---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/10/13: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:50 AM - Re: Re: Couple question (Dennis Rowe) 2. 07:05 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/09/13 (Bob Green) 3. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/09/13 (Mike Welch) 4. 08:47 AM - Re: Couple question (Beauford) 5. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance (Brad Nation) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:50:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Couple question From: Dennis Rowe I use dish soap in water and a car cleaning sponge or mitten. Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA On Sep 9, 2013, at 9:45 PM, "funnyb0nz" wrote: > > Hey guys, I am now the new owner of a KXP, it did have 7 ribs, that is one thing the old owner told me. He actually told me about this forum. I am sure I will have many questions. So if anyone has pics of a full enclosure that I could see to get some ideas, that would be greatly appreciated. Want to have it ready for winter flying, but also like to take the doors off for spring/summer flying. > What is best to use to clean the material of the kxp, it needs a nice bath and would like to detail it up so looks really nice before I get trained to fly it. > > > Thanks! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408316#408316 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:42 AM PST US From: Bob Green Subject: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/09/13 Thanks for the info on the size for a trailer to haul a MKIIIX. I appreciate all the help. Bob N830PB ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 09/09/13 From: Mike Welch You're very welcome, Bob. Mike Welch do not archive On Sep 10, 2013, at 9:05 AM, Bob Green wrote: > > > Thanks for the info on the size for a trailer to haul a MKIIIX. I appreciate all the help. > Bob > N830PB > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:44 AM PST US From: "Beauford " Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Couple question Brother Dan: Have had good luck (no evident aluminum or 4130 corrosion) with a little common dishwashing detergent highly diluted in water. FWIW, I would definitely stay away from any alkaline-based cleaners such as Simple Green or TSP. Many are reactive with aluminum and if the cleaning solution gets trapped against tubing, such as under fabric or inside the wing, they can attack the protective aluminum oxide surface and initiate corrosion. Worth about what ye paid fer it... Enjoy your new Kolb.... beauford FF-076 Brandon, FL ---------------------------------------------------------- On Sep 9, 2013, at 9:45 PM, "funnyb0nz" wrote: " Hey guys, I am now the new owner of a KXP> What is best to use to clean the material of the kxp, it needs a nice bath and would like to detail it up so looks really nice before I get trained to fly it. Thanks! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance From: Brad Nation Rick, That weight of 660 lb seems about what it should be, I'm thinking/hoping th at the 751 lb that it weighted out on the last measuring is incorrect as I w as getting such a large range of weights that I think the scales I was using were not accurate. At 750 lb doesn't leave me much caring capacity for pass engers, fuel, or baggage. So I'm trying to acquire a set of military rolling stock scales or some certified scales and re-weigh it. Im not ignoring all the help from the the Kolb forum, I'm just in a holding p attern until I get some better scales and get a more accurate weight, then I 'll update the forum. Thanks for all the input from everyone who weighed in with help. (pun intend ed) Sent from my iPad Brad On Sep 9, 2013, at 10:32, Richard Girard wrote: > Brad, When I was working on 125KP Travis told me that the average "X" came in at an empty weight of 650 lb. As I recall 125KP was 655 lb. when I put i t on a weight reduction plan and I was able to get it down to 615. That was a 582 powered airplane. Add 35 to 40 lb. for the 912 and you're back up in th e 660 lb weight range. > The wing chord includes the flaps, i.e. it is 66". > > Rick > > > On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 7:37 PM, Brad Nation wrote: >> I guess I didn't understand the process. I crunched some numbers using my weight as the pilot weight and indeed it brought the CG within range. As I d idn't have the correct ARM I'll be heading out to the hanger to get the real measurements and go from there. >> >> Thanks for the visual aid spread sheet. >> >> I measured the bottom of the wing including the flap to be 66", w/o flap, 50". I looked at the builder's notes and his wing measurements are the same . Looking back at my post yes I did mix up the inches and %. (Probably didn' t help doing the typing on my iPhone. ) >> My Xtra has a Rotax 912 80 hp, BRS VLS ( it weights 18.6 lbs), tundra tir es, basic instruments, nothing out of the ordinary, as far as I can tell fro m my limited experience with Xtras, so I agree that the weight is high. The q uestion is why, we're the scales crappy, was I maxing out the scales, did I w eigh it incorrectly, or does it really weigh that much. >> When I weighed it I raised the tail so that the wing trailing edge was 7. 5 inches lower than he leading edge. I lowered the wheels onto the scales vs . rolling onto them. I repeated the process for each wheel at least 4 times u ntil I got a couple consistent weights on each wheel. >> >> It seems that I need to go and remeasure and get an accurate higher capac ity set of scales. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> Brad >> >> On Sep 2, 2013, at 15:00, Richard Girard wrote: >> >>> Dang it, hit return before I was ready. Attached is the spread sheet for an Xtra. Put 0 into pilot weight in the last section and you'll see the CG i s too far aft. You must figure in the pilot weight at some minimum to get th e CG into range. >>> >>> Rick >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Richard Girard wro te: >>>> Brad, Okay, I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you worried that the empty CG is too far aft? If that's the case you don't understand t he process. >>>> You HAVE to know the arm to the pilot seat. With that info you can then calculate the minimum pilot weight, in order to get the CG into the aft end of it's range, and maximum pilot and passenger weight to keep the CG from r unning out the forward end of the range. >>>> Consider the Blanik L-13 sailplane. It's empty CG is at 78% of chord. P ut a 150 lb pilot into the front seat and the loaded CG comes into the aft e nd of the range. >>>> >>>> Rick Girard >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:45 AM, wrote: >>>>> If I add me to the weight then I'm not calculating the empty weight an d the CG be off, even though it's not within range now which is the problem. I haven't measured the arm for the seats so I don't know how much off it wi ll be. But just looking at it it looks like the seats are pretty close to th e datum point. >>>>> >>>>> I tried to using regular scales but they were very inaccurate , I las tly used two digital bathroom scales with a 2x6 but I could only get one of t he scales to register. >>>>> At first I rolled onto the scales but I wasn't confident in the readin g that I started over and lowered the wheels onto the scales. But even then I was getting inconsistent readings. >>>>> So for now the weight seems heavy with an aft out of range CG. As for adding the pilot to the basic equation, I'll crunch some numbers and see if that might make a difference. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks shine for all the input. >>>>> >>>>> Brad >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App so there may be some typos. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: racerjerry >>>>> To: kolb-list >>>>> Sent: September 2, 2013, 8:32 >>>>> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Oh; remember to put your ass in seat before weighing. I am afraid tha t you will need someone else to read the scales. With my lighter Firestar I I, I purchased 3 flat top $10 bath scales from Walmart and had no trouble at all with weighing. >>>>> >>>>> Especially when using bathroom scales, you need to take care not to si de load the scales or it will distort readings. What I did was pick up one m ain wheel and gently lay it back down on the scale. This keeps a toe error f rom causing a side load when rolling on to the scales (changing distance bet ween main wheels). >>>>> >>>>> I am sure you can get one of your local stock car guys interested enou gh in your project to pay a visit and bring along their digital scales; the s cales are very portable and easily set up. A cold case of beer can work won ders with racers; just make sure it comes out afterwards. >>>>> >>>>> -------- >>>>> Jerry King >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>> >>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407923#407923 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 


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