Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:44 AM - Re: help with newly purchased firestar II (mojavjoe@comcast.net)
2. 06:33 AM - Re: help with newly purchased firestar II (Rick Neilsen)
3. 07:55 AM - Re: help with newly purchased firestar II (Charlie England)
4. 08:34 AM - Re: help with newly purchased firestar II (Jack)
5. 08:42 AM - Re: help with newly purchased firestar II (Wilton Ricketts)
6. 09:00 AM - Re: help with newly purchased firestar II (racerjerry)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: help with newly purchased firestar II |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Neilsen" <neilsenrm@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 10:59:22 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: help with newly purchased firestar II
mojavjoe
I have a Kolb MKIII so my=C2-knowledge=C2-is a bit limited on a firesta
r II.=C2-
1. Most Kolbs have a high thrust line that causes pitch changes with thrott
le changes. Our planes fly best with lowest possible thrust lines. I was th
e first to put a VW on a mkIII, the=C2-initial=C2-thrust line was so hi
gh that it was dangerous to fly. Raising the engine will reduce=C2-perfor
mance=C2-and increase pitch changes with=C2-changes of throttle. None o
f this is good so consider this change carefully.
5. Most Kolbs don't need the protective hoop. Just keep the stick back belo
w 10MPH and don't go for full throttle until after you get moving.
6. Gap seals are in the plans for all Kolbs. The instructions call for fabr
ic glued from the bottom of one tube to the top of the other tube ( don't r
emember which). Just don't restrict the aileron movement from stop to stop
and when folding. Most people don't install the seals over the=C2-hinges.
Some people have used book binding tape with great=C2-success. The worst
performing Kolb I ever saw didn't have gap seals. The plane's builder does
n't think the seals are important. The lack of seals wasn't the only reason
for the=C2-horrible=C2-performance but it was part of it.=C2-
How bad is=C2-horrible? The plane is a MKIIIC with a 582. They were at gr
oss weight on a 80 degree day. the strip is at 850 asl. The plane took ever
y inch of my 1400 foot grass strip to clear the ground that is with the las
t half of the strip=C2-descending=C2-30'. Then a half mile off the end
of my strip they had to turn to miss a line of 20 foot trees. Let me very c
lear here this VERY unkolb like.
As usual worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC=C2-
=C2-
Thanks Rick
=C2-
I now understand the gap seal but that method won't work in the area where
I have piano hinge. The article I mentioned recommended gorrala tape,so I'l
l fill in the area between the aileron and the control arm
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 2:56 PM, < mojavjoe@comcast.net > wrote:
=C2-
=C2-hi
=C2-
I recently purchased the firestar II resurrected in 2011 by Daryl Miller. I
have a few issues I hope you can help me with.
=C2-
1.=C2- I can't park the 2 bladed prop in the horizontal position and fold
the wings. With the wings folded the three inch prop extension=C2- puts
the bottom of the blade two inches below the top of the aileron tube.=C2-
I've been on the web and found a few blogs from the 90's that described ra
ising the front and/or back of a 503 but when I tried to go back I couldn't
find then. I've brought up pictures of Kolbs and in some of them the Rotex
's were raised to what appears to be two to three inches on=C2-standoffs
above the engine mounts. I don't want to go to the expense of a three blade
d prop and moving the prop will lower the roof of the trailer/hanger I'm bu
ilding twenty inches.
=C2-
2. I'm planning to do a new weight an balance and the only information I ca
n find is for the firestar in which the formula=C2-=C2-for % C.G.=C2-
is h x 100/64, h being resultant distance. In figuring the w & b for the fi
restar II Daryl Miller apparently used a divisor of=C2-61. Which is corre
ct?
=C2-
3.=C2- The designation is experimental exhibition, what is necessary to c
hange it to experimental light sport.
=C2-
4.=C2- The plane has no brakes.=C2- I'm looking at small motorcycle dis
k brakes, any suggestions .
=C2-
5.=C2- Could someone give me a description , measurements, and possibly p
lans for the hoop just behind the nosecone I've seen on several kolbs. Are
they made of aluminum or steel.
=C2-
6. My aileron is attached to the wing with a piano hinge. I read in an avia
tion monthly that an aileron seal was recommended. Do I need them, if so wh
at do they look like, how do I make them, and how do I attach them.
=C2-
I appreciate any help and thank you in advance
=C2-
mojavjoe
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
===========
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: help with newly purchased firestar II |
mojavjoe
The idea is to stop air flow in the area between the aileron and the
control arm. Anything that safely does this is fine. I have seen the book
binding tape installed and it looks great. The piano hinge reduces air flow
so most people don't put it there. I didn't use the tape method but I'm
told you install it in two layers sticky side to sticky side to keep dirt
and other crap from sticking to the unused adhesive.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 8:44 AM, <mojavjoe@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Rick Neilsen" <neilsenrm@gmail.com>
> *To: *kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, December 22, 2013 10:59:22 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: help with newly purchased firestar II
>
> mojavjoe
>
> I have a Kolb MKIII so my knowledge is a bit limited on a firestar II.
>
> 1. Most Kolbs have a high thrust line that causes pitch changes with
> throttle changes. Our planes fly best with lowest possible thrust lines. I
> was the first to put a VW on a mkIII, the initial thrust line was so high
> that it was dangerous to fly. Raising the engine will
> reduce performance and increase pitch changes with changes of throttle.
> None of this is good so consider this change carefully.
>
> 5. Most Kolbs don't need the protective hoop. Just keep the stick back
> below 10MPH and don't go for full throttle until after you get moving.
>
> 6. Gap seals are in the plans for all Kolbs. The instructions call for
> fabric glued from the bottom of one tube to the top of the other tube (
> don't remember which). Just don't restrict the aileron movement from stop
> to stop and when folding. Most people don't install the seals over
> the hinges. Some people have used book binding tape with great success. The
> worst performing Kolb I ever saw didn't have gap seals. The plane's builder
> doesn't think the seals are important. The lack of seals wasn't the only
> reason for the horrible performance but it was part of it.
>
> How bad is horrible? The plane is a MKIIIC with a 582. They were at gross
> weight on a 80 degree day. the strip is at 850 asl. The plane took every
> inch of my 1400 foot grass strip to clear the ground that is with the last
> half of the strip descending 30'. Then a half mile off the end of my strip
> they had to turn to miss a line of 20 foot trees. Let me very clear here
> this VERY unkolb like.
>
> As usual worth what you paid for it.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
>
> Thanks Rick
>
> I now understand the gap seal but that method won't work in the area where
> I have piano hinge. The article I mentioned recommended gorrala tape,so
> I'll fill in the area between the aileron and the control arm
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 2:56 PM, <mojavjoe@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> hi
>>
>> I recently purchased the firestar II resurrected in 2011 by Daryl
>> Miller. I have a few issues I hope you can help me with.
>>
>> 1. I can't park the 2 bladed prop in the horizontal position and fold
>> the wings. With the wings folded the three inch prop extension puts the
>> bottom of the blade two inches below the top of the aileron tube. I've
>> been on the web and found a few blogs from the 90's that described raising
>> the front and/or back of a 503 but when I tried to go back I couldn't find
>> then. I've brought up pictures of Kolbs and in some of them the Rotex'swere
raised to what appears to be two to three inches on standoffs above
>> the engine mounts. I don't want to go to the expense of a three bladed prop
>> and moving the prop will lower the roof of the trailer/hanger I'm building
>> twenty inches.
>>
>> 2. I'm planning to do a new weight an balance and the only information I
>> can find is for the firestar in which the formula for % C.G. is h x
>> 100/64, h being resultant distance. In figuring the w & b for the
>> firestar II Daryl Miller apparently used a divisor of 61. Which is
>> correct?
>>
>> 3. The designation is experimental exhibition, what is necessary to
>> change it to experimental light sport.
>>
>> 4. The plane has no brakes. I'm looking at small motorcycle disk
>> brakes, any suggestions.
>>
>> 5. Could someone give me a description, measurements, and possiblyplans for
the hoop just behind the nosecone I've seen on several kolbs.
>> Are they made of aluminum or steel.
>>
>> 6. My aileron is attached to the wing with a piano hinge. I read in an
>> aviation monthly that an aileron seal was recommended. Do I need them, if
>> so what do they look like, how do I make them, and how do I attach them.
>>
>> I appreciate any help and thank you in advance
>>
>> mojavjoe
>>
>> *
>>
>> 3D============================================
>> 3D============================================
>> 3D============================================
>> 3D============================================
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: help with newly purchased firestar II |
The chances of getting it out of experimental exhibition in to any other
cert. category are slim to none. Sounds like the owner missed the
deadline on taking a 'fat' ultralite into exp.-light sport, & the FSDO
gave him the only legal option left: exp. exhibition. The only big
downside to exhibition category is needing an A&P to do your annual.
There used to be big restrictions to cross-country flight: 300 mile
radius for 'proficiency flying', with landings only at the base airport,
and cross countries only for the purpose of exhibiting or demonstrating.
I have a vague memory of those restrictions being lifted recently, but
I've been unable to find anything in print to verify that.
Charlie
On 12/23/2013 8:32 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote:
> mojavjoe
>
> The idea is to stop air flow in the area between the aileron and the
> control arm. Anything that safely does this is fine. I have seen the
> book binding tape installed and it looks great. The piano hinge
> reduces air flow so most people don't put it there. I didn't use the
> tape method but I'm told you install it in two layers sticky side to
> sticky side to keep dirt and other crap from sticking to the
> unused adhesive.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 8:44 AM, <mojavjoe@comcast.net
> <mailto:mojavjoe@comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Rick Neilsen" <neilsenrm@gmail.com
> <mailto:neilsenrm@gmail.com>>
> *To: *kolb-list@matronics.com <mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, December 22, 2013 10:59:22 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: help with newly purchased firestar II
>
> mojavjoe
>
> I have a Kolb MKIII so my knowledge is a bit limited on a firestar
> II.
>
> 1. Most Kolbs have a high thrust line that causes pitch changes
> with throttle changes. Our planes fly best with lowest possible
> thrust lines. I was the first to put a VW on a mkIII,
> the initial thrust line was so high that it was dangerous to fly.
> Raising the engine will reduce performance and increase pitch
> changes with changes of throttle. None of this is good so consider
> this change carefully.
>
> 5. Most Kolbs don't need the protective hoop. Just keep the stick
> back below 10MPH and don't go for full throttle until after you
> get moving.
>
> 6. Gap seals are in the plans for all Kolbs. The instructions call
> for fabric glued from the bottom of one tube to the top of the
> other tube ( don't remember which). Just don't restrict the
> aileron movement from stop to stop and when folding. Most people
> don't install the seals over the hinges. Some people have used
> book binding tape with great success. The worst performing Kolb I
> ever saw didn't have gap seals. The plane's builder doesn't think
> the seals are important. The lack of seals wasn't the only reason
> for the horrible performance but it was part of it.
>
> How bad is horrible? The plane is a MKIIIC with a 582. They were
> at gross weight on a 80 degree day. the strip is at 850 asl. The
> plane took every inch of my 1400 foot grass strip to clear the
> ground that is with the last half of the strip descending 30'.
> Then a half mile off the end of my strip they had to turn to miss
> a line of 20 foot trees. Let me very clear here this VERY unkolb like.
>
> As usual worth what you paid for it.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
> Thanks Rick
> I now understand the gap seal but that method won't work in the
> area where I have piano hinge. The article I mentioned recommended
> gorrala tape,so I'll fill in the area between the aileron and the
> control arm
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 2:56 PM, <mojavjoe@comcast.net
> <mailto:mojavjoe@comcast.net>> wrote:
>
> hi
> I recently purchased the firestar II resurrected in 2011 by
> Daryl Miller. I have a few issues I hope you can help me with.
> 1. I can't park the 2 bladed prop in the horizontal position
> and fold the wings. With the wings folded the three inch prop
> extension puts the bottom of the blade two inches below the
> top of the aileron tube. I've been on the web and found a few
> blogs from the 90's that described raising the front and/or
> back of a 503 but when I tried to go back I couldn't find
> then. I've brought up pictures of Kolbs and in some of them
> the Rotex's were raised to what appears to be two to three
> inches on standoffs above the engine mounts. I don't want to
> go to the expense of a three bladed prop and moving the prop
> will lower the roof of the trailer/hanger I'm building twenty
> inches.
> 2. I'm planning to do a new weight an balance and the only
> information I can find is for the firestar in which the
> formula for % C.G. is h x 100/64, h being resultant distance.
> In figuring the w & b for the firestar II Daryl Miller
> apparently used a divisor of 61. Which is correct?
> 3. The designation is experimental exhibition, what is
> necessary to change it to experimental light sport.
> 4. The plane has no brakes. I'm looking at small motorcycle
> disk brakes, any suggestions.
> 5. Could someone give me a description, measurements, and
> possibly plans for the hoop just behind the nosecone I've seen
> on several kolbs. Are they made of aluminum or steel.
> 6. My aileron is attached to the wing with a piano hinge. I
> read in an aviation monthly that an aileron seal was
> recommended. Do I need them, if so what do they look like, how
> do I make them, and how do I attach them.
> I appreciate any help and thank you in advance
> mojavjoe
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: help with newly purchased firestar II |
On 12/22/2013 2:56 PM, mojavjoe@comcast.net wrote:
> hi
> I recently purchased the firestar II resurrected in 2011 by Daryl
> Miller. I have a few issues I hope you can help me with.
> 1. I can't park the 2 bladed prop in the horizontal position and fold
> the wings. With the wings folded the three inch prop extension puts
> the bottom of the blade two inches below the top of the aileron tube.
> I've been on the web and found a few blogs from the 90's that
> described raising the front and/or back of a 503 but when I tried to
> go back I couldn't find then. I've brought up pictures of Kolbs and in
> some of them the Rotex's were raised to what appears to be two to
> three inches on standoffs above the engine mounts. I don't want to go
> to the expense of a three bladed prop and moving the prop will lower
> the roof of the trailer/hanger I'm building twenty inches.
> It would be helpful if you could post a couple of pics to get an
> idea of how the 503 is mounted . Could be in the motor mounts. I
> have a FS II with a 503 B-BOX built to plans. I have a 3 blade prop
> and 3inch extension and I could run as a 2 blade and still clear.
> Has to be something with engine install to me. Never heard of this
> problem before on the list .
> Jack Carillon " 94" FS II 503 DCDI B-box
> *
>
> *
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: help with newly purchased firestar II |
I have a firestar II with a 503, 2 blade prop and the prop rests on the
aileron tubes when the wings are folded. Not my favorite thing, but the
airplane is kept in a hangar without the wings folded, so it is not really
an issue with me.
On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Jack <pcarillonsr@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> On 12/22/2013 2:56 PM, mojavjoe@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> hi
>
> I recently purchased the firestar II resurrected in 2011 by Daryl Miller.
> I have a few issues I hope you can help me with.
>
> 1. I can't park the 2 bladed prop in the horizontal position and fold the
> wings. With the wings folded the three inch prop extension puts the bottom
> of the blade two inches below the top of the aileron tube. I've been on
> the web and found a few blogs from the 90's that described raising the
> front and/or back of a 503 but when I tried to go back I couldn't find
> then. I've brought up pictures of Kolbs and in some of them the Rotex'swere raised
to what appears to be two to three inches on standoffs above
> the engine mounts. I don't want to go to the expense of a three bladed prop
> and moving the prop will lower the roof of the trailer/hanger I'm building
> twenty inches.
>
> It would be helpful if you could post a couple of pics to get an idea of
> how the 503 is mounted . Could be in the motor mounts. I have a FS II
> with a 503 B-BOX built to plans. I have a 3 blade prop and 3inch
> extension and I could run as a 2 blade and still clear. Has to be
> something with engine install to me. Never heard of this problem before on
> the list .
> Jack Carillon " 94" FS II 503 DCDI B-box
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: help with newly purchased firestar II |
61 vs 64 Question:
This number represents the wing chord measurement including flaperon. Measure
yours. Mine was closer to 63. At this step in the calculations, you are merely
calculating the center of gravity distance as a percentage back from the leading
edge of the wing.
Do you have the Kolb plans and Builders Manual? Dont forget that weight measurements
are made with pilot in cockpit (kinda hard to do by yourself). There will
be a significant change in center of gravity point between pilots of different
weight.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416132#416132
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