Kolb-List Digest Archive

Tue 12/10/13


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:23 AM - 582-99 water pump housing (Dennis Rowe)
     2. 03:05 AM - propeller to boom tube clearance? (tombaisley)
     3. 06:19 AM - Re: propeller to boom tube clearance? (Dennis Rowe)
     4. 06:34 AM - Re: propeller to boom tube clearance? (TheWanderingWench)
     5. 06:50 AM - Re: 582-99 water pump housing (John Hauck)
     6. 07:03 AM - Re: propeller to boom tube clearance? (John Hauck)
     7. 07:17 AM - Re: propeller to boom tube clearance? (John Hauck)
     8. 08:23 AM - Re: propeller to boom tube clearance? (Richard Girard)
     9. 09:00 AM - Re: 582-99 water pump housing (Dennis Rowe)
    10. 09:26 AM - Re: 582-99 water pump housing (Dennis Rowe)
    11. 02:54 PM - Re: How much fabric to cover a Mark IIIc? (gliderx5@comcast.net)
    12. 04:07 PM - Re: 582-99 water pump housing (Richard Girard)
    13. 08:22 PM - Re: 582-99 water pump housing (Dennis Rowe)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:23:39 AM PST US
    Subject: 582-99 water pump housing
    From: Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
    Kolbers, My quest for odds and ends I need for my 670 project continues. I now am looking for a used Tee shaped dual inlet water pump housing that comes on the 582 blue head. And also a couple coolant outlet elbows that bolt on the heads of the liquid cooled Rotax twins. I can adapt a single inlet pump housing with a plastic tee in the line if I have to, but the dual inlet will make a much cleaner looking installation. Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:05:02 AM PST US
    Subject: propeller to boom tube clearance?
    From: "tombaisley" <tombaisley@yahoo.com>
    I have a MKIIIC w/ 582, installed a 66" two bladed prop mounted with a 3.5" spacer. The clearance is .875", it looks awful close? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415303#415303


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:19:49 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: propeller to boom tube clearance?
    From: Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
    My distance is 1.5", but I have heard of some that are less than an inch. My current engine is super smooth so it doesn't shake too much, when I swap to the 2 cylinder Rotax 670 I'm going to maintain at least my current distance as I have heard they are a little rough below 2500 rpm. Pretty sure you'll be ok, but check with other 582 operators. Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > On Dec 10, 2013, at 6:04 AM, "tombaisley" <tombaisley@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I have a MKIIIC w/ 582, installed a 66" two bladed prop mounted with a 3.5" spacer. The clearance is .875", it looks awful close? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415303#415303 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:34:27 AM PST US
    From: TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: propeller to boom tube clearance?
    Although this happened in a Drifter - the placement of the boom and propell er is similar enough that I'll share my own experience. I was testing a new prop that was slightly longer than the one I'd been flying with. There was about 1.5" clearance and it seemed fine - so I took it for a test flight. It was a fairly windy day and I landed at a friend's airport; due to the co nfiguration of hangars and hills and wind, I ran into mechanical windshear. I bounced upon landing, the boom flexed... and I ended up trucking the Dri fter out for repairs. =0A=0AI had flown many times in that level wind, had ignimoniously bounced before - but never with such disasterous results. I a ttribute it totally to the longer prop that didn't allow for sufficient cle arance.=0A=0AThe guys on this list will probably tell you what the correct clearance should be - and perhaps say that my Drifter experience has no sim ilarity to your Kolb. But your question brought up vivid memories!=0A=0AArt y Trost=0ASandy, Oregon=0A=0A=0A-=0Awww.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventur e2009.htm=0A=0A=0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"=0AHelen Keller=0A =0A=0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."=0A =0A=0A=0AOn Tuesday, December 10, 2013 3:10 AM, tombaisley <tombaisley@yaho ey@yahoo.com>=0A=0AI have a MKIIIC w/ 582, installed a- 66" two bladed pr op mounted with a 3.5" spacer. The clearance is .875", it looks awful close ?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.c ==


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:50:46 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: 582-99 water pump housing
    I can adapt a single inlet pump housing with a plastic tee in the line if I have to, but the dual inlet will make a much cleaner looking installation. Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA Dennis R/Kolbers: Had a nylon 1" hose barb fail on my well pump supply line recently. This plastic fitting was under ground with nice cool water flowing through it. I would consider the cooling system critical on a 582. Failure of a fitting would most likely put you down very quickly. Personally, I would go with aluminum pump housing. Check with Ronnie Smith, South Mississippi Light Aircraft if you cannot find another source. He probably has a used one. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:03:05 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: propeller to boom tube clearance?
    I have a MKIIIC w/ 582, installed a 66" two bladed prop mounted with a 3.5" spacer. The clearance is .875", it looks awful close? Tom B/Kolbers: Without digging out the MKIII Manual, I believe tail boom to prop tip clearance is 1". My last flight to Alaska I flew with a 72" Warp Drive 3 blade prop with 3/4" prop tip to tail boom clearance. Take a look at the way the engine mounts and airframe are designed. Then see how much you can deflect the engine downward. I don't recommend anyone flying with less than the published factory prop tip to tail boom clearance. However, 3/4" prop clearance was thoroughly tested before, during, and after my last flight north. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:17:07 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: propeller to boom tube clearance?
    Although this happened in a Drifter - the placement of the boom and propeller is similar enough that I'll share my own experience. Arty Trost Sandy, Oregon Arty T/Kolbers: Although the placement of the prop tip and tail boom on a Kolb, all models, is similar to a Maxair Drifter, that is where the similarity ends. If my recollection serves me correctly, the Drifter engine is mounted on a single square aluminum root tube that projects aft of any main fuselage down tubes for vertical support. Sitting here at my computer I can visualize that root tube deflecting downward during a hard landing. I once stalled my mkIII during takeoff from a very confined area at about 30 feet altitude with full flaps. I hit the ground so hard, in a level attitude, it wiped the main gear off the aircraft. After I finished crashing, I noticed two things. One, I was sitting much closer to the ground, and two, I could not find my glasses. Was wearing David Clark headset at the time. I hit the ground hard enough my glasses ended up in the nose pod. Despite the other damage, there was no prop strike. The prop was still turning when I hit the ground. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:23:58 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: propeller to boom tube clearance?
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Tom, I used a finger width as my gauge for clearance on the same setup. If you need more clearance you can flop the motor mounts, depending on how you have them set, so that the long side is down on the front pair and up on the rear pair. The change in angle also helps the airplane trim up a bit easier, too and you don't have to buy any new hardware. Rick Girard On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 5:04 AM, tombaisley <tombaisley@yahoo.com> wrote: > > I have a MKIIIC w/ 582, installed a 66" two bladed prop mounted with a > 3.5" spacer. The clearance is .875", it looks awful close? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415303#415303 > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:00:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 582-99 water pump housing
    From: Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
    Good tip John, I'll check with Ronnie, Rotax thinks highly of their parts so we'll see what a used one goes for. If I do go with a pumas tic one, I would make sure ifs rated for the heat swings inherent in a cooling system. Was thinking of something from an automotive heater system. 1" lines. Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > On Dec 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > I can adapt a single inlet pump housing with a plastic tee in the line if I > have to, but the dual inlet will make a much cleaner looking installation. > Dennis "Skid" Rowe > Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > > > > Dennis R/Kolbers: > > Had a nylon 1" hose barb fail on my well pump supply line recently. This > plastic fitting was under ground with nice cool water flowing through it. > > I would consider the cooling system critical on a 582. Failure of a fitting > would most likely put you down very quickly. > > Personally, I would go with aluminum pump housing. Check with Ronnie Smith, > South Mississippi Light Aircraft if you cannot find another source. He > probably has a used one. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 09:26:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 582-99 water pump housing
    From: Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
    I need to proof read my posts better. Auto correct tore that last one up! Do not archive Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > On Dec 10, 2013, at 11:59 AM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net> wrote: > > > Good tip John, I'll check with Ronnie, Rotax thinks highly of their parts so we'll see what a used one goes for. If I do go with a pumas tic one, I would make sure ifs rated for the heat swings inherent in a cooling system. Was thinking of something from an automotive heater system. 1" lines. > > Dennis "Skid" Rowe > Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > > > >> On Dec 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> I can adapt a single inlet pump housing with a plastic tee in the line if I >> have to, but the dual inlet will make a much cleaner looking installation. >> Dennis "Skid" Rowe >> Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA >> >> >> >> Dennis R/Kolbers: >> >> Had a nylon 1" hose barb fail on my well pump supply line recently. This >> plastic fitting was under ground with nice cool water flowing through it. >> >> I would consider the cooling system critical on a 582. Failure of a fitting >> would most likely put you down very quickly. >> >> Personally, I would go with aluminum pump housing. Check with Ronnie Smith, >> South Mississippi Light Aircraft if you cannot find another source. He >> probably has a used one. >> >> john h >> mkIII >> Titus, Alabama > > > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:54:12 PM PST US
    From: gliderx5@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: How much fabric to cover a Mark IIIc?
    Mike Oratex looks like a great product but it seems a little pricey for me. I lean to the frugal end of the scale using uncertified cloth and latex primer and paint. Even if it took 30 yds of material it would only cost around $300 for everything ($400 tops). I know it doesn't answer your question, but non-toxic food for thought! Malcolm Morrison ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike91911" <ko1m.mike@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2013 8:29:27 PM Subject: Kolb-List: How much fabric to cover a Mark IIIc? I'm researching the option of recovering my Mark IIIc in Oratex UL 600. How much fabric is required to cover a Mark IIIc? Better yet does anyone happen to have a list of what is required (fabric and tape). I haven't ruled out polyfiber but I'm a little dissapointed with the Kolb recommended supplier. (not why I'm considering Oratex) I contacted them on 3 separate occasions about ordering the kit to do the Mark IIIc and they never got back to me. This seems odd because I've heard nothing but good things about them and they were extremely nice when I talked to them but they just never followed up. The Oratex is about 71" wide and sold by the meter. I'm trying to figure out how many feet of 71" wide Oratex I need. I can then convert to meters. Kolb shows the Polyfiber kit as costing $1870 plus shipping and includes everything but the finish paint. How many gallons of finish paint (polytone) should I expect to use? Thanks, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415270#415270


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:07:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 582-99 water pump housing
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Denny, I have installed the radiator from the mid 80's Honda Magna motorcycle on two different 582 systems. They have the advantage of being A) cheap to buy and B) need no modifications to work. The last on a 582-99 performed a climb out to 6000 on a day when the temperature was 117F without ever getting to the red line on the temp gauge. The article I wrote about the installation is in the archives but if you cannot find it let me know and I can send you it to you. Ask your engine builder but you might want to consider the waterpump cover for the -90 rather than the -99. The later cover was designed with the PPC crowd in mind where the throttle is the elevator and the problem of flash cooling is endemic to them because of it. Rick Girard On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>wrote: > > Good tip John, I'll check with Ronnie, Rotax thinks highly of their parts > so we'll see what a used one goes for. If I do go with a pumas tic one, I > would make sure ifs rated for the heat swings inherent in a cooling system. > Was thinking of something from an automotive heater system. 1" lines. > > Dennis "Skid" Rowe > Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > > > > On Dec 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I can adapt a single inlet pump housing with a plastic tee in the line > if I > > have to, but the dual inlet will make a much cleaner looking > installation. > > Dennis "Skid" Rowe > > Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > > > > > > > > Dennis R/Kolbers: > > > > Had a nylon 1" hose barb fail on my well pump supply line recently. This > > plastic fitting was under ground with nice cool water flowing through it. > > > > I would consider the cooling system critical on a 582. Failure of a > fitting > > would most likely put you down very quickly. > > > > Personally, I would go with aluminum pump housing. Check with Ronnie > Smith, > > South Mississippi Light Aircraft if you cannot find another source. He > > probably has a used one. > > > > john h > > mkIII > > Titus, Alabama > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:22:19 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 582-99 water pump housing
    From: Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
    Thanks for the advice Richard, I'll look into that rad, right now I was plan ning on using a Honda TRX250R rad I have had for a while that looks to be id eally sized, but I will have to have larger spigots installed to fit the 1" r ad hoses of the Rotax. So I take it if you used the single inlet pump housing, you either blocked o ff one of the two water outlets in the head, or you installed a tee in the r eturn line to the pump? Or maybe you have the 582-90 single outlet head. Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > On Dec 10, 2013, at 7:07 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote: > > Denny, I have installed the radiator from the mid 80's Honda Magna motorcy cle on two different 582 systems. They have the advantage of being A) cheap t o buy and B) need no modifications to work. The last on a 582-99 performed a climb out to 6000 on a day when the temperature was 117F without ever getti ng to the red line on the temp gauge. The article I wrote about the installa tion is in the archives but if you cannot find it let me know and I can send you it to you. > Ask your engine builder but you might want to consider the waterpump cover for the -90 rather than the -99. The later cover was designed with the PPC c rowd in mind where the throttle is the elevator and the problem of flash coo ling is endemic to them because of it. > > Rick Girard > > >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net> w rote: >> >> Good tip John, I'll check with Ronnie, Rotax thinks highly of their parts so we'll see what a used one goes for. If I do go with a pumas tic one, I w ould make sure ifs rated for the heat swings inherent in a cooling system. W as thinking of something from an automotive heater system. 1" lines. >> >> Dennis "Skid" Rowe >> Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA >> >> >> >> > On Dec 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > I can adapt a single inlet pump housing with a plastic tee in the line i f I >> > have to, but the dual inlet will make a much cleaner looking installati on. >> > Dennis "Skid" Rowe >> > Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA >> > >> > >> > >> > Dennis R/Kolbers: >> > >> > Had a nylon 1" hose barb fail on my well pump supply line recently. Th is >> > plastic fitting was under ground with nice cool water flowing through i t. >> > >> > I would consider the cooling system critical on a 582. Failure of a fi tting >> > would most likely put you down very quickly. >> > >> > Personally, I would go with aluminum pump housing. Check with Ronnie S mith, >> > South Mississippi Light Aircraft if you cannot find another source. He >> > probably has a used one. >> > >> > john h >> > mkIII >> > Titus, Alabama >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> ========== >> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> et="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >> "_blank">www.mrrace.com >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> le, List Admin. >> ========== >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== > > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy . > - Groucho Marx > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D




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