---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/19/13: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:38 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/18/13 (Ted Cowan) 2. 03:54 AM - Re: Firefly/introduction (gliderx5@comcast.net) 3. 04:26 AM - Re: Firefly/introduction (Dennis Rowe) 4. 04:41 AM - Re: Firefly/introduction (tombaisley) 5. 04:49 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/18/13 (Bob Green) 6. 05:48 AM - Re: Firefly/introduction (Beauford) 7. 09:00 AM - Re: Firefly/introduction (Jason Omelchuck) 8. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Firefly/introduction (John Hauck) 9. 09:35 AM - Re: Re: Firefly/introduction (william sullivan) 10. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: Firefly/introduction (John Hauck) 11. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: Firefly/introduction (Dennis Rowe) 12. 01:59 PM - Re: Firefly/introduction (t41pilot) 13. 04:33 PM - Another "Kolb" Newby (sfrIII) 14. 05:45 PM - Re: Another "Kolb" Newby (John Hauck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:38:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/18/13 From: Ted Cowan I wouldnt put a hirth on a golf cart! I personally know of two that almost turned the planes into scrap. One fried pistons twice and brought the plane down and the other, hangered right here with me , cracked the casing next to the head in flight. Metel seems to be too soft to hold bolts from what i hear. Do a lot of ckecking. My buddy would be happy tp part with his very cheap. They offered to fix it for abt a thousand My opinions and observations. Ted Cowan slingshot 912 ul zoom zoom Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2013, at 2:01 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-12-18&Archive=Kolb > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-18&Archive=Kolb > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Kolb-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed 12/18/13: 3 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 03:17 PM - Re: Tee wagon (Rick Lewis) > 2. 05:27 PM - Firefly/introduction (Stuart Harner) > 3. 09:06 PM - Re: Firefly/introduction (Larry Cottrell) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:17:13 PM PST US > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tee wagon > From: "Rick Lewis" > > > I like it, good job, thanks for the picture.... > > -------- > Rick Lewis > > (VW Watercooled Engine) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415831#415831 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:27:35 PM PST US > From: "Stuart Harner" > Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly/introduction > > Hello Everyone, > > > My Firefly quick build kit arrived today. Partain Transportation delivered > it from the factory. I must say, I don't think there was any way to get it > here for less money and less hassle. The kit is excellent in workmanship > and there is no way I could have done it as quickly or as well as the > factory did. For me the quick build option is definitely the way to go. > > > I would be most interested in hearing from other Firefly owners on any > subject from the kit, covering, painting, or engine selection to flying > characteristics. > > > A little about me: > > > I learned to fly in an Aeronca LB-65 Pre-War Chief as a teenager. I owned > and flew a '63 Piper Cherokee 180 for a little over ten years and loved that > airplane! Alas, it became too expensive to keep when my flying habits > changed and cross country travel became a thing of the past. I flew the > Chief for a few years, but life changes made that more difficult and the > cost of owning a hanger and plane kept climbing, although my yearly logbook > entries kept shrinking. I finally sold the Chief this spring and started > looking for an ulta-light that I could keep and fly nearby. The hangar is > gone too, so storage in a trailer was one of my prime requirements. > > > Initially I was very intrigued by the BackYard Flyer. I contacted the > company and was very excited to visit with them at Oshkosh, fully prepared > to order one while there. I was greatly disappointed by the fact that they > did not even bring a partially build unit to show off at Oshkosh. It seemed > as though I was intruding on their family vacation by asking questions. I > liked the design and the price, but wanted to see one fly and get a good > firsthand look at the product. Delivery time was quoted at over a year and > there were no versions near me to look at. I left my contact information > with the company with promises to put me in touch with other owners so that > I may find out more. I never heard a word from them. > > > While walking the booths at Oshkosh, I found Kolb. I knew of them, but not > about them. When I discovered they folded up, I got very interested. > Visiting with Bryan and Travis was like a breath of fresh air, with a hint > of used car salesman thrown in. But what the heck, that is their job. I > found them to be friendly, and straight forward. I did not commit at > Oshkosh, but thought about the Firefly all the way home and spent an entire > day on the internet researching the plane and the company. I could not find > any disparaging remarks AT ALL! I bit the bullet and ordered my kit. > > > Kolb has been a delight to work with, and I expect to be in much closer > contact with them as I get into the process of finishing the Firefly. Based > on my experiences so far, I expect this is going to be fairly easy and lots > of fun. I have no worries about getting support from the factory. > > > I have not made an engine decision yet, but will be ordering the covering > kit soon. I helped a friend cover and paint his Fisher Classic with > Polyfiber products several years ago and was so impressed, I don't think I > will use anything else. Anyone want to try and persuade me differently? > Please let me hear from you. > > > I am leaning towards the Hirth 2702 with a Warp Drive 3 blade, but again, I > want to hear from others. > > > One last note, I really liked the delivery service by Partain. I had not > heard of them, but Travis at Kolb made all the arrangements. I could not > have gotten the kit here by any other means for less $ and it was hassle > free. I would definitely use them again. Thanks to Tony Partain and driver > Michael! > > > I have perused the forums and am hoping to start quite a lot of conversation > about the Firefly. > > > Thanks for your consideration. > > > Stuart Harner > > Central North Dakota > > > P.S. Anyone want a partially completed Loehle 5151 Kit? I certainly don't > need it anymore, I have a FIREFLY!!! > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:06:33 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly/introduction > From: Larry Cottrell > > It appears that all the experts are busy, so I will at least acknowledge > that your question was seen at least by one. First congratulations on your > smart choice. I believe that you will love the little bird. However unless > there has been some serious changes with Hirth I would do a lot of checking > before I committed to it. I have no solid evidence against them, other than > the experiences of a couple of friends, which were not all that good. > Good luck, > Larry > > > On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Stuart Harner wrote > : > >> Hello Everyone, >> >> >> My Firefly quick build kit arrived today. Partain Transportation >> delivered it from the factory. I must say, I don=92t think there was any > way >> to get it here for less money and less hassle. The kit is excellent in >> workmanship and there is no way I could have done it as quickly or as wel > l >> as the factory did. For me the quick build option is definitely the way > to >> go. >> >> >> I would be most interested in hearing from other Firefly owners on any >> subject from the kit, covering, painting, or engine selection to flying >> characteristics. >> >> >> A little about me: >> >> >> I learned to fly in an Aeronca LB-65 Pre-War Chief as a teenager. I owne > d >> and flew a =9263 Piper Cherokee 180 for a little over ten years and loved >> that airplane! Alas, it became too expensive to keep when my flying habi > ts >> changed and cross country travel became a thing of the past. I flew the >> Chief for a few years, but life changes made that more difficult and the >> cost of owning a hanger and plane kept climbing, although my yearly logbo > ok >> entries kept shrinking. I finally sold the Chief this spring and started >> looking for an ulta-light that I could keep and fly nearby. The hangar i > s >> gone too, so storage in a trailer was one of my prime requirements. >> >> >> Initially I was very intrigued by the BackYard Flyer. I contacted the >> company and was very excited to visit with them at Oshkosh, fully prepare > d >> to order one while there. I was greatly disappointed by the fact that th > ey >> did not even bring a partially build unit to show off at Oshkosh. It >> seemed as though I was intruding on their family vacation by asking >> questions. I liked the design and the price, but wanted to see one fly a > nd >> get a good firsthand look at the product. Delivery time was quoted at ov > er >> a year and there were no versions near me to look at. I left my contact >> information with the company with promises to put me in touch with other >> owners so that I may find out more. I never heard a word from them. >> >> >> While walking the booths at Oshkosh, I found Kolb. I knew of them, but >> not about them. When I discovered they folded up, I got very interested. >> Visiting with Bryan and Travis was like a breath of fresh air, with a hin > t >> of used car salesman thrown in. But what the heck, that is their job. I >> found them to be friendly, and straight forward. I did not commit at >> Oshkosh, but thought about the Firefly all the way home and spent an enti > re >> day on the internet researching the plane and the company. I could not >> find any disparaging remarks AT ALL! I bit the bullet and ordered my kit > .. >> >> >> Kolb has been a delight to work with, and I expect to be in much closer >> contact with them as I get into the process of finishing the Firefly. >> Based on my experiences so far, I expect this is going to be fairly easy >> and lots of fun. I have no worries about getting support from the factor > y. >> >> >> I have not made an engine decision yet, but will be ordering the covering >> kit soon. I helped a friend cover and paint his Fisher Classic with >> Polyfiber products several years ago and was so impressed, I don=92t thin > k I >> will use anything else. Anyone want to try and persuade me differently? >> Please let me hear from you. >> >> >> I am leaning towards the Hirth 2702 with a Warp Drive 3 blade, but again, >> I want to hear from others. >> >> >> One last note, I really liked the delivery service by Partain. I had not >> heard of them, but Travis at Kolb made all the arrangements. I could not >> have gotten the kit here by any other means for less $ and it was hassle >> free. I would definitely use them again. Thanks to Tony Partain and >> driver Michael! >> >> >> I have perused the forums and am hoping to start quite a lot of >> conversation about the Firefly. >> >> >> Thanks for your consideration. >> >> >> Stuart Harner >> >> Central North Dakota >> >> >> P.S. Anyone want a partially completed Loehle 5151 Kit? I certainly >> don=92t need it anymore, I have a FIREFLY!!! >> >> >> * > ========== > m> > ldersbooks.com> > .com> > com> > om/contribution> > ========== > onics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List> > ========== > ========== >> * > > > -- > *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending.* > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:07 AM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly/introduction Stuart Congrats on the Kolb. You're going to love it! I don't have any experience with the Hirth engines, but I think a Rotax 447 would certainly be a great fit, and they are available for very little money. Also, I preach the gospe l of latex paint. Polyfiber is a great product, but if cost or health conce rns are an issue you might have a look at latex. Here's a link to some info rmation on it if you're interested. http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/L atex.htm . And, here's a link to my Kolb MKII page. You might find the trai ler interesting. http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/kolb.htm Best of luck on the new project Malcolm Morrison ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Cottrell" Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 12:05:53 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly/introduction It appears that all the experts are busy, so I will at least acknowledge th at your question was seen at least by one. First congratulations on your sm art choice. I believe that you will love the little bird. However unless th ere has been some serious changes with Hirth I would do a lot of checking b efore I committed to it. I have no solid evidence against them, other than the experiences of a couple of friends, which were not all that good. Good luck, Larry On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Stuart Harner < stuart@harnerfarm.net > wr ote: Hello Everyone, My Firefly quick build kit arrived today. Partain Transportation delivered it from the factory. I must say, I don=99t think there was any way to get it here for less money and less hassle. The kit is excellent in workma nship and there is no way I could have done it as quickly or as well as the factory did. For me the quick build option is definitely the way to go. I would be most interested in hearing from other Firefly owners on any subj ect from the kit, covering, painting, or engine selection to flying charact eristics. A little about me: I learned to fly in an Aeronca LB-65 Pre-War Chief as a teenager. I owned a nd flew a =9963 Piper Cherokee 180 for a little over ten years and lo ved that airplane! Alas, it became too expensive to keep when my flying hab its changed and cross country travel became a thing of the past. I flew the Chief for a few years, but life changes made that more difficult and the c ost of owning a hanger and plane kept climbing, although my yearly logbook entries kept shrinking. I finally sold the Chief this spring and started lo oking for an ulta-light that I could keep and fly nearby. The hangar is gon e too, so storage in a trailer was one of my prime requirements. Initially I was very intrigued by the BackYard Flyer. I contacted the compa ny and was very excited to visit with them at Oshkosh, fully prepared to or der one while there. I was greatly disappointed by the fact that they did n ot even bring a partially build unit to show off at Oshkosh. It seemed as t hough I was intruding on their family vacation by asking questions. I liked the design and the price, but wanted to see one fly and get a good firstha nd look at the product. Delivery time was quoted at over a year and there w ere no versions near me to look at. I left my contact information with the company with promises to put me in touch with other owners so that I may fi nd out more. I never heard a word from them. While walking the booths at Oshkosh, I found Kolb. I knew of them, but not about them. When I discovered they folded up, I got very interested. Visiti ng with Bryan and Travis was like a breath of fresh air, with a hint of use d car salesman thrown in. But what the heck, that is their job. I found the m to be friendly, and straight forward. I did not commit at Oshkosh, but th ought about the Firefly all the way home and spent an entire day on the int ernet researching the plane and the company. I could not find any disparagi ng remarks AT ALL! I bit the bullet and ordered my kit. Kolb has been a delight to work with, and I expect to be in much closer con tact with them as I get into the process of finishing the Firefly. Based on my experiences so far, I expect this is going to be fairly easy and lots o f fun. I have no worries about getting support from the factory. I have not made an engine decision yet, but will be ordering the covering k it soon. I helped a friend cover and paint his Fisher Classic with Polyfibe r products several years ago and was so impressed, I don=99t think I will use anything else. Anyone want to try and persuade me differently? Ple ase let me hear from you. I am leaning towards the Hirth 2702 with a Warp Drive 3 blade, but again, I want to hear from others. One last note, I really liked the delivery service by Partain. I had not he ard of them, but Travis at Kolb made all the arrangements. I could not have gotten the kit here by any other means for less $ and it was hassle free. I would definitely use them again. Thanks to Tony Partain and driver Michae l! I have perused the forums and am hoping to start quite a lot of conversatio n about the Firefly. Thanks for your consideration. Stuart Harner Central North Dakota P.S. Anyone want a partially completed Loehle 5151 Kit? I certainly don =99t need it anymore, I have a FIREFLY!!! _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com ank">www.mrrace.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com -- If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email addres s before sending. =========== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly/introduction From: Dennis Rowe Welcome aboard and congrats on your new toy! You'll love the sporty handling of the Firefly, I flew a friends 447 powered Fly a couple years ago and it was a plane that made me want to stay up till I ran out of gas. Stalls were so fun that my wife actually called me on the radio and said to knock it off. Very responsive and nimble and speedy as an ultralight can get. I hope to have one of my own someday. As far as engine choice, I would have to say the 447 is a no brainer, makes i f a real hotrod. Of course a freshly rebuilt old 377 Rotax would also be tempting and very ec onomical. As always, make sure to do transition training in a two seat Kolb before you r first flight as these light weight high drag types are a different animal t han you are used to. Enjoy the build. And put me in the Poly Fiber camp. Jim and Dondi at aircraft tech support ar e wonderful folks. Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > On Dec 18, 2013, at 8:27 PM, "Stuart Harner" wrote : > > Hello Everyone, > > My Firefly quick build kit arrived today. Partain Transportation delivere d it from the factory. I must say, I don=99t think there was any way t o get it here for less money and less hassle. The kit is excellent in workm anship and there is no way I could have done it as quickly or as well as the factory did. For me the quick build option is definitely the way to go. > > I would be most interested in hearing from other Firefly owners on any sub ject from the kit, covering, painting, or engine selection to flying charact eristics. > > A little about me: > > I learned to fly in an Aeronca LB-65 Pre-War Chief as a teenager. I owned and flew a =9963 Piper Cherokee 180 for a little over ten years and l oved that airplane! Alas, it became too expensive to keep when my flying ha bits changed and cross country travel became a thing of the past. I flew th e Chief for a few years, but life changes made that more difficult and the c ost of owning a hanger and plane kept climbing, although my yearly logbook e ntries kept shrinking. I finally sold the Chief this spring and started loo king for an ulta-light that I could keep and fly nearby. The hangar is gone too, so storage in a trailer was one of my prime requirements. > > Initially I was very intrigued by the BackYard Flyer. I contacted the com pany and was very excited to visit with them at Oshkosh, fully prepared to o rder one while there. I was greatly disappointed by the fact that they did n ot even bring a partially build unit to show off at Oshkosh. It seemed as t hough I was intruding on their family vacation by asking questions. I liked the design and the price, but wanted to see one fly and get a good firsthan d look at the product. Delivery time was quoted at over a year and there we re no versions near me to look at. I left my contact information with the c ompany with promises to put me in touch with other owners so that I may find out more. I never heard a word from them. > > While walking the booths at Oshkosh, I found Kolb. I knew of them, but no t about them. When I discovered they folded up, I got very interested. Vis iting with Bryan and Travis was like a breath of fresh air, with a hint of u sed car salesman thrown in. But what the heck, that is their job. I found t hem to be friendly, and straight forward. I did not commit at Oshkosh, but t hought about the Firefly all the way home and spent an entire day on the int ernet researching the plane and the company. I could not find any disparagi ng remarks AT ALL! I bit the bullet and ordered my kit. > > Kolb has been a delight to work with, and I expect to be in much closer co ntact with them as I get into the process of finishing the Firefly. Based o n my experiences so far, I expect this is going to be fairly easy and lots o f fun. I have no worries about getting support from the factory. > > I have not made an engine decision yet, but will be ordering the covering k it soon. I helped a friend cover and paint his Fisher Classic with Polyfibe r products several years ago and was so impressed, I don=99t think I w ill use anything else. Anyone want to try and persuade me differently? Ple ase let me hear from you. > > I am leaning towards the Hirth 2702 with a Warp Drive 3 blade, but again, I want to hear from others. > > One last note, I really liked the delivery service by Partain. I had not h eard of them, but Travis at Kolb made all the arrangements. I could not hav e gotten the kit here by any other means for less $ and it was hassle free. I would definitely use them again. Thanks to Tony Partain and driver Micha el! > > I have perused the forums and am hoping to start quite a lot of conversati on about the Firefly. > > Thanks for your consideration. > > Stuart Harner > Central North Dakota > > P.S. Anyone want a partially completed Loehle 5151 Kit? I certainly don =99t need it anymore, I have a FIREFLY!!! > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:09 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/introduction From: "tombaisley" Rotax, PolyFiber Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415853#415853 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:59 AM PST US From: Bob Green Subject: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/18/13 CONGRATULATIONS! Stuart. Thanks for sharing. I would definitely go with Poli-fiber from Aircraft Technical Support. They give the same great service as Travis and Bryan and Dennis. All-around great folk involved in producing, building, flying and supplying, etc. Kolbs. Thank God for Mr Kolb. Have a Blessed Christmas as you begin building. Bob MKIIIX< Great Plains VW w/re-drive N830PB ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:26 AM PST US From: "Beauford " Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firefly/introduction Welcome to the list, Brother Harner. I believe you will find a number of Kolbers on this list who will assure you that you made a good choice in selecting the Fly, and an even wiser choice in having the good lads in London execute the quick-build for you. They are well known for their high quality work/support and your expression of satisfaction with their efforts is not unusual. I ordered the kit from Pennsylvania Kolb and began building my Fly in '99 --- first flew it in the autumn of 2001. There is nothing kinky about the building process and with your experience with Polyfiber, covering it should be a piece of cake for you. The Kolb plans and instruction manual are well done. If you don't have one, a copy of the Stits manual might be another good resource to have around. I have had great luck with the EIS system.mine has been flawless since the very first flight and the Grand Rapids folks are great people who really support their product well. I do not hesitate to recommend them. To Hirth, or not to Hirth, may well prove to be the single most entertaining aspect of your adventure. Were I hanging on the cusp of that one, I would invest in a substantial amount of research out among those who are actually operating Hirths before I committed. I have seen two of them operate on Airport Manatee, both on trikes - suffice it to say they both engines appeared to have "colorful" service records, matched with the equally colorful vocabularies displayed by the individuals who were working with them. Do you plan to install a BRS chute?. I have a 750 canister model atop mine and have no trouble with that installation. Aside from your GA acft experience, you didn't mention whether you had spent any time fooling around with low-inertia machines like the Kolbs. They be different. By the time you get ready to commit aviation with yours, you will have suffered plenty of free advice about the unique manner in which they can decelerate when the power is pulled off. Think of a fast ball pitcher delivering a wadded up Kleenex. Your old LB-65 would have gotten to home plate. trust me, the Kleenex will not. You might want to consider finding someone with a two-place Kolb and planning for an hour or two of touch and goes, just for drill... can't hurt. You also did not mention how large a person you are.. I go about 210 to 215. With that stingy little 22 foot wing, and a pleasingly corpulent driver such as myself, I have found that Fly aviation can, under certain circumstances, tend to take on more of the characteristics of a ballistic event, rather than the one with the puffy clouds and eagles I had envisioned in my mind's eye as I was humming the "Right Stuff" theme and drilling holes and pulling rivets all those months. I have heard anecdotal evidence that humans of a more reasonable bulk find the Fly to be a sprightly performer indeed. Speaking of the 22 foot wing, I found, through experimentation that vortex generators made a substantial positive difference in the performance of the wing at stall. I ended up using the LandShorter units ; lowered the stall by 4 mph indicated, but more significantly, enabled a more buoyant feeling on the roundout flare for full stall arrivals. Flew the first six years without them, wish I had added them sooner. All that said, I really like my little bird. It is a sturdy, honest little steed without a sneaky tube in its body once we established our respective limits and mutually agreed to live within them. I'll bet you are going to have a lot of fun with yours. This List, aside from what I dribble onto it, is a great source of information and accumulated wisdom for a person building a Kolb.. There are some very experienced and innovative folks on here who will not hesitate to jump in and share their knowledge with you if you hit a building snag or want to consider an unusual option. Once again, welcome. Worth what ye paid fer it. beauford FF-076, N173BW Brandon, FL From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Harner Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 8:27 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly/introduction Hello Everyone, My Firefly quick build kit arrived today. Partain Transportation delivered it from the factory. I must say, I don't think there was any way to get it here for less money and less hassle. The kit is excellent in workmanship and there is no way I could have done it as quickly or as well as the factory did. For me the quick build option is definitely the way to go. I would be most interested in hearing from other Firefly owners on any subject from the kit, covering, painting, or engine selection to flying characteristics. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:39 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/introduction From: "Jason Omelchuck" I am in no way endorsing this engine and I do not have any experience with them but here is another option to explore. http://www.compactradialengines.com/mz201.html the 447 sure does have a lot of history behind it Have fun and be safe Jason Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415859#415859 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:05 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/introduction Welcome to the Kolb Flyers and Builders List: I've been doing this Kolb building and flying thing for a while, plus some other flying before that. I have no problem remembering where I will spend my time once my little airplane is up and flying. Right! In the air. A very serious place to play. Gravity never goes away and Murphy never goes to sleep. I never realized how hard the ground was until the first time I crashed. It was just as hard the second and third time. I want the best of the best to fly and keep me in the air. Flew with 2 strokes for the first 9 years on my Ultrastar, Firestar, and MKIII experience. After the bullet proof 582 proved me wrong, I decided to go 4 stroke and have never looked back in the past 29 years of flying in front of 912's. If I was serious about flying a Firestar or Firefly again, I'd probably go with an HKS. Some of my Kolb friends fly with the HKS which has produced good reliable power for them. 4 strokes are not bullet proof. Same for certified recip engines and turbines. Normally, they are not the problem when an engine out occurs, but some minor problem like, bad fuel, spark plug wires, throttle cable, etc. If I was going to fly a Firefly with a two stroke, I'd go with a 447, or better yet, a 503 (assuming Kolb Aircraft would endorse a 503 on a Firefly). john h mkIII Titus, Alabama - Going flying today to take advantage of some beautiful weather and take some photos of my neighbors homes. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:23 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/introduction - If I remember correctly, Jack Hart was trying an MZ engine.- I haven' t seen any recent updates from him.=0A=0A----------- ------------------------- ------------------------- ----------- Bill Sullivan=0A-------- ------------------------- ------------------------- -------------- Windsor Locks, Ct.=0A--- ------------------------- ------------------------- -------------------- FS 447=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Jason Omelchuck =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 12:00 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/introduction=0A =0A=0A--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jason Omelchuck" =0A=0AI am in no way endorsing this engine and I do not have any experience with t hem but here is another option to explore.=0A=0Ahttp://www.compactradialeng ines.com/mz201.html=0A=0Athe 447 sure does have a lot of history behind it =0A=0AHave fun and be safe=0AJason=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online her e:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415859#415859=0A=0A ============ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:20 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/introduction Flew with 2 strokes for the first 9 years on my Ultrastar, Firestar, and MKIII experience. After the bullet proof 582 proved me wrong, I decided to go 4 stroke and have never looked back in the past 29 years of flying in front of 912's. ****************************************** The above should have read "20 years". Not "29". john h ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/introduction From: Dennis Rowe Shweww, I was hoping it hadn't been that long that the 912s been around. But still, time flies. Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > The above should have read "20 years". Not "29". > > john h > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:35 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/introduction From: "t41pilot" Congrats on the Firefly Purchase. I bought my kit a couple years ago and have not regretted it. I had no prior knowledge of building, covering or painting and was nevertheless quite pleased with my result. I must admit that I liked making the parts better than the covering and paint. The poly fiber process was not difficult, just time consuming. It was really forgiving if you didn't have it exactly right. Most of the time I could shrink out any extra wrinkles around the curves. The poly tone paint was easy to use. I just did my painting horozontaly as much as possible and the paint just flowed out very smoothly. That was just what this newbie needed. I don't have any knowledge of using latex but you should research if there would be a weight difference between that and poly-tone. I use a rotax 447 which makes this plane a hotrod for my 150 pound body. I'm off the ground before the throttle is full.(Flying off a paved runway) I also would highly recommend the Grand Rapids unit to monitor the engine. Knowing what the EGT and CHT are doing is important. The GR unit is very accurate. I used those readings to set my IVO prop to the right pitch. The unit also has a warning light to let you know if anything is getting out of hand. My EGT goes up very quickly when I unload the prop during flight (nose down as one example) or if my rpms are in the midrange area for very long. Also the weight of the finished firefly will likely be critical. I opted to go with the standard no brakes, short windshield, no electric start kit and came in just under the legal weight limit. I go to a lot of pancake breakfast fly-ins though and don't see any ultralight police so you would probably be ok to do what you want. Use your own judgment on that. I wish I had some brakes and may do that someday but if you fly off grass, then brakes are not necessary. I have some videos on You tube. There is a walkaround and some flying videos. Just type my full name in the search field. I can't wait to build another plane. Hope you e! njoy you rs. Regards -------- Gregg Kaat 2011 Firefly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415875#415875 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:07 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Another "Kolb" Newby From: "sfrIII" Hi again everyone. My name is Sam Ragland and I have been following this forum since @ May 2013. Thats when I ordered my MarkIII Extra. I am happy to say that it finally arrived on Dec.18 2013. My Engine of choice is a newly prepared Corvair that was going to be used in another project. To date I have never seen a Corvair used in this airframe, but with help from Travis and his welder and a mock up engine complete with engine mount, a Corvair ready airframe was created for me. Hope to get started soon. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415882#415882 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/corvair_engine1_998.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/corvair_engine2_645.jpg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:44 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Another "Kolb" Newby Sam R/Kolbers: I know you are excited about your new kit. Good luck on your new project. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama My name is Sam Ragland and I have been following this forum since @ May 2013. Thats when I ordered my MarkIII Extra. I am happy to say that it finally arrived on Dec.18 2013. My Engine of choice is a newly prepared Corvair that was going to be used in another project. To date I have never seen a Corvair used in this airframe, but with help from Travis and his welder and a mock up engine complete with engine mount, a Corvair ready airframe was created for me. Hope to get started soon. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415882#415882 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/corvair_engine1_998.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/corvair_engine2_645.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.