---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/03/13: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:13 AM - Re: who can fly what (Thom Riddle) 2. 06:45 AM - Re: who can fly what (Pat Ladd) 3. 06:51 AM - Re: who can fly what (Herb Gayheart) 4. 08:08 AM - Re: who can fly what (Pat Ladd) 5. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: who can fly what (Richard Girard) 6. 10:29 AM - Re: who can fly what (Thom Riddle) 7. 12:47 PM - Re: who can fly what (Charlie England) 8. 01:41 PM - Re: who can fly what (John Hauck) 9. 03:42 PM - Re: who can fly what (Dana Hague) 10. 03:42 PM - Re: Re: who can fly what (Dana Hague) 11. 05:43 PM - Re: who can fly what (George Bearden) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:56 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: who can fly what From: "Thom Riddle" Another way to put it is this. 1) If the FAA proves to themselves that a pilot is medically unfit, he can no longer fly any aircraft, legally. 2) If you don't give the FAA a chance to do this every six month, year, two years, or five years (depending upon the class of medical etc) then you can't fly aircraft that don't meet the LSA limitations. Convoluted thinking, I know, but the phrasing fits the FAA thinking on the subject. Merriam-Webster says: Definition of AIRCRAFT : a vehicle (as an airplane or balloon) for traveling through the air According to the FAA our ULs are not aircraft (just vehicles), which bends the Webster definition past its elastic limit, but that is the FAA for you. It seems that to qualify to be an FAA regulations writer, one must be a native speaker of gibberish, or a lawyer, which is redundant. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 no engine FOR SALE Diamond Katana DA20-A1 Rotax 912 F3 Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long. - Anonymous Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397720#397720 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:06 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: who can fly what had a dissy spell and went to the doctor >> Hi Malcolm, very sensible and in that case the system worked as it is supposed to. What happens if someone self certifies themselves as being fitand then has a medically related accident.Can the FAA go after him? Be very difficult in court unless it could be proved that it was a known preexisting condition. I don`t think the self certification system would survive a high profile crash into a crowd with a couple dead would it. The problem is with the nutcases. We had one guy who, with a license but with only a little experience in 3 axis a/c bought himself a gyrocopter and tried to make his first flight in it in a crowded municipal park. Luckily the silly sod rammed a tree and killed himself before he had the chance to kill anyone else. You can`t legislate against stupidity. Long may self certification flourish. Pat ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:04 AM PST US From: Herb Gayheart Subject: Re: Kolb-List: who can fly what What does one do when the legislators are stupid?? :-) Herb At 08:44 AM 4/3/2013, you wrote: >had a dissy spell and went to the doctor >> > >Hi Malcolm, >very sensible and in that case the system worked as it is supposed to. > >What happens if someone self certifies themselves as being fitand >then has a medically related accident.Can the FAA go after him? >Be very difficult in court unless it could be proved that it was a >known preexisting condition. > >I don`t think the self certification system would survive a high >profile crash into a crowd with a couple dead would it. > >The problem is with the nutcases. We had one guy who, with a >license but with only a little experience in 3 axis a/c bought >himself a gyrocopter and tried to make his first flight in it in a >crowded municipal park. Luckily the silly sod rammed a tree and >killed himself before he had the chance to kill anyone else. You >can`t legislate against stupidity. >Long may self certification flourish. > >Pat > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:49 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: who can fly what <> Thanks for explanation Dana. I understand it.. I still don`t think that is what the above quote says Pat ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: who can fly what From: Richard Girard Thom, It's not gibberish, it's legalese. The FAA mandate from Congress is to manage and control the airspace and all the aircraft within it. To abstain from this mandate and accommodate ultralights they did the unimaginable and relinquished control by calling them vehicles. Rather than chide or berate them I think whoever had the genius to do that should be put on a pedestal for praise and admiration. It was an amazing and wonderful piece of thinking and on top of that they put it into law. Despite pissing, moaning and out right cheating it has remained the law and continues to be an excellent example of bureaucratic restraint. Rick Girard On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Thom Riddle wrote: > > Another way to put it is this. > > 1) If the FAA proves to themselves that a pilot is medically unfit, he can > no longer fly any aircraft, legally. > 2) If you don't give the FAA a chance to do this every six month, year, > two years, or five years (depending upon the class of medical etc) then you > can't fly aircraft that don't meet the LSA limitations. > > Convoluted thinking, I know, but the phrasing fits the FAA thinking on the > subject. > > Merriam-Webster says: > Definition of AIRCRAFT > > : a vehicle (as an airplane or balloon) for traveling through the air > > According to the FAA our ULs are not aircraft (just vehicles), which bends > the Webster definition past its elastic limit, but that is the FAA for you. > It seems that to qualify to be an FAA regulations writer, one must be a > native speaker of gibberish, or a lawyer, which is redundant. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > Buffalo, NY (9G0) > > Kolb Slingshot SS-021 > no engine > FOR SALE > > Diamond Katana DA20-A1 > Rotax 912 F3 > > Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long. > - Anonymous > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397720#397720 > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:29:29 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: who can fly what From: "Thom Riddle" Rick, Your are correct. We are fortunate indeed to have Part 103, unique in the world, I believe. I was actually making fun of lawyers more than the FAA. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 no engine FOR SALE Diamond Katana DA20-A1 Rotax 912 F3 Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long. - Anonymous Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397755#397755 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:34 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: who can fly what On 04/03/2013 10:08 AM, Pat Ladd wrote: > <> > Thanks for explanation Dana. I understand it.. > I still don`t think that is what the above quote says > Pat > *I think that the rest of the sentence is implied: *if you once did have a medical, the most recent one (which could be the one you just took or the one you're about to take) can't be failed if you want to keep your flying privileges in any category/class (except ultralite and/or glider) after that most recent medical. Ultralites & gliders can be flown regardless of any medical; taken or not taken, passed or failed. Charlie ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:03 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: who can fly what You can`t legislate against stupidity. Long may self certification flourish. Pat Patrick L/Kolbers: Even British certification cannot prevent some experienced pilots from crashing into their neighbor's hanger. I've been flying actively for 45 years. I was a late bloomer. Did not solo until I was 29 years old. I now fly as a sport pilot with self certification for my medical. I forgot to renew it last August. Was already headed West on my annual journey. Very convenient to be able to do that, plus saved me $75.00. Still undecided if I will get another flight physical or not. Probably will. That would make me legal to fly at night, and less the other normal Sport Pilot restrictions. At times I get caught out at night, but my insurance would not now pay as a Sport Pilot if I had an accident. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:02 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: who can fly what At 09:50 AM 4/3/2013, Herb Gayheart wrote: >What does one do when the legislators are stupid?? :-) Herb What does one do when they're smart? I realize it happens so rarely... Dana -- Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:02 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: who can fly what At 08:13 AM 4/3/2013, you wrote: >Merriam-Webster says: >Definition of AIRCRAFT > >: a vehicle (as an airplane or balloon) for traveling through the air > >According to the FAA our ULs are not aircraft (just vehicles), which bends >the Webster definition past its elastic limit, but that is the FAA for you. Actually, nowhere in the regulations does it say that an ultralight vehicle isn't an aircraft, only that Part 91 applies to "aircraft other than ultralight vehicles", which implies this ULs are just a different category of aircraft. FAR 1.1 says "Aircraft means a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air." Dana -- Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:38 PM PST US From: "George Bearden" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: who can fly what I think most of this interminable thread would dry up if all of the participants would first study the source material. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.