---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/02/13: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:31 AM - Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance (racerjerry) 2. 09:45 AM - Re: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance () 3. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance (Richard Girard) 4. 02:00 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance (Richard Girard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:13 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance From: "racerjerry" Oh; remember to put your ass in seat before weighing. I am afraid that you will need someone else to read the scales. With my lighter Firestar II, I purchased 3 flat top $10 bath scales from Walmart and had no trouble at all with weighing. Especially when using bathroom scales, you need to take care not to side load the scales or it will distort readings. What I did was pick up one main wheel and gently lay it back down on the scale. This keeps a toe error from causing a side load when rolling on to the scales (changing distance between main wheels). I am sure you can get one of your local stock car guys interested enough in your project to pay a visit and bring along their digital scales; the scales are very portable and easily set up. A cold case of beer can work wonders with racers; just make sure it comes out afterwards. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407923#407923 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:18 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance If I add me to the weight then I'm not calculating the empty weight and the CG be off, even though it's not within range now which is the problem. I haven't measured the arm for the seats so I don't know how much off it will be. But just looking at it it looks like the seats are pretty close to the datum point. I tried to using regular scales but they were very inaccurate , I lastly used two digital bathroom scales with a 2x6 but I could only get one of the scales to register. At first I rolled onto the scales but I wasn't confident in the reading that I started over and lowered the wheels onto the scales. But even then I was getting inconsistent readings. So for now the weight seems heavy with an aft out of range CG. As for adding the pilot to the basic equation, I'll crunch some numbers and see if that might make a difference. Thanks shine for all the input. Brad Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App so there may be some typos. -----Original Message----- From: racerjerry Sent: September 2, 2013, 8:32 Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance Oh; remember to put your ass in seat before weighing. I am afraid that you will need someone else to read the scales. With my lighter Firestar II, I purchased 3 flat top $10 bath scales from Walmart and had no trouble at all with weighing. Especially when using bathroom scales, you need to take care not to side load the scales or it will distort readings. What I did was pick up one main wheel and gently lay it back down on the scale. This keeps a toe error from causing a side load when rolling on to the scales (changing distance between main wheels). I am sure you can get one of your local stock car guys interested enough in your project to pay a visit and bring along their digital scales; the scales are very portable and easily set up. A cold case of beer can work wonders with racers; just make sure it comes out afterwards. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407923#407923



________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance From: Richard Girard Brad, Okay, I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you worried that the empty CG is too far aft? If that's the case you don't understand the process. You HAVE to know the arm to the pilot seat. With that info you can then calculate the minimum pilot weight, in order to get the CG into the aft end of it's range, and maximum pilot and passenger weight to keep the CG from running out the forward end of the range. Consider the Blanik L-13 sailplane. It's empty CG is at 78% of chord. Put a 150 lb pilot into the front seat and the loaded CG comes into the aft end of the range. Rick Girard On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:45 AM, wrote: > If I add me to the weight then I'm not calculating the empty weight and > the CG be off, even though it's not within range now which is the problem. > I haven't measured the arm for the seats so I don't know how much off it > will be. But just looking at it it looks like the seats are pretty close to > the datum point. > > I tried to using regular scales but they were very inaccurate , I lastly > used two digital bathroom scales with a 2x6 but I could only get one of the > scales to register. > At first I rolled onto the scales but I wasn't confident in the reading > that I started over and lowered the wheels onto the scales. But even then I > was getting inconsistent readings. > So for now the weight seems heavy with an aft out of range CG. As for > adding the pilot to the basic equation, I'll crunch some numbers and see if > that might make a difference. > > Thanks shine for all the input. > > Brad > > Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App so there may be some typos. > > -----Original Message----- > From: racerjerry > To: kolb-list > Sent: September 2, 2013, 8:32 > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance > > > Oh; remember to put your ass in seat before weighing. I am afraid that > you will need someone else to read the scales. With my lighter Firestar > II, I purchased 3 flat top $10 bath scales from Walmart and had no trouble > at all with weighing. > > Especially when using bathroom scales, you need to take care not to side > load the scales or it will distort readings. What I did was pick up one > main wheel and gently lay it back down on the scale. This keeps a toe > error from causing a side load when rolling on to the scales (changing > distance between main wheels). > > I am sure you can get one of your local stock car guys interested enough > in your project to pay a visit and bring along their digital scales; the > scales are very portable and easily set up. A cold case of beer can work > wonders with racers; just make sure it comes out afterwards. > > -------- > Jerry King > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407923#407923 > > >

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-- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:00:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance From: Richard Girard Dang it, hit return before I was ready. Attached is the spread sheet for an Xtra. Put 0 into pilot weight in the last section and you'll see the CG is too far aft. You must figure in the pilot weight at some minimum to get the CG into range. Rick On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > Brad, Okay, I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you worried > that the empty CG is too far aft? If that's the case you don't understand > the process. > You HAVE to know the arm to the pilot seat. With that info you can then > calculate the minimum pilot weight, in order to get the CG into the aft end > of it's range, and maximum pilot and passenger weight to keep the CG from > running out the forward end of the range. > Consider the Blanik L-13 sailplane. It's empty CG is at 78% of chord. Put > a 150 lb pilot into the front seat and the loaded CG comes into the aft end > of the range. > > Rick Girard > > > On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:45 AM, wrote: > >> If I add me to the weight then I'm not calculating the empty weight and >> the CG be off, even though it's not within range now which is the problem. >> I haven't measured the arm for the seats so I don't know how much off it >> will be. But just looking at it it looks like the seats are pretty close to >> the datum point. >> >> I tried to using regular scales but they were very inaccurate , I lastly >> used two digital bathroom scales with a 2x6 but I could only get one of the >> scales to register. >> At first I rolled onto the scales but I wasn't confident in the reading >> that I started over and lowered the wheels onto the scales. But even then I >> was getting inconsistent readings. >> So for now the weight seems heavy with an aft out of range CG. As for >> adding the pilot to the basic equation, I'll crunch some numbers and see if >> that might make a difference. >> >> Thanks shine for all the input. >> >> Brad >> >> Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App so there may be some typos. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: racerjerry >> To: kolb-list >> Sent: September 2, 2013, 8:32 >> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance >> >> >> Oh; remember to put your ass in seat before weighing. I am afraid that >> you will need someone else to read the scales. With my lighter Firestar >> II, I purchased 3 flat top $10 bath scales from Walmart and had no trouble >> at all with weighing. >> >> Especially when using bathroom scales, you need to take care not to side >> load the scales or it will distort readings. What I did was pick up one >> main wheel and gently lay it back down on the scale. This keeps a toe >> error from causing a side load when rolling on to the scales (changing >> distance between main wheels). >> >> I am sure you can get one of your local stock car guys interested enough >> in your project to pay a visit and bring along their digital scales; the >> scales are very portable and easily set up. A cold case of beer can work >> wonders with racers; just make sure it comes out afterwards. >> >> -------- >> Jerry King >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407923#407923 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>

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> > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.