---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/08/13: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance (Brad Nation) 2. 07:18 PM - Kolb-List Digest: (Bob Green) 3. 07:23 PM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: (Mike Welch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance From: Brad Nation I guess I didn't understand the process. I crunched some numbers using my we ight as the pilot weight and indeed it brought the CG within range. As I did n't have the correct ARM I'll be heading out to the hanger to get the real m easurements and go from there. Thanks for the visual aid spread sheet. I measured the bottom of the wing including the flap to be 66", w/o flap, 50 ". I looked at the builder's notes and his wing measurements are the same. L ooking back at my post yes I did mix up the inches and %. (Probably didn't h elp doing the typing on my iPhone. ) My Xtra has a Rotax 912 80 hp, BRS VLS ( it weights 18.6 lbs), tundra tires, basic instruments, nothing out of the ordinary, as far as I can tell from m y limited experience with Xtras, so I agree that the weight is high. The que stion is why, we're the scales crappy, was I maxing out the scales, did I we igh it incorrectly, or does it really weigh that much. When I weighed it I raised the tail so that the wing trailing edge was 7.5 i nches lower than he leading edge. I lowered the wheels onto the scales vs. r olling onto them. I repeated the process for each wheel at least 4 times unt il I got a couple consistent weights on each wheel. It seems that I need to go and remeasure and get an accurate higher capacity set of scales. Sent from my iPad Brad On Sep 2, 2013, at 15:00, Richard Girard wrote: > Dang it, hit return before I was ready. Attached is the spread sheet for a n Xtra. Put 0 into pilot weight in the last section and you'll see the CG is too far aft. You must figure in the pilot weight at some minimum to get the CG into range. > > Rick > > > On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Richard Girard wrote : >> Brad, Okay, I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you worried t hat the empty CG is too far aft? If that's the case you don't understand the process. >> You HAVE to know the arm to the pilot seat. With that info you can then c alculate the minimum pilot weight, in order to get the CG into the aft end o f it's range, and maximum pilot and passenger weight to keep the CG from run ning out the forward end of the range. >> Consider the Blanik L-13 sailplane. It's empty CG is at 78% of chord. Put a 150 lb pilot into the front seat and the loaded CG comes into the aft end of the range. >> >> Rick Girard >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:45 AM, wrote: >>> If I add me to the weight then I'm not calculating the empty weight and t he CG be off, even though it's not within range now which is the problem. I h aven't measured the arm for the seats so I don't know how much off it will b e. But just looking at it it looks like the seats are pretty close to the da tum point. >>> >>> I tried to using regular scales but they were very inaccurate , I lastl y used two digital bathroom scales with a 2x6 but I could only get one of th e scales to register. >>> At first I rolled onto the scales but I wasn't confident in the reading t hat I started over and lowered the wheels onto the scales. But even then I w as getting inconsistent readings. >>> So for now the weight seems heavy with an aft out of range CG. As for a dding the pilot to the basic equation, I'll crunch some numbers and see if t hat might make a difference. >>> >>> Thanks shine for all the input. >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App so there may be some typos. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: racerjerry >>> To: kolb-list >>> Sent: September 2, 2013, 8:32 >>> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance >>> >>> >>> Oh; remember to put your ass in seat before weighing. I am afraid that y ou will need someone else to read the scales. With my lighter Firestar II, I purchased 3 flat top $10 bath scales from Walmart and had no trouble at all with weighing. >>> >>> Especially when using bathroom scales, you need to take care not to side load the scales or it will distort readings. What I did was pick up one ma in wheel and gently lay it back down on the scale. This keeps a toe error f rom causing a side load when rolling on to the scales (changing distance bet ween main wheels). >>> >>> I am sure you can get one of your local stock car guys interested enough in your project to pay a visit and bring along their digital scales; the sc ales are very portable and easily set up. A cold case of beer can work wond ers with racers; just make sure it comes out afterwards. >>> >>> -------- >>> Jerry King >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407923#407923 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 

>>> 
>>> ==========
>>> om/Navigator?Kolb-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>>> ==========
>>> s.com" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matr
onics.com
>>> ==========
>>> le, List Admin.
>>> om/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>> 
>>>
>> >> >> >> -- >> Zulu Delta >> Mk IIIC >> Thanks, Homer GBYM >> >> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhapp y. >> - Groucho Marx > > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy .. > - Groucho Marx > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:36 PM PST US From: Bob Green Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb-List Digest: Hello Kolbers: Can anyone tell me the required inside width and length of a trailer in which to haul a MKIIIX with the wings attached and in the folded position? Thank you all for any and all information and suggestions. Bob MKIIIX with GPAS VW N830PB ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb-List Digest: From: Mike Welch Bob, You're going to need at least 24' long and probably every inch of 7' 6" wide, inside measurements. Mike On Sep 8, 2013, at 9:20 PM, "Bob Green" wrote: > > Hello Kolbers: > Can anyone tell me the required inside width and length of a trailer in which to haul a MKIIIX with the wings attached and in the folded position? > Thank you all for any and all information and suggestions. > Bob > MKIIIX with GPAS VW > N830PB > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.