Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:34 AM - Classifieds for the Experimental Aviation Community (EdKranz)
2. 11:36 AM - Classifieds for the Experimental Aviation Community (EdKranz)
3. 03:11 PM - My latest video (tkben002)
4. 05:44 PM - Re: My latest video (Rick Lewis)
5. 06:26 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance (Richard Girard)
6. 07:40 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance (Rick Neilsen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Classifieds for the Experimental Aviation Community |
Hello, Kolb builders and flyers!
Over the past few years I've noticed that many homebuilders tend to stick to their
own online groups. Also, when people are looking to buy or sell parts (or
planes), that experience is also quite fragmented. There will be different postings
on individual email lists, dedicated builder forums, and the big general
aviation classifieds sites... but often these listings would be of interest to
everyone regardless of which type of plane they are building or flying.
To try to help people reach across those divisions, I am launching a new website:
www.SkySwapper.com
It's an online classifieds site purely dedicated to the experimental aviation community.
Of course, since it's brand new, it's pretty empty... but I'm hoping you all can
help me with that. Posting ads with one photo will always be free, but sign
up using the promo code: matronics
and you'll get the ability to post ads with 4 up to pictures for free as thanks
for being one of the early adopters, along with some other perks.
(Or simply register with this link:)
http://www.skyswapper.com/register.php?registration_code=matronics
Since I'm a -10 builder that frequents the Matronics forums, I decided that this
was the best community to begin the initial launch with. The site is still in
a beta release, so comments, suggestions, and complaints are all very important
to me. If you see anything that is broken, or have ideas about how to make
the site function better, please let me know thru the Contact Us page on the
site.
Thanks for your time and happy building and flying!
Ed Kranz
RV10 Builder
www.SkySwapper.com
www.EdandColleen.com (my build site)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408439#408439
Message 2
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| Subject: | Classifieds for the Experimental Aviation Community |
Hello, Kolb builders and flyers!
Over the past few years I've noticed that many homebuilders tend to stick to their
own online groups. Also, when people are looking to buy or sell parts (or
planes), that experience is also quite fragmented. There will be different postings
on individual email lists, dedicated builder forums, and the big general
aviation classifieds sites... but often these listings would be of interest to
everyone regardless of which type of plane they are building or flying.
To try to help people reach across those divisions, I am launching a new website:
www.SkySwapper.com
It's an online classifieds site purely dedicated to the experimental aviation community.
Of course, since it's brand new, it's pretty empty... but I'm hoping you all can
help me with that. Posting ads with one photo will always be free, but sign
up using the promo code: matronics
and you'll get the ability to post ads with 4 up to pictures for free as thanks
for being one of the early adopters, along with some other perks.
(Or simply register with this link:)
http://www.skyswapper.com/register.php?registration_code=matronics
Since I'm a -10 builder that frequents the Matronics forums, I decided that this
was the best community to begin the initial launch with. The site is still in
a beta release, so comments, suggestions, and complaints are all very important
to me. If you see anything that is broken, or have ideas about how to make
the site function better, please let me know thru the Contact Us page on the
site.
Thanks for your time and happy building and flying!
Ed Kranz
RV10 Builder
www.SkySwapper.com
www.EdandColleen.com (my build site)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408440#408440
Message 3
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Had a real good flight over the weekend playing around down low over the river
on the way to a pancake breakfast. I took some video so I thought I would share
with the group. (nothing fancy as my video editing skills are severely lacking).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2leJ5ZiWz8A
Travis Bennett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408460#408460
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: My latest video |
That was so awesome, I can't wait to finish my Kolb and fly it. Thank you for
the video.....
--------
Rick Lewis
(VW Watercooled Engine)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408469#408469
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance |
Brad, Do you have a local EAA Chapter? Ask around at the airport, someone
has to have a set of scales. I bought a set of go kart racing scales that
can handle up to 500 lb. each.
Rick
On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 8:24 PM, Brad Nation <nationcap@comcast.net> wrote:
> Rick,
> That weight of 660 lb seems about what it should be, I'm thinking/hoping
> that the 751 lb that it weighted out on the last measuring is incorrect as
> I was getting such a large range of weights that I think the scales I was
> using were not accurate. At 750 lb doesn't leave me much caring capacity
> for passengers, fuel, or baggage. So I'm trying to acquire a set of
> military rolling stock scales or some certified scales and re-weigh it.
>
> Im not ignoring all the help from the the Kolb forum, I'm just in a
> holding pattern until I get some better scales and get a more accurate
> weight, then I'll update the forum.
>
> Thanks for all the input from everyone who weighed in with help. (pun
> intended)
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> Brad
>
> On Sep 9, 2013, at 10:32, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Brad, When I was working on 125KP Travis told me that the average "X" came
> in at an empty weight of 650 lb. As I recall 125KP was 655 lb. when I put
> it on a weight reduction plan and I was able to get it down to 615. That
> was a 582 powered airplane. Add 35 to 40 lb. for the 912 and you're back up
> in the 660 lb weight range.
> The wing chord includes the flaps, i.e. it is 66".
>
> Rick
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 7:37 PM, Brad Nation <nationcap@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I guess I didn't understand the process. I crunched some numbers using my
>> weight as the pilot weight and indeed it brought the CG within range. As I
>> didn't have the correct ARM I'll be heading out to the hanger to get the
>> real measurements and go from there.
>>
>> Thanks for the visual aid spread sheet.
>>
>> I measured the bottom of the wing including the flap to be 66", w/o flap,
>> 50". I looked at the builder's notes and his wing measurements are the
>> same. Looking back at my post yes I did mix up the inches and %. (Probably
>> didn't help doing the typing on my iPhone. )
>> My Xtra has a Rotax 912 80 hp, BRS VLS ( it weights 18.6 lbs), tundra
>> tires, basic instruments, nothing out of the ordinary, as far as I can tell
>> from my limited experience with Xtras, so I agree that the weight is high.
>> The question is why, we're the scales crappy, was I maxing out the scales,
>> did I weigh it incorrectly, or does it really weigh that much.
>> When I weighed it I raised the tail so that the wing trailing edge was
>> 7.5 inches lower than he leading edge. I lowered the wheels onto the scales
>> vs. rolling onto them. I repeated the process for each wheel at least 4
>> times until I got a couple consistent weights on each wheel.
>>
>> It seems that I need to go and remeasure and get an accurate higher
>> capacity set of scales.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2013, at 15:00, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dang it, hit return before I was ready. Attached is the spread sheet for
>> an Xtra. Put 0 into pilot weight in the last section and you'll see the CG
>> is too far aft. You must figure in the pilot weight at some minimum to get
>> the CG into range.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Brad, Okay, I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you worried
>>> that the empty CG is too far aft? If that's the case you don't understand
>>> the process.
>>> You HAVE to know the arm to the pilot seat. With that info you can then
>>> calculate the minimum pilot weight, in order to get the CG into the aft end
>>> of it's range, and maximum pilot and passenger weight to keep the CG from
>>> running out the forward end of the range.
>>> Consider the Blanik L-13 sailplane. It's empty CG is at 78% of chord.
>>> Put a 150 lb pilot into the front seat and the loaded CG comes into the aft
>>> end of the range.
>>>
>>> Rick Girard
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:45 AM, <nationcap@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I add me to the weight then I'm not calculating the empty weight and
>>>> the CG be off, even though it's not within range now which is the problem.
>>>> I haven't measured the arm for the seats so I don't know how much off it
>>>> will be. But just looking at it it looks like the seats are pretty close to
>>>> the datum point.
>>>>
>>>> I tried to using regular scales but they were very inaccurate , I
>>>> lastly used two digital bathroom scales with a 2x6 but I could only get one
>>>> of the scales to register.
>>>> At first I rolled onto the scales but I wasn't confident in the reading
>>>> that I started over and lowered the wheels onto the scales. But even then
I
>>>> was getting inconsistent readings.
>>>> So for now the weight seems heavy with an aft out of range CG. As for
>>>> adding the pilot to the basic equation, I'll crunch some numbers and see if
>>>> that might make a difference.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks shine for all the input.
>>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App so there may be some typos.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: racerjerry
>>>> To: kolb-list
>>>> Sent: September 2, 2013, 8:32
>>>> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh; remember to put your ass in seat before weighing. I am afraid that
>>>> you will need someone else to read the scales. With my lighter Firestar
>>>> II, I purchased 3 flat top $10 bath scales from Walmart and had no trouble
>>>> at all with weighing.
>>>>
>>>> Especially when using bathroom scales, you need to take care not to
>>>> side load the scales or it will distort readings. What I did was pick up
>>>> one main wheel and gently lay it back down on the scale. This keeps a toe
>>>> error from causing a side load when rolling on to the scales (changing
>>>> distance between main wheels).
>>>>
>>>> I am sure you can get one of your local stock car guys interested
>>>> enough in your project to pay a visit and bring along their digital scales;
>>>> the scales are very portable and easily set up. A cold case of beer can
>>>> work wonders with racers; just make sure it comes out afterwards.
>>>>
>>>> --------
>>>> Jerry King
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407923#407923
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>>>>
>>>> ==========
>>>> om/Navigator?Kolb-List" target="_blank">
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List</a>
>>>> ==========
>>>> s.com" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com">
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com</a>
>>>> ==========
>>>> le, List Admin.
>>>> om/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>> </b></font></pre>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zulu Delta
>>> Mk IIIC
>>> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>>>
>>> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
>>> unhappy.
>>> - Groucho Marx
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Zulu Delta
>> Mk IIIC
>> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>>
>> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
>> unhappy.
>> - Groucho Marx
>>
>> <Mark IIIX W and B.xlsx>
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-Listtp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
> *
>
> ==================================
> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ===================================cs.com
> ===================================matronics.com/contribution
> ==================================
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance |
Hey guys try this. I used three cheep bathroom scales to weigh my plane but
first I calibrated them. I used a high quality balance beam scale to weigh
me. It seems like I even put so weight on the scale to increase my weight a
bit. Then I got on two of the scales that I would use as the main gear
scales and made sure they showed the same weight. You need to step on and
off the scales a few times to make sure that it will return to the
calibrated weight each time. For the tail wheel I used a known weight
closer to the estimated tail weight. With the plane in the hanger with the
doors closed I put the plane on the scales and lifted the tail on boxes to
get it at the correct height for the required weighing position and slid
the tail wheel scale in place. Cheep and fairly accurate. I used the
instructions that came with the kit for balance of the pilot and passenger
weight to figure minimum and maximum weight to stay in the CG limits.
My empty weight is now 598LBS. I was real careful to limit washers, no more
than three threads showing on any bolt, anything not necessary got cut off
and drilling hundreds of holes in non structural parts.
Rick Neilsen
1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brad, Do you have a local EAA Chapter? Ask around at the airport, someone
> has to have a set of scales. I bought a set of go kart racing scales that
> can handle up to 500 lb. each.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 8:24 PM, Brad Nation <nationcap@comcast.net>wrote:
>
>> Rick,
>> That weight of 660 lb seems about what it should be, I'm thinking/hoping
>> that the 751 lb that it weighted out on the last measuring is incorrect as
>> I was getting such a large range of weights that I think the scales I was
>> using were not accurate. At 750 lb doesn't leave me much caring capacity
>> for passengers, fuel, or baggage. So I'm trying to acquire a set of
>> military rolling stock scales or some certified scales and re-weigh it.
>>
>> Im not ignoring all the help from the the Kolb forum, I'm just in a
>> holding pattern until I get some better scales and get a more accurate
>> weight, then I'll update the forum.
>>
>> Thanks for all the input from everyone who weighed in with help. (pun
>> intended)
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2013, at 10:32, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Brad, When I was working on 125KP Travis told me that the average "X"
>> came in at an empty weight of 650 lb. As I recall 125KP was 655 lb. when I
>> put it on a weight reduction plan and I was able to get it down to 615.
>> That was a 582 powered airplane. Add 35 to 40 lb. for the 912 and you're
>> back up in the 660 lb weight range.
>> The wing chord includes the flaps, i.e. it is 66".
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 7:37 PM, Brad Nation <nationcap@comcast.net>wrote:
>>
>>> I guess I didn't understand the process. I crunched some numbers using
>>> my weight as the pilot weight and indeed it brought the CG within range. As
>>> I didn't have the correct ARM I'll be heading out to the hanger to get the
>>> real measurements and go from there.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the visual aid spread sheet.
>>>
>>> I measured the bottom of the wing including the flap to be 66", w/o
>>> flap, 50". I looked at the builder's notes and his wing measurements are
>>> the same. Looking back at my post yes I did mix up the inches and %.
>>> (Probably didn't help doing the typing on my iPhone. )
>>> My Xtra has a Rotax 912 80 hp, BRS VLS ( it weights 18.6 lbs), tundra
>>> tires, basic instruments, nothing out of the ordinary, as far as I can tell
>>> from my limited experience with Xtras, so I agree that the weight is high.
>>> The question is why, we're the scales crappy, was I maxing out the scales,
>>> did I weigh it incorrectly, or does it really weigh that much.
>>> When I weighed it I raised the tail so that the wing trailing edge was
>>> 7.5 inches lower than he leading edge. I lowered the wheels onto the scales
>>> vs. rolling onto them. I repeated the process for each wheel at least 4
>>> times until I got a couple consistent weights on each wheel.
>>>
>>> It seems that I need to go and remeasure and get an accurate higher
>>> capacity set of scales.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> On Sep 2, 2013, at 15:00, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dang it, hit return before I was ready. Attached is the spread sheet for
>>> an Xtra. Put 0 into pilot weight in the last section and you'll see the CG
>>> is too far aft. You must figure in the pilot weight at some minimum to get
>>> the CG into range.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brad, Okay, I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you worried
>>>> that the empty CG is too far aft? If that's the case you don't understand
>>>> the process.
>>>> You HAVE to know the arm to the pilot seat. With that info you can then
>>>> calculate the minimum pilot weight, in order to get the CG into the aft end
>>>> of it's range, and maximum pilot and passenger weight to keep the CG from
>>>> running out the forward end of the range.
>>>> Consider the Blanik L-13 sailplane. It's empty CG is at 78% of chord.
>>>> Put a 150 lb pilot into the front seat and the loaded CG comes into the aft
>>>> end of the range.
>>>>
>>>> Rick Girard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:45 AM, <nationcap@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If I add me to the weight then I'm not calculating the empty weight
>>>>> and the CG be off, even though it's not within range now which is the
>>>>> problem. I haven't measured the arm for the seats so I don't know how much
>>>>> off it will be. But just looking at it it looks like the seats are pretty
>>>>> close to the datum point.
>>>>>
>>>>> I tried to using regular scales but they were very inaccurate , I
>>>>> lastly used two digital bathroom scales with a 2x6 but I could only get one
>>>>> of the scales to register.
>>>>> At first I rolled onto the scales but I wasn't confident in the
>>>>> reading that I started over and lowered the wheels onto the scales. But
>>>>> even then I was getting inconsistent readings.
>>>>> So for now the weight seems heavy with an aft out of range CG. As for
>>>>> adding the pilot to the basic equation, I'll crunch some numbers and see
if
>>>>> that might make a difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks shine for all the input.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brad
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App so there may be some typos.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: racerjerry
>>>>> To: kolb-list
>>>>> Sent: September 2, 2013, 8:32
>>>>> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Xtra weight. & balance
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh; remember to put your ass in seat before weighing. I am afraid
>>>>> that you will need someone else to read the scales. With my lighter
>>>>> Firestar II, I purchased 3 flat top $10 bath scales from Walmart and had
no
>>>>> trouble at all with weighing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Especially when using bathroom scales, you need to take care not to
>>>>> side load the scales or it will distort readings. What I did was pick up
>>>>> one main wheel and gently lay it back down on the scale. This keeps a toe
>>>>> error from causing a side load when rolling on to the scales (changing
>>>>> distance between main wheels).
>>>>>
>>>>> I am sure you can get one of your local stock car guys interested
>>>>> enough in your project to pay a visit and bring along their digital scales;
>>>>> the scales are very portable and easily set up. A cold case of beer can
>>>>> work wonders with racers; just make sure it comes out afterwards.
>>>>>
>>>>> --------
>>>>> Jerry King
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407923#407923
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>>>>>
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> om/Navigator?Kolb-List" target="_blank">
>>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">
>>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List</a>
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> s.com" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com">
>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com</a>
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> le, List Admin.
>>>>> om/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>> ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
>>>>> ==========
>>>>>
>>>>> </b></font></pre>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Zulu Delta
>>>> Mk IIIC
>>>> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>>>>
>>>> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
>>>> unhappy.
>>>> - Groucho Marx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zulu Delta
>>> Mk IIIC
>>> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>>>
>>> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
>>> unhappy.
>>> - Groucho Marx
>>>
>>> <Mark IIIX W and B.xlsx>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-Listtp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Zulu Delta
>> Mk IIIC
>> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>>
>> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
>> unhappy.
>> - Groucho Marx
>>
>> *
>>
>> =========
>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> ==========cs.com
>> ==========matronics.com/contribution
>> =========
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
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