---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/06/13: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:11 AM - Re: Mark 3 performance up high (james.vanlaak@gmail.com) 2. 12:31 PM - Firefly at High Altitude (Paul Littleton) 3. 05:03 PM - Re: Firefly at High Altitude (Robert Gillisse) 4. 06:13 PM - Re: Firefly at High Altitude (Beauford) 5. 09:39 PM - Re: Firefly at High Altitude (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark 3 performance up high From: james.vanlaak@gmail.com Thanks Boyd. On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 9:07 PM, b young wrote: > several years back I took off from an airport at 6966 ft, going > slightly uphill, and near max wt. and took around 2000 ft on a hot day > density altitude somewhere near 8500 to 9000 ft. been long enough I don =92t > recall exactly. mk iii 912 ul > > also at monument valley,,, when only the upper end was paved.... seems > like it was 700 ft of pavement.... and depending on temperature,, it > took most of the pavement and a bit more if you had a passenger. it is > near 5200 msl. and take off is slightly down hill. density altitude > 7000 ft or there about... give or take 1000 ft. > > boyd young > do not archive > > *From:* james.vanlaak@gmail.com > *Sent:* Saturday, October 05, 2013 11:28 AM > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Kolb-List: Mark 3 performance up high > > I have a potential buyer for my Mark 3X who lives out in the mountains > (6000' elevation). Anyone have takeoff and landing distances under such > circumstances? > > Jim > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:27 PM PST US From: Paul Littleton Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly at High Altitude Hello, I am new to the list. I am considering a legal 103 ultralight Firefly with a 40hp engine. The bad news is that I live at 7171 ft ASL. Other near by fields are still above 6000 ft ASL. Will a 40hp Firefly be able to fly at these kinds of altitudes. Thank you for any information. Best Regards, Paul ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:56 PM PST US From: Robert Gillisse Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly at High Altitude Kolb Firestar II @ 11,000' w/ Rotax 503...no performance problems.=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0AFrom: Paul Littleton =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, October 6, 2013 3:31 PM=0A Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly at High Altitude=0A=0A=0A--> Kolb-List message posted by: Paul Littleton =0A=0AHello,=0A=0AI am new to th e list.- I am considering a legal 103 ultralight Firefly with a 40hp engi ne.- The bad news is that I live at 7171 ft ASL.- Other near by fields are still above 6000 ft ASL.- Will a 40hp Firefly be able to fly at these kinds of altitudes.=0A=0AThank you for any information.=0A=0ABest Regards, =============== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:15 PM PST US From: "Beauford " Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firefly at High Altitude Brother Littleton: Welcome to the List, sir. I do not presume to offer myself as an expert in this matter, never having operated a Firefly at the altitudes you mention, rather having only run one down at sea level for a while. I do have some limited experience with higher altitude operations, however. I flew my 'ol Stinson off Meadowlake airport at Colorado Springs for three years... That field is at about 6,800 feet. Here are a few things I learned, some of which may help with your question: - In the summertime it was common to see density altitudes on the airport at or near the service ceilings of many small airplanes and the scattered small remains of past kinetic events in the weeds off the higher north end of the asphalt strip bore testament to that fact.. About four months of the year, my 165 hp bird would become a 120 hp clunker which I never dared fuel at more than half capacity and which became incapable of carrying an average adult in the back seat. I don't know what the "service ceiling" of a FireFly might be, but I once took a fit and coaxed mine to eight K feet. It clearly wasn't a happy participant in that particular experiment once it "climbed" past 7K with my flabby butt perched in the front. I am certain the longer wing of a Firestar would have performed much better. - Rules of thumb can be dangerous, but here are a couple anyway: Subtract 3.5 to 4 percent from the rated horsepower of the engine for every thousand feet above S.L. Add about 12 percent to the takeoff roll for every thousand feet of altitude, then add 12 percent more to the above numbers for every 15 degrees F above the standard 59F SL value for your altitude (which is 38F). Do the math. Weigh yourself. You didn't mention your weight, but that would likely be a significant factor, one way or another on a 6K ft. elev. airfield with a 31 hp. machine. My Fly never actually groans out loud when it sees my 208 lbs coming, but I know what the little buggar is thinking, even here at 20 feet MSL. I would suppose that if you are near my weight, you would need a pretty good airfield and some very well balanced wheels and tires. If you are heavier than me, I suspect you may well need Rand McNally and some reliable street directions. Hope this may help a little. I don't know your level of aviation experience and I trust my free advice hasn't insulted you should you prove to be a retired Delta 747 captain who just lost his medical and retired to Colorado. Worth what ye paid fer it... Good luck. beauford FF-076, N173BW Brandon, FL -----Original Message----- Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly at High Altitude . I am considering a legal 103 ultralight Firefly with a 40hp engine. The bad news is that I live at 7171 ft ASL. Other near by fields are still above 6000 ft ASL. Will a 40hp Firefly be able to fly at these kinds of altitudes. Thank you for any information. Best Regards, Paul ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:43 PM PST US From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly at High Altitude Hi Brother Beauford, I was having a poorly executed day today. Things were just not going very well at all and I was feeling rather down in the dumps. That is, until I opened your response to Brother Littleton with your advice on high altitude flying in the FireFly. Immediately my attitude improved and by the end of your response I was LOL. Thanks for keeping humor in the list. Bill Varnes Kolb FireStar Audubon, NJ - elevation 120' msl Do not archive In a message dated 10/6/2013 9:13:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, beauford173@tampabay.rr.com writes: Brother Littleton: Welcome to the List, sir. I do not presume to offer myself as an expert in this matter, never having operated a Firefly at the altitudes you mention, rather having only run one down at sea level for a while. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.