---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/17/13: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:15 AM - q (kinne russ) 2. 07:32 AM - Re: q (william sullivan) 3. 09:51 AM - That old bugaboo, liability (Richard Girard) 4. 02:42 PM - Re: That old bugaboo, liability (Dennis Thate) 5. 03:51 PM - 377 (chris davis) 6. 04:10 PM - Re: 377 (John Hauck) 7. 04:53 PM - Kolb Slingshot (herb) 8. 05:20 PM - Re: Kolb Slingshot (John Hauck) 9. 05:27 PM - Re: Kolb Slingshot (herb) 10. 06:53 PM - Kolb Mark III or Cessna Operating Costs (alienwes) 11. 07:30 PM - Re: Kolb Mark III or Cessna Operating Costs (Charlie England) 12. 09:29 PM - Re: Kolb Mark III or Cessna Operating Costs (GARY JINDRA) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:37 AM PST US From: kinne russ Subject: Kolb-List: q Matt Haven't had any posts on the Kolb-list for a week! -- something wrong? I need these! Thanx Russ K ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:08 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q -Russ- There hasn't been any activity at all on the list.- Everybody to o busy shoveling snow. do not archive. --- On Sun, 2/17/13, kinne russ wrote: From: kinne russ Subject: Kolb-List: q Matt Haven't had any posts on the Kolb-list for a week! -- something wrong? I ne ed these! Thanx Russ K le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:58 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: That old bugaboo, liability From: Richard Girard I am fortunate to live in an aviation community. A 2500' grass runway abuts my back yard. For this and the five acres that allows me to feed wild birds and enjoy nature (even the coyotes except when they take one of my guineas or chickens) I am very grateful. So you can probably understand I am not at all happy when some idiot uses our runway in a completely stupid manner. I am also the home owner association president so I have the interests and property values or my neighbors in mind, too. We carry a $1M liability policy for which all of us pay an assessment each year, but with the damage caused by Katrina, Sandy, et al, the possibility of loosing that policy or having the premium raised to a level that is not reasonable should someone make a claim against it, has caused me more than one sleepless night since two incidents happened in the last year. One, where a new property owner was allowing his and his friends children to play on the runway while the friend was trying to teach himself to fly ( I couldn't make this stuff up, cross my heart, it happened) and two, where same owner brings his "instructor and mechanic" to fly the plane. He proceeds to ignore the pattern direction arrows and FAR 91.119 and fly at tree top level over the homes and hangars of many of the members of our HOA until the engine seized and he was barely able to make a crash landing going ACROSS the runway. When questioned by a couple of the members the "instructor" refused to either identify himself or account for his actions. He was actually surly about it until it was explained that he could tone down his attitude or he could talk with a county sherrif deputy. In those sleepless nights I pondered what amendments to the HOA bylaws would allow us to weed out the idiots and whatever other measures we could use to protect ourselves. This last Thursday an article on the ANN "Propwash" newsletter told of the legislature of the State of Arkansas had just past an amendment to their recreational land use act to specifically include aviation. I was immediately interested and went looking on the web for information about similar statutes in Kansas. I found this site. http://theraf.org/sites/default/files/raf_files_videos/recreational_use_statutes_50_state_discussion.pdf Seeing that Kansas statute is of the "including, but not limited to the following" listing of recreational activities I contacted both my legislators to ask that the statutes be amended to specifically include aviation in that list. "Dear Sirs, I request that language be added to Kansas State Statute K.S.A. 58-3201 to 58-3207 to exempt private airports from liability when such airports are open to the general public as defined in the legislation. Small, privately owned airports receive no public funding yet they are a vital resource to Kansas. In times of disaster emergencies or environmental accidents such airports may be the only link for relief, medical care, and evacuation. As such I believe that they should be entitled to specific relief from liability. I would appreciate any effort you are able to give to make this change to our state's Recreational Land Use Act." To my surprise and delight, both my representative and senator responded with a personal note, not just a form letter of the "thank you for contacting me" genre, promising to look into it and address the issue when the legislature returns to session. On Friday I brought the issue to the attention of my EAA chapter and got some more information from other members who live in airport communities. My plans at this point are to A) use my list of chapter newsletter editors to spread the news and ask for more effort from across the state to get the statute amended and B) put up a Facebook page to solicit support and spread the news nationwide (only 16 states specifically mention aviation or aviation sports in the RLUA's) Guys, I urge you all to look up the link and see if your state is one of the 16 or one of the 34. If your state is in the latter group, write to your representatives and get the ball rolling. Okay, Russ, I've given us something that, while it isn't specifically Kolb related, it certainly directly affects Kolb owners and flyers. Hey, it's winter and I'm flying the trike right now (3 flights in January and 1 in February so far) while I plan the repairs of Zulu Delta. Fly Safe, Rick -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:24 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: That old bugaboo, liability From: "Dennis Thate" http://theraf.org/ -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394459#394459 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:58 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Kolb-List: 377 -Kolbers , just wondering if you gent thought a 377 without a fan would b e ok on a Kolb or if it was ridiculous to try ?=0A=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:10 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 377 Kolbers , just wondering if you gent thought a 377 without a fan would be ok on a Kolb or if it was ridiculous to try ? Chris Davis Chris D/Kolbers Don't think you could cool it. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:49 PM PST US From: herb Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Slingshot Kolb Slingshot sn005 is home and safely covered and in the barn... John; it was in Wetumpka at one time...maybe second owner...remember it? Herb ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:04 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Slingshot John; it was in Wetumpka at one time...maybe second owner...remember it? Herb Yes, the SS was owned by a friend of mine. Powered with a 582. I flew the SS. Next time I saw it, after it left Wetumpka, was at a Kolb Homecoming several years ago. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:31 PM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Slingshot I think the guy that I bought it from flew it to the home coming... It has been passed around...but I do not see that it has been damaged . Nor do I see poor construction... 4 or 5 owners in 15 years... not a good sign sometimes...but I surely do not see any flaws... Herb On 02/17/2013 07:20 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > > > John; it was in Wetumpka at one time...maybe second owner...remember > it? Herb > > > > Yes, the SS was owned by a friend of mine. Powered with a 582. I flew the > SS. > > Next time I saw it, after it left Wetumpka, was at a Kolb Homecoming several > years ago. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:23 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Mark III or Cessna Operating Costs From: "alienwes" Hi everyone, Sorry in advance if you do not like the topic, but I am sure others who decided to buy/build a Kolb looked into GA aircraft before making the decision. I have a local Dr. who is selling his Cessna 152 for 14K. He says operating costs are around the $42/hour range. It just had a rebuild 28 hours ago. I am pricing Mark III's and most are in the 20K-30K with a 912. I see some immediate benefits of both. Kolb needs no hangar fees, only a trailer. Kolb can take regular gas Kolb has better performance/climb Kolb has no medical requirement, but I can easily get a medical at age 33 Kolb has less annual costs Cessna is cheaper to start with AV gas is higher Annuals are higher Needs hangar Flies faster/farther Anything I am missing here? What are others operating cost per hour? Thanks, Wes -------- Wesley Elliott Sport Pilot-PPC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394470#394470 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:48 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Mark III or Cessna Operating Costs On 02/17/2013 08:52 PM, alienwes wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Sorry in advance if you do not like the topic, but I am sure others who decided to buy/build a Kolb looked into GA aircraft before making the decision. I have a local Dr. who is selling his Cessna 152 for 14K. He says operating costs are around the $42/hour range. It just had a rebuild 28 hours ago. I am pricing Mark III's and most are in the 20K-30K with a 912. I see some immediate benefits of both. > > Kolb needs no hangar fees, only a trailer. > Kolb can take regular gas > Kolb has better performance/climb > Kolb has no medical requirement, but I can easily get a medical at age 33 > Kolb has less annual costs > > Cessna is cheaper to start with > AV gas is higher > Annuals are higher > Needs hangar > Flies faster/farther > > Anything I am missing here? > What are others operating cost per hour? > > Thanks, > > Wes > > -------- > Wesley Elliott Sport Pilot-PPC You really need to define your 'mission'. The Cessna could be moderately useful for travel, even for 2 (small) people. But probably a lot less fun than the Kolb. You can purchase an auto fuel STC for it, assuming you can find alcohol free mogas in your area. But it will almost certainly burn more of it. Medicals have gotten expensive where I live, even if you have no trouble passing them. You don't really *need* a hangar for a Cessna; it just keeps it in better shape. Annuals can be really cheap if nothing's wrong & the IA will let you do all the work, but if he isn't accommodating, they can be really expensive. Also, there's the ever present threat of AD's. Any time the ownership of a particular product on the plane (carb, mags, engine parts, Anything) changes hands, there will be an $AD$ on that product. Count on it. A friend purchased an old 150 that had been out of annual for several years. He paid something like 8-9 thousand for the plane, with a ferry permit to get it home. The 1st annual (before he could fly it again) included rebuilding a twisted wing & cost more than the plane. Only anecdotal, but it's not that unusual with older planes. How familiar are you with the history of each plane? Charlie (Cessna's are only fun until you fly something better....) :-) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:40 PM PST US From: GARY JINDRA Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Mark III or Cessna Operating Costs Wes,you didn't say if you have your pilots license or not.Cessna's take G.A . =0Acertificate,Kolbs Sport pilot certificate.G.A.takes 40 hours,Sport tak es =0A20.National average for GA is close to 70hours.Sport is closer to 30 to 35.Makes =0Aa big difference in cost to start flying.=0A-=0AGary Jindr a=0AMark 3 117 hrs.=0A=0ASport Pilot=0A=0A=0A______________________________ __=0AFrom: alienwes =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.co m=0ASent: Sun, February 17, 2013 9:52:52 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Kolb Mark wes" =0A=0AHi everyone,=0A=0ASorry in advance if you do not like the topic, but I am sure others who decided =0Ato buy/build a Kolb looked into GA aircraft before making the decision. I have a =0Aloc al Dr. who is selling his Cessna 152 for 14K. He says operating costs are =0Aaround the $42/hour range. It just had a rebuild 28 hours ago. I am pric ing Mark =0AIII's and most are in the 20K-30K with a 912. I see some immedi ate benefits of =0Aboth.=0A=0AKolb needs no hangar fees, only a trailer.=0A Kolb can take regular gas=0AKolb has better performance/climb=0AKolb has no medical requirement, but I can easily get a medical at age 33=0AKolb has l ess annual costs=0A=0ACessna is cheaper to start with=0AAV gas is higher=0A Annuals are higher=0ANeeds hangar=0AFlies faster/farther=0A=0AAnything I am missing here?=0AWhat are others operating cost per hour?=0A=0AThanks,=0A =0AWes=0A=0A--------=0AWesley Elliott=0ASport Pilot-PPC=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p= ======================= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.