Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:01 AM - Re: Firestar II stall speed... (frank goodnight)
2. 06:05 AM - Re: Re: Firestar II stall speed... (Gary Aman)
3. 06:44 AM - Re: New Purchase of Used Xtra (Richard Girard)
4. 06:49 AM - Re: Lift Reserve Indicator (Richard Girard)
5. 06:55 AM - Re: Lift Reserve Indicator (Robert Laird)
6. 07:02 AM - Re: Firestar II stall speed... (Richard Girard)
7. 07:18 AM - New flights stall/spin (Mike Welch)
8. 07:25 AM - Re: Lift Reserve Indicator (Richard Girard)
9. 07:34 AM - Lift Reserve Indicator (Mike Welch)
10. 10:20 AM - Re: Firestar II stall speed... (Arizona Flyer)
11. 11:05 AM - Re: Stripped threads on tail nut. (Arizona Flyer)
12. 05:57 PM - Re: Firestar II stall speed... (dcharter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar II stall speed... |
Hi ,
Not trying to be a smart alec or a know it all. I believe that most pilots would
agree
when flying a new --to you -- airplane alone and for the first time one should
at least
go and do a couple of approach stalls before the first landing that way no
surprises .
Even then it's hard to believe how fast a firestar will drop out from under you
with
low power and low airspeed.Good luck , landing a fire star does get very easy
after a while.
Frank
Firestar 2
________________________________
From: Arizona Flyer <heracesthesun@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, May 9, 2013 3:32:43 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar II stall speed...
I bought a pre owned Firestar II and all my research indicated a 30mph stall
speed. I was shocked on my first landing at my short airstrip when it dropped
from about 4ft. and bounced hard yikes! No damage but I approached at 42mph and
backed it off just before the runway threshold, a quick glance showed 36mph
right before it stalled which would be 35mph. My Firestar log book list the
weight at 419 lbs. I am so fortunate I was not higher when this happened. This
makes me concerned for other new Firestar pilots who may also experience this
somewhat dangerous surprise with a 30mph stall speed in mind. I would have never
tried to slow it down so much on a longer runway but I had to for the short
strip. On the next 3 landings I kept 42mph approach and 40mph at threshold and
held that speed until my wheels were 1ft or 2ft above the ground then cut power
and did well then. Is 419 lbs heavy or around normal for this airplane? Is 35mph
stall speed common? I've spent a few days extend!
ing my runway to accommodate for a 5 mph faster Firestar than I expected. I have
learned a lot from the fine folks on this forum. I just joined to make my first
post. I will do my best to be a valuable contributor here. Thanks for any
replies :)
--------
"Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life
just to arrive safely at death"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400204#400204
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar II stall speed... |
Do your practice approaches at 2000' above the ground on your first flight.
Make it as long a flight as you can but close to the field.Find out where i
t stalls,how slow it will fly,and what it feels like before it quits.A sens
itive altimeter is a great plus on your first fact finding flight.The first
flight is usually a little scary,but nothing is as dangerous as crow hops.
Make the first approach to landing a long one and the advice to fly it down
to a wheel landing is not bad either,but you can do full stall landings to
o as long as it's from a few inches above the ground.
If you don't care for the abrupt stalls these high performance aircraft
provide,you might consider VGs.I didn't have them on the FS2 I built in 199
9 and I loved that plane for the 750hrs I had it, but I have them on the MK
3 and have flown other MK3s from 65-100hp with and without VGs and they mak
e such a dramatic difference when you are slow that I would REALLY recommen
d them on ANY Kolb.(Sorry John).
G.Aman FS2 503 750hrs MK3C Jabiru 2200a 800hrs.
-----Original Message-----
From: wakataka <wakataka@charter.net>
Sent: Fri, May 10, 2013 4:10 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar II stall speed...
I had the same experience on the first few landings with my Firestar 1. If
you
bring it in slow, it will just quit flying all at once about the time you e
xpect
it to begin to settle. So far, I've found that wheel landings work better t
he
stall landings. That way you can bring it in a little hot and avoid that si
nking
feeling when it quits flying before you're ready. That doesn't work so well
on
short fields, though.
I've only got about 30 hours in the Firestar so I'm sure there's things I'
ve
yet to learn about it, but so far it seems like a very honest little airpla
ne
with only a few minor quirks.
--------
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale retur
ns of
conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
Mark Twain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400237#400237
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| Subject: | Re: New Purchase of Used Xtra |
Brad, The most important thing for a IIIX is the wing angle of incidence.
Early models were set up exactly like IIIC's and this resulted in the duck
bill flying at a negative angle of attack causing a lot of unnecessary,
parasitic drag.
How to tell if the incidence is correct? Fortunately, it's relatively easy.
First, look at the forward attach points of the horizontal stabilizer. If
they are on the center line of the boom tube, the wings most likely have
the new, factory recommended, lower incidence angle. If the attach point is
high up on the boom, like a Mk IIIC, the wings are most likely set too
high. The high mounting point causes problems when you move them downward
into the low position. They will be slightly bound by the change as the
rear attach point stays the same while the front becomes wider.
Second, aluminum gear legs. If the aircraft has aluminum gear legs (you can
tell them because they are straight and tapered from where they come out of
the fuselage to the wheel fittings) the wings are almost certainly set in
the high position. If they are not, the aircraft will be difficult to lift
off and land properly. Most specifically, it will tend to land tail wheel
first.
Third, and this is a little harder to see, Pull the wing gap cover. If the
bottom of the wings are above the top of the windshield, i.e., above the
top windshield former tube, the wings are set in the high position.
Even if your new baby has the wings set in the early, high position, it can
be fixed. It's a PITA, but it can be done. The most time consuming, and
expensive, is making a new gap cover. The new, lower incidence will put the
bottom of the wing below the windshield frame so the gap cover becomes a
bit more complex to fit.
One other thing to look at concerning wings. Check the condition of the
forward spar attach pin holes. They should be round and fit the pin snugly.
If they are oblong or a sloppy fit this is an unsafe condition, IMHO, and
should be fixed before the plane is flown.
Last, before you fly it, get some time in a sailplane and learn to wheel
land. Regardless of where the wing is set, the Mk III, either model, is
very easy to land tail wheel first. If you have aluminum gear legs, they
will almost certainly get bent. The other issue that learning to wheel land
will fix is landing too high, another main gear bender.
watch my video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ-YaW9WgEU and pay
attention to how the sight picture changes as more flap is used and how low
to the ground your sight line is.
Make all your landings without flaps at first, but make your take offs with
one notch of flaps. Take off is almost automatic with one notch of flaps.
Hold the stick in neutral position and feed in power. You'll be off the
ground in less than 200 feet and you will not have moved the stick at all.
Watch for the nose to come up when you take the flaps off.
Good luck and enjoy your new plane. Try not to drool and consult a
physician if your smile lasts more than four hours.
Rick Girard
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 9:23 PM, Brad Nation <nationcap@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I will be purchasing a used Xtra with a 912 100hp Rotax shortly as this
> will be my first airplane purchase this will be unfamiliar territory. Any
> pointers and suggestions on the buying process and evaluating the airplane
> would be appreciated. Are there any specifics related to the Kolb/Kolb
> Xtra or Rotax that I should be looking for?
>
> I'm so excited!
>
> Once again, thanks in advance,
> Brad
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Reserve Indicator |
Dennis, it was a few years ago. Scott, as I recall, was his first name,
sorry I forget his last (England?) He and his partner built a beautiful Mk
IIIX. He was a new pilot with a Sport Pilot ticket and spun in when he
stalled the airplane on the base to final turn.
Rick
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>wrote:
> I read below that we lost a member in a stall spin accident, I've been off
> list for quite a while and had missed this. I'm saddened to hear, but have
> to ask who it was?
>
> Skid Rowe
> Mk 3 2si 690, PA
> Do not archive
>
> On May 9, 2013, at 10:41 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I sent the article to start a discussion since the Kolb list has been
> pretty quiet these days and it achieved that goal.
> In defense of the idea, where is that most stall/spin accidents occur? At
> low speeds while approaching or departing an airport. Jim's indicator, as
> you can see from the picture, is located at the top of his panel where it
> can attract attention during that critical phase when the pilot's eyes
> should be outside the cockpit looking for traffic.
> We've lost one list member to a landing stall/spin on his very first
> flight in his newly completed IIIX. Would an LRI helped? No way to know,
> but angle of attack gauges are the latest rage to combat the stall/spin
> accident and Jim came up with a homebuilder's solution that's inexpensive
> and uncomplicated.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
> *
>
> ==================================
> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ===================================cs.com
> ===================================matronics.com/contribution
> ==================================
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Reserve Indicator |
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>wrote:
> I read below that we lost a member in a stall spin accident, I've been off
> list for quite a while and had missed this. I'm saddened to hear, but have
> to ask who it was?
August 10, 2009 (from a John Hauck email on the Kolb-List):
*"Brad Stump, flying his Kolb MKIIIx, and a passenger died Saturday.*
*
Brad trailered his MKIIIx to the Kolb Homecoming last year.
http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10878641
The accident is also listed in the FAA Preliminary Accident Reports for 10
Aug."*
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar II stall speed... |
Travis, one the world's best people, clued my in after I had become dear
friends with Mr. Hydraulic Press while straightening main gear legs.
Wheel land, wheel land, wheel land. It's that simple. Don't even try for a
full stall landing, just wheel it on.
Rick Girard
On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 8:00 AM, frank goodnight <frank.goodnight@att.net>wrote:
> Hi ,
> Not trying to be a smart alec or a know it all. I believe that most pilots
> would agree
> when flying a new --to you -- airplane alone and for the first time one
> should at least
> go and do a couple of approach stalls before the first landing that way no
> surprises .
> Even then it's hard to believe how fast a firestar will drop out from
> under you with
> low power and low airspeed.Good luck , landing a fire star does get very
> easy after a while.
> Frank
> Firestar 2
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Arizona Flyer <heracesthesun@yahoo.com>
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thu, May 9, 2013 3:32:43 PM
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Firestar II stall speed...
>
>
> I bought a pre owned Firestar II and all my research indicated a 30mph
> stall speed. I was shocked on my first landing at my short airstrip when it
> dropped from about 4ft. and bounced hard yikes! No damage but I approached
> at 42mph and backed it off just before the runway threshold, a quick glance
> showed 36mph right before it stalled which would be 35mph. My Firestar log
> book list the weight at 419 lbs. I am so fortunate I was not higher when
> this happened. This makes me concerned for other new Firestar pilots who
> may also experience this somewhat dangerous surprise with a 30mph stall
> speed in mind. I would have never tried to slow it down so much on a longer
> runway but I had to for the short strip. On the next 3 landings I kept
> 42mph approach and 40mph at threshold and held that
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 7
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| Subject: | New flights stall/spin |
> Dennis, it was a few years ago. Scott, as I recall, was his first name, sorry
I forget his last (England?) He and his partner
> built a beautiful Mk IIIX. He was a new pilot with a Sport Pilot ticket and spun
in when he stalled the airplane on the base to final turn.
>
> Rick
Robert Laird, the reference to a MkIIIX pilot that died on a maiden flight is as
follows:
Rick G, Kolbers,
His name was Scott Thompson, Kolb-list frequent contributor, with building assistance
of
his friend Paul (never knew Paul's last name).
BTW, just after Scott's maiden flight and subsequent crash, I talked to his wife.
From what
I recall, it doesn't appear that Scott made "a LOT" of stall/spin practice maneuvers
from her
description of his flying that evening. IIRC, all he did was "go out and fly
around", and then
came back in for his first (and tragic) landing.
Frank's advice for a new pilot to do several stall/spin practice maneuvers is
excellent
advice.
Mike Welch
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Reserve Indicator |
Different accident Robert.
Here's the NTSB Factual Report
http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/xmceaj45y0stth45pylpnl551/J05102013120000.pdf
and here's the final
http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/5ulae355krrtfn45s0twgm2t1/G05102013120000.pdf
Rick Girard
On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>wrote:
>
>> I read below that we lost a member in a stall spin accident, I've been
>> off list for quite a while and had missed this. I'm saddened to hear, but
>> have to ask who it was?
>
>
> August 10, 2009 (from a John Hauck email on the Kolb-List):
>
> *"Brad Stump, flying his Kolb MKIIIx, and a passenger died Saturday.*
> *
> Brad trailered his MKIIIx to the Kolb Homecoming last year.
>
> http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10878641
>
> The accident is also listed in the FAA Preliminary Accident Reports for 10
> Aug."*
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 9
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| Subject: | Lift Reserve Indicator |
Two things.
First, Rick Lewis: You mentioned something about a pilot being concentrated too
much on
"electronic gages". For the record, the Lift Reserve Indicator shared to the list
by Rick G
is ONLY a sensitive air pressure gage, and necessary tubing and pitot mast. No
electronics.
Listers: If anyone on the list is interested, I have the "real" thing, i.e., the
Lift Reserve Indicator" made and
sold by LRI, Inc. As Rick G mentioned, the gage is a super sensitive Dwyer (I
have 4 additional gages
I bought on eBay ( 0-2psi)
The pitot mast is an easily duplicated aluminum fixture. Detailed photos upon
request.
Aircraft Spruce sells the red/green/ yellow curved arc gage stick-ons.
Lift Reserve Indicator. Some pilots will like them. Some will think they are
a waste of time.
Mike Welch
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar II stall speed... |
Thanks so much guys I really appreciate the input! t41pilot & wakataka; We are
flying in a parallel universe with the exact same experiences. My Firestar II
is 419lbs and it's pretty loaded with a Rotax 503DC, electric start, EIS, ASI
with dual pitot tubes, fuel gauge, Facet aux fuel pump, 3 blade Ivoprop. Being
only 148 lbs I really expected a 30mph stall speed. During my short flight with
my light weigh I had to turn the trim knob all the way for level flight. Looking
back, and not having flown for 11 years, even with my long experience flying
these types (Quicksilver Sprint II, Quicksilver Sport, Buccaneer SX amphibian,
Rans S-12, Avid Flyer Mark IV, Rans S-7) I should have taken the Firestar
to a longer airstrip. zeprep251(at)aol.com; Yes my first flight was a little
scary and a few hundred feet up, the desert airstrip I made on my property that
seemed plenty long on the ground @530ft well it sure got small looking down
from above but I had planned to practice some landings at a slightly longer
airstrip just south of my place where I had graded a runway for RC model airplanes,
it is about 600ft and more open. That stall drop & 2 bounces on my first
landing rattled me a bit and I drifted left off the runway but not much, and
it took almost all of the length to stop. 'Get right back on that horse' I took
off again and my 2nd landing was good but I still drifted left. I may have started
braking at too high a speed but the runway end was coming up fast. Years
ago I was very good at tracking my Buccaneer SX, Avid Flyer, and Rans S-7 tail
draggers but I remember I took some practice and I was a little surprised at
how rusty I was with the Firestar. On the 3rd landing I did pretty well, the
4th landing was perfect. I was exhausted from the last 6 weeks of getting all
this work done, and nervous before my 1st flight, so after the 4th landing as
I sat there with the engine running I figured I could probably get it into my
strip but SAFETY FIRST, don't push it especially when tired so I parked the nose
under !
a tree a
nd tied it down. All this week I have been working on extending my runway and I
am up from 530ft to 800ft now. Also I think I'll put on VG's from StolSpeed as
a poster here said they brought his Firestar II stall speed down 5mph, from
35mph down to 30mph and says it handles better at slower speeds and also feels
safer. Not that the Firestar is unsafe in any way but it would help with a shorter
strip and add some piece of mind. That abrupt stall drop still haunts me
but I know after a couple more flights and landings I'll be smiling ear to ear
:) For what it's worth, my yellow Firestar II was built in 1999 by Gary Aman
and I bought it last month from 'Captain' Ron Larson of Port Charlotte Florida.
A very good mechanic nicknamed 'Rotax Rick' did a rebuild on the 503 and has
greatly helped me with questions & info. The airplane is in good condition and
Ron only wanted $7,800 so I bought it. Rotax Rick, Travis & Brian at Kolb have
said I got a very good deal at that price. It did cost me $3,075 to have Bill
Wilmeroth at Deland Barnstormers transport it from Florida to Arizona and
he did a great job. So happy with my purchase. Thanks again for the great input
guys :)
--------
"Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life
just to arrive safely at death"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400280#400280
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
I just bought a pre-owned Firestar II. During inspection I was looking at the tail
wire bolt, a 'Jesus bolt' some call it. It took quite a bit of force to turn
the wing nut far enough to tighten the wires and see the hole for the safety
ring and insert it. I noticed the bolt threads were a bit rounded off and the
wing nut had marks from pliers over the years (I won't use pliers, fingers only).
I could wiggle the wing nut on the bolt enough to make me uncomfortable
figuring it might be worn from years of use. I ordered a new bolt & wing nut,
I went a grade above AN and went with stainless steel. With the new one I can
barely wiggle the wing nut on the threads now, what a nice piece of mind, SAFETY
FIRST, always! Please check yours for wear, if you can wiggle that wing nut
much please replace it...
--------
"Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life
just to arrive safely at death"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400285#400285
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar II stall speed... |
When I first fly any new to me plane, I take it up to about 1000' agl and stall
it. That way you know what your ASI is indicating when it stops flying. I've
never went by word of mouth or anything else. My original firestar stopped flying
at 27 indicated @330 lbs.MT weight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400308#400308
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