the bearing. > Call me for more help & info . I will tell you what to do if you want to build your own. I want to keep things safe and not rune the 670 name, It is the very best 2 cycle engine out there. (239) 572- -------- Wesley Elliott Sport Pilot-PPC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393917#393917 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:11 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 582 vs 670 fuel burn I was thinking about the 582 vs 670 fuel burn in the same airframe...? If I understood correctly...the 670 puts out 89 hp and burns less fuel...Herb I understand that. However, how we get our fuel burn figures have to be consistent or that aren't any good. That's why I shared the illustration about flying around the patch vs cross country. It takes fuel to make power. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama - It's 52F, sun is shining, and I am going to drag Gantt IAP to get the cow crap spread out to dry while I get the mkIII ready to fly to 08A and the EAA Chap 822 monthly meeting. Doesn't look like there is any wind blowing today. I think I can handle that. ;-) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:40 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Slingshot From: "Thom Riddle" ...Then, during their first serious cross country flight, they are shocked that there engine is burning so much fuel. john h... Ain't that the truth. I have a friend who flies a Sonex. After making many flights of generally 1.5 hour duration or less, he figured his fuel consumption at 3.75 gph. Then he flew on a long x-country and landed off-field about 10 miles before his destination 'cuz he ran out of fuel. He figured he had at least 45 minutes fuel remaining at his destination, which he didn't quite make. do not archive -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 no engine FOR SALE Diamond Katana DA20-A1 Rotax 912 F3 Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long. - Anonymous Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393931#393931 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.