---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/04/13: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:07 AM - Re: Re: who can fly what (Pat Ladd) 2. 05:50 AM - Re: who can fly what (Malcolm Brubaker) 3. 06:40 AM - Re: who can fly what (John Hauck) 4. 07:19 AM - Re: who can fly what (Dennis Thate) 5. 05:07 PM - Re: who can fly what (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:02 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: who can fly what According to the FAA our ULs are not aircraft (just vehicles), >> Hi Thom, That's a nice one. One could argue that in that case you are not under their jurisdiction in any shape or form.. Luckily here the CAA just added microlights as another class of flying machine and wrote a specification, in consultation with the BMAA, therefore there is no doubt of your planes category .Consequently we have no limit to the amount of fuel we carry, speed or height at which we can fly. There is a formula based on wing loading and maximum weight and a maximum stalling speed. This stops the evolution of a `lead sled` which might be difficult to handle. This has not stopped several microlights now cruising at 100 mph plus and the max weight has been adjusted upwards to accommodate improved ,but heavier designs. Many pilots who flew `real` planes are switching to the upper end of the microlight range for financial reasons. You have your own doctors medical declaration. Cost around 10 or20 depending on how well you know him instead of an expensive medical by an `approved`examiner. At least 150. Increased range of self maintenance, cheaper insurance. Performance often better, certainly more fuel efficient. I have a friend with a Tiger Moth. When I was flying my Eurostar I could take off as he flew overhead. Climb to his height and overtake him within a few miles. When I told him my costs compared to his he nearly had a fit. Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:00 AM PST US From: Malcolm Brubaker Subject: Re: Kolb-List: who can fly what I am in florida now early for sun fun so i wont return email consistently. for a while.- my first year volintering sun fun-I told this guy i wante d to fly in that chalanger and he told me he owned that plane and we tried to stop his friend as he taxied buy the pilot just looked at us and gave us a in a minut juster. the pilot then took off had a stroke on down wind and stufed it in the dirt on down wind rite ther at sun fun ,killing him self instently,-he was a high time ga pilot that lost his medical and was flyi ng UL trainers for that reason.- this is- another reason why they- di d away with UL trainers- with NO medical required, alot of ga pilots took up ul trainor flying,--a common -UL phrase was your only one medical away from being a UL-pilot -=0A=0A=0AMalcolm & Jeanne Brubaker =0AMich igan Sport Pilot Repair =0Ahttp://michigansportpilotrepair.com/=0ALSRM-A, P PC, WS=0AGreat Sails - Sailmaker =0Afor Ultralight & Light Sport=0A(989)513 -3022=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Herb Gayheart =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday , April 3, 2013 7:50 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List: who can fly what=0A=0A=0A What does one do when the legislators are stupid?? :-)-- Herb =0A=0AAt 08:44 AM 4/3/2013, you wrote:=0A=0Ahad a dissy spell and went to the doctor >>=0A>-=0A>Hi Malcolm,=0A>very sensible- and in that case the system w orked as it is supposed to.=0A>-=0A>What happens if someone self certifie s themselves as being fitand then has a medically related accident.Can the FAA go after him?=0A>Be very difficult in court unless it could be proved t hat it was a known preexisting condition.=0A>-=0A>I don`t think the self certification system would survive a high profile crash into a crowd with a couple dead would it.=0A>-=0A>The problem is with the nutcases. We had o ne guy who, with- a license but with only a little experience in 3 axis a /c bought himself a gyrocopter and tried to make his first flight in it in a crowded municipal park. Luckily the silly sod rammed a tree and killed hi mself before he had the chance to kill anyone else. You can`t legislate aga inst stupidity.=0A>Long may self certification flourish.=0A>-=0A>Pat=0A> ============= ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:15 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: who can fly what the pilot then took off had a stroke on down wind and stufed it in the dirt on down wind rite ther at sun fun ,killing him self instently, he was a high time ga pilot that lost his medical and was flying UL trainers for that reason. Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker Malcolm B/Kolbers: I believe this is the accident you refer to above: http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id 001206X01159&ntsbno=MI A94LA121&akey=1 I was flying the Kolb factory MKIII. Took off behind the accident aircraft. Watched helplessly as the aircraft started its left descending turn until it crashed. The accident aircraft was a newly designed and built Tundra from Canada. The gentleman killed in the crash was a PVT pilot. Don't believe he was flying it because he lost his medical, but was demonstrating a newly developed kit plane. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:51 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: who can fly what From: "Dennis Thate" [quote="GeoB"]I think most of this interminable thread would dry up if all of the participants would first study the source material. > [b] Just because their paranoid, doesnt mean the Feds are not out to get them. [Wink] -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397846#397846 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:26 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: who can fly what Even if the description of pilot & accident mentioned below is accurate, it doesn't represent the statistical reality in health/accident records for those flying without a medical. If it did, you wouldn't see the FAA actively considering self certification for many pilots with a 3rd class medical. The reason that the FAA is actively considering this is because they now have a good statistical sample from the sport pilot community showing a very 'clean' record. Charlie On 04/04/2013 07:49 AM, Malcolm Brubaker wrote: > I am in florida now early for sun fun so i wont return email > consistently. for a while. my first year volintering sun fun I told > this guy i wanted to fly in that chalanger and he told me he owned > that plane and we tried to stop his friend as he taxied buy the pilot > just looked at us and gave us a in a minut juster. the pilot then took > off had a stroke on down wind and stufed it in the dirt on down wind > rite ther at sun fun ,killing him self instently, he was a high time > ga pilot that lost his medical and was flying UL trainers for that > reason. this is another reason why they did away with UL trainers > with NO medical required, alot of ga pilots took up ul trainor > flying, a common UL phrase was your only one medical away from being > a UL pilot > Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker > Michigan Sport Pilot Repair > http://michigansportpilotrepair.com/ > LSRM-A, PPC, WS > Great Sails - Sailmaker > for Ultralight & Light Sport > (989)513-3022 > > *From:* Herb Gayheart > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2013 7:50 AM > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: who can fly what > > What does one do when the legislators are stupid?? :-) Herb > > At 08:44 AM 4/3/2013, you wrote: >> had a dissy spell and went to the doctor >> >> >> Hi Malcolm, >> very sensible and in that case the system worked as it is supposed to. >> >> What happens if someone self certifies themselves as being fitand >> then has a medically related accident.Can the FAA go after him? >> Be very difficult in court unless it could be proved that it was a >> known preexisting condition. >> >> I don`t think the self certification system would survive a high >> profile crash into a crowd with a couple dead would it. >> >> The problem is with the nutcases. We had one guy who, with a license >> but with only a little experience in 3 axis a/c bought himself a >> gyrocopter and tried to make his first flight in it in a crowded >> municipal park. Luckily the silly sod rammed a tree and killed >> himself before he had the chance to kill anyone else. You can`t >> legislate against stupidity. >> Long may self certification flourish. >> >> Pat >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.