---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/28/13: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:36 AM - Keeping warm (Ted Cowan) 2. 06:39 AM - Mark 3 582 engine mount needed (awcbs) 3. 06:56 AM - Re: Keeping warm (Thumper) 4. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (b young) 5. 10:28 AM - New thread title- kolb heaters, and survival (Larry Cottrell) 6. 10:51 AM - Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (lownslow) 7. 11:01 AM - Re: Mark 3 582 engine mount needed (Dennis Rowe) 8. 01:06 PM - Re: New thread title- kolb heaters, and survival (John Hauck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:26 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Keeping warm From: Ted Cowan Long ago when i was flying my delta wing i purchased a heli cold weather suit. Lots of zippers and stuff. Good enough for artic flying. Not bulky just really warm. I have outgrown it (got fatter) so if someone would be interested i would give them a good price. Just the ticket for open cockpit flying. Contact me off list. Itis army green and practically new. Fit me at 5'7" tall and around 175lbs. Ted cowan slingshot 912 zoom zoom Sent from my iPhone On Dec 28, 2013, at 2:01 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-12-27&Archive=Kolb > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-27&Archive=Kolb > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Kolb-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 12/27/13: 7 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 12:50 PM - Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (lownslow) > 2. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (Dennis Rowe) > 3. 03:07 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (Larry Cottrell) > 4. 03:23 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (kinne russ) > 5. 05:07 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (John Hauck) > 6. 07:47 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (Dennis Rowe) > 7. 09:47 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (Larry Cottrell) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:50:03 PM PST US > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage > From: "lownslow" > > > mind if I jump in here with a question? > > I'm curious about heater setups, since it came up in this thread. I have a Mk > III C with a Rotax 670 being installed and since I am in Colorado I wanted to > see if there is an effective way to pipe heat into the cockpit (it's fully enclosed) > without a lot of fuss and engineering. Would anyone that's done it share > your results and satisfaction with your setup? I'd appreciate it. I guess > from the few discussions I've had with other Kolb owners, I had ruled it out > as something that doesn't work well, so had resigned myself to wearing a warm > set of extreme sport coveralls and maybe not fly some days that are too cold but > would love to get educated from some of the others on this list who may have > enjoyed success in this realm. I'm a newbie here and have only had my Kolb > for 3 months. It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying > up in AK, he may also have some wisdom to share.... > > Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions! > > Mike > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416248#416248 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:54:03 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage > From: Dennis Rowe > > > Plumb a motorcycle radiator inside your cockpit with a 12 volt fan on it. > > Dennis "Skid" Rowe > Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > > >> On Dec 27, 2013, at 3:49 PM, "lownslow" wrote: >> >> >> mind if I jump in here with a question? >> >> I'm curious about heater setups, since it came up in this thread. I have a Mk > III C with a Rotax 670 being installed and since I am in Colorado I wanted to > see if there is an effective way to pipe heat into the cockpit (it's fully enclosed) > without a lot of fuss and engineering. Would anyone that's done it share > your results and satisfaction with your setup? I'd appreciate it. I guess > from the few discussions I've had with other Kolb owners, I had ruled it out > as something that doesn't work well, so had resigned myself to wearing a warm > set of extreme sport coveralls and maybe not fly some days that are too cold > but would love to get educated from some of the others on this list who may have > enjoyed success in this realm. I'm a newbie here and have only had my Kolb > for 3 months. It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying > up in AK, he may also have some wisdom to share.... >> >> Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions! >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416248#416248 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:07:18 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage > From: Larry Cottrell > > I'm not sure how cold is too cold? I decided that rather than try to > winterize my engine, I would just fly it every once and a while. Moisture > is not one of our problems here. I have an "electric vest" (Chili vest is > the brand, but there are many new items on the market now that are designed > for motor cycle gear, that weren't available when I bought my vest. There > is everything from pants to gloves, and at not that bad a price. All of > which either run off your plane battery or regular batteries.) > > Myself, I hate to be bundled up to where I can't move, so the vest works > great. I just wear the vest, plug it into a cigar lighter plug on the > plane, Wear a "wild rag" (Silk cowboy scarf), or a gaiter would do, a pair > of insulated bibs from Cabela's. I use a pair of neophreme bogs on my feet > and slip a rag wool stocking cap over my headset. I just finished an hour > and half flight checking out the Coyote populations and doing some touch > and goes in the pattern. I stayed quite warm except for my left wrist, > which had been in a draft where my enclosure is gaped. > > My enclosure wraps around the pilot's seat but is open at the back. So > basically all it does is keep the wind off me. The outside temps were at 41 > degrees when I landed. > > When I had the air cooled two strokes on the plane I had fashioned a heater > that would pipe in the air from the engine. Quite frankly the Chilli vest > made all that work unnecessary. If I were to fly for a longer period of > time, the first thing that would get cold would be my feet, but I can stand > an hour and half with no discomfort. > > I my opinion if you can keep the wind off you, dressing properly is a whole > lot easier than all the engineering you would have to do, and you would > still wear the same amount of clothes that I just described. You however > may disagree. > Larry > > > On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 1:49 PM, lownslow wrote: > >> >> mind if I jump in here with a question? >> >> I'm curious about heater setups, since it came up in this thread. I have >> a Mk III C with a Rotax 670 being installed and since I am in Colorado I >> wanted to see if there is an effective way to pipe heat into the cockpit >> (it's fully enclosed) without a lot of fuss and engineering. Would anyone >> that's done it share your results and satisfaction with your setup? I'd >> appreciate it. I guess from the few discussions I've had with other Kolb >> owners, I had ruled it out as something that doesn't work well, so had >> resigned myself to wearing a warm set of extreme sport coveralls and maybe >> not fly some days that are too cold but would love to get educated from >> some of the others on this list who may have enjoyed success in this realm. >> I'm a newbie here and have only had my Kolb for 3 months. It's just now >> dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK, he may also >> have some wisdom to share.... >> >> Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions! >> >> Mike >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416248#416248 >> >> > > > -- > *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending.* > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:23:36 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage > From: kinne russ > > > I'm sure John H will tell you about his Chili vest! -- elec. heated vests, gloves, > sox, cushions etc are all great. > > > On Dec 27, 2013, at 3:49 PM, lownslow wrote: > >> >> mind if I jump in here with a question? >> >> I'm curious about heater setups, since it came up in this thread. I have a Mk > III C with a Rotax 670 being installed and since I am in Colorado I wanted to > see if there is an effective way to pipe heat into the cockpit (it's fully enclosed) > without a lot of fuss and engineering. Would anyone that's done it share > your results and satisfaction with your setup? I'd appreciate it. I guess > from the few discussions I've had with other Kolb owners, I had ruled it out > as something that doesn't work well, so had resigned myself to wearing a warm > set of extreme sport coveralls and maybe not fly some days that are too cold > but would love to get educated from some of the others on this list who may have > enjoyed success in this realm. I'm a newbie here and have only had my Kolb > for 3 months. It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying > up in AK, he may also have some wisdom to share.... >> >> Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions! >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416248#416248 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:07:55 PM PST US > From: "John Hauck" > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage > > > > It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK, > he may also have some wisdom to share.... > > Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions! > > Mike > > > Hi Mike/Kolbers: > > I made 3.5 flights to Alaska. First flight was without heat of any kind > except what clothing I could put on my body to keep warm. > > After the first flight I discovered an electric vest made in England for > motorcycle endurance riders called a Chili Vest. 12vdc power with a digital > electronic thermostat that worked excellent. Powered right off the aircraft > battery. Needed minimum clothing and was able to stay comfortable in the > cockpit at freezing temps. > > Could have fabricated a hot water heater, but never liked the idea of > plumbing hot water into the cockpit. > > Some Kolbers have fabricated hot air heaters from the air cooled Rotax. > They'll pop up here and give you some info I am sure. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:47:47 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage > From: Dennis Rowe > > > I'm liking the clothing suggestions a lot better than my cockpit radiator idea, > like someone said, it's a crap pile of work to reengineer the cooling system > to that degree. > > Dennis "Skid" Rowe > Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > > >> On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:07 PM, "John Hauck" wrote: >> >> >> >> It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK, >> he may also have some wisdom to share.... >> >> Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions! >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> Hi Mike/Kolbers: >> >> I made 3.5 flights to Alaska. First flight was without heat of any kind >> except what clothing I could put on my body to keep warm. >> >> After the first flight I discovered an electric vest made in England for >> motorcycle endurance riders called a Chili Vest. 12vdc power with a digital >> electronic thermostat that worked excellent. Powered right off the aircraft >> battery. Needed minimum clothing and was able to stay comfortable in the >> cockpit at freezing temps. >> >> Could have fabricated a hot water heater, but never liked the idea of >> plumbing hot water into the cockpit. >> >> Some Kolbers have fabricated hot air heaters from the air cooled Rotax. >> They'll pop up here and give you some info I am sure. >> >> john h >> mkIII >> Titus, Alabama >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:47:36 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage > From: Larry Cottrell > > As I mentioned earlier, when I had a two stroke on my Firestar, I built a > cowling that captured the heat from the engine after it had made its way > through the shroud. I used scat tubing to put it in the cockpit over my > head. I still froze my feet, I still had to wear a coat, and I lost about > 4MPH by having the back of the wind screen covered. > > The "bog" or "Muck" boots are about 3 MM of neophreme, and warm enough for > a couple of hours exposure without losing the ability to "feel" the rudder > petals. That is just with regular socks. The vest keeps my core temps up, > and if I keep my hands out of the slip stream, caused by my poor > engineering of my enclosure, I don't have any problem keeping warm long > enough to get all the flying that I want. > > I do not consider 50 degrees to be cold enough to even hesitate when it > comes to flying. Today at 40 degrees I didn't even wear my insulated bib > overalls. As long as your core is warm, you will be able to enjoy your > flight. > Larry > > > On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 8:47 PM, Dennis Rowe wrote: > >> >> I'm liking the clothing suggestions a lot better than my cockpit radiator >> idea, like someone said, it's a crap pile of work to reengineer the cooling >> system to that degree. >> >> Dennis "Skid" Rowe >> Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA >> >> >>> On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:07 PM, "John Hauck" wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in >> AK, >>> he may also have some wisdom to share.... >>> >>> Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions! >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Mike/Kolbers: >>> >>> I made 3.5 flights to Alaska. First flight was without heat of any kind >>> except what clothing I could put on my body to keep warm. >>> >>> After the first flight I discovered an electric vest made in England for >>> motorcycle endurance riders called a Chili Vest. 12vdc power with a >> digital >>> electronic thermostat that worked excellent. Powered right off the >> aircraft >>> battery. Needed minimum clothing and was able to stay comfortable in the >>> cockpit at freezing temps. >>> >>> Could have fabricated a hot water heater, but never liked the idea of >>> plumbing hot water into the cockpit. >>> >>> Some Kolbers have fabricated hot air heaters from the air cooled Rotax. >>> They'll pop up here and give you some info I am sure. >>> >>> john h >>> mkIII >>> Titus, Alabama >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > -- > *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending.* > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:34 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Mark 3 582 engine mount needed From: "awcbs" Looking for a 582 engine mount for or a mark 3. Maybe someone has one laying around from an engine upgrade? Thanks Aj -------- AJ Waldor MK3C 503 Phantom 503 Rans S-9 Chaos 503 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416270#416270 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:15 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Keeping warm From: "Thumper" I used a small oil cooler with the SPAL fan that moves lots of air. Plenty of heat and simple to mount and only added 2# to the airplane. The small one 4x6 worked for me. Test here is weird but the 4x6 with fan. don't try those small computer fans, they doon't move near enough air unless you are extremely air tight cabin. This fan moves tons of air, that is the key. Just be sure to tap into the radiator hoses before the thermostat. If the 670 has built in Thermostat you could remove it and use the Thermo-Bob one. http://www.circletracksupply.com/northern-hurricane-oil-or-transmission-cooler-with-fan.html I have to throttle back the water flow to keep from being roasted out. Dennis -------- Dennis Long Oakland TN 2000 Aeroprakt A20 Vista Cruiser Previously Kolb Mark IIIC, 94 Firestar, 84 Ultrastar. 700+hours since 1/1/2009 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416271#416271 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2012_12_13_15_33_53_394_112.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:59 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage mike and others on classic, I cut the radiator hoses 3 inches ahead of the radiator, put in some tees and run some smaller hoses down to a heater core. I picked up the heater core from Napa, after looking through their book and finding one that had the connections where I thought would be convenient. I built a wire frame work on both sides of the core, one to mount a 12 volt computer fan, and the other side to mount a 2 inch duct to deliver the warm air to the nose cone area. with no insulation in the cabin area, and not being 100 % air tight,,, I am quite comfortable taking off in the 40 deg range with a small jacket. flying into or away from the sun will make a difference. when first installed, I took off in the late afternoon at 20 deg f.. after an hour, I was starting to think that I had some type of air bubble in the system keeping it from working. when I landed it was 10 deg, and when I opened the door, I soon realized it was working, it just could not keep up with the heat loss, and air movement at that temperature. I mounted the heater core in the very rear of the area behind the fuel tank. I did not want hot water further forward in the cabin area to prevent burns in an accident. plus keeping the heater hoses filled with water short, kept the weight down. boyd Y mkiii c utah >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: lownslow I'm curious about heater setups, since it came up in this thread. I have a Mk III C with a Rotax 670 being installed and since I am in Colorado I wanted to see if there is an effective way to pipe heat into the cockpit (it's fully enclosed) without a lot of fuss and engineering. Would anyone that's done it share your results and satisfaction with your setup? I'd appreciate it. I guess from the few discussions I've had with other Kolb owners, I had ruled it out as something that doesn't work well, so had resigned myself to wearing a warm set of extreme sport coveralls and maybe not fly some days that are too cold but would love to get educated from some of the others on this list who may have enjoyed success in this realm. I'm a newbie here and have only had my Kolb for 3 months. It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK, he may also have some wisdom to share.... Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions! Mike --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:15 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: New thread title- kolb heaters, and survival From: Larry Cottrell I have no problem with any way that one is able to keep warm while flying. There is one thought that I sometimes see ignored, and that is the ability to keep warm if for some reason you are forced down somewhere. Granted where I live and fly, it is a matter of life and death. With the exception of one neighbor, there is no one closer than 15 or 20 miles depending on which direction I fly. Part of my "survival kit" is proper clothing and good walking shoes, because that is the most likely method of survival for me. My first "off field landing" that I had to make here turned out a lot better than it could have, but it had very important lessons in it. No one had any idea of where I might be flying, I had no way to contact anyone, and I wasn't prepared for the walk out that I had to do. Luckily I didn't break anything, other than my middle finger, so I was able to walk the 2 miles or so to a State Hwy. However no one would stop for a dirt covered man, who was too proud to grovel for help. I walked the four miles to the only country store in the area. ( its now closed) All of course ended well, but my feet were blistered, but I made it back home before the wife called out the local gendarmes to find me. I now file a flight plan with the wife and stick to it, unless I can update her on the change. I also installed a base radio, use a "spot" and dress for the worst outcome. I have a first aid kit and any thing else that I can think of that would help. "Spare tire", Gorilla tape, toilet paper, (Sage makes lousy TP, and "monkey butt" is not conducive to walking. ) and a survival blanket. Now to the point, if you are going to have to take that stuff along, you might as well wear it. Granted most of you are not flying in such a risky area, but don't neglect the worst case scenario preparation. Larry -- *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:47 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage From: "lownslow" thanks all for your replies I love this list already--nice, helpful folks and I'm honored to be a part of it very helpful inputs from all and I'm grateful confirms my thoughts about trying the clothing route first thanks to John and others for the recommendation on the chili vest--sounds great and I will investigate this and the other recommendations thanks! Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416286#416286 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:01:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark 3 582 engine mount needed From: Dennis Rowe AJ, Dave Lewis has an extra one I'm going to use on my 670, you are welcome to borrow it to trace it and I may even have some 1/4" plate laying around. Give me a call. Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > On Dec 28, 2013, at 9:39 AM, "awcbs" wrote: > > > Looking for a 582 engine mount for or a mark 3. > Maybe someone has one laying around from an engine upgrade? > Thanks > Aj > > -------- > AJ Waldor > MK3C 503 > Phantom 503 > Rans S-9 Chaos 503 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416270#416270 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:17 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: New thread title- kolb heaters, and survival Now to the point, if you are going to have to take that stuff along, you might as well wear it. Granted most of you are not flying in such a risky area, but don't neglect the worst case scenario preparation. Larry When I fly in Larry's AO, and places like it, I usually have a sleeping bag and tent, plus rations and plenty water, plus a few other things to survive. I do the same thing when I am riding my ATV out West in sparsely populated areas. I can last a long time if I can make a fire, get in out of the cold, have water and some chow. I carry a PLB (personal locator beacon) which gives me a direct connection to SARSAT. If I ever get into a situation where this old fart thinks his personal safety or life is threatened, I won't hesitate to use it. So far I have never had to use one. All my crashes and airplane mechanical of aviating problems have been somewhere where I found help or was able to correct the problem myself, and continue on my way. Last flight I made West to the Rock House I ended up double tied down in a friendly ranchers yard next to a cedar break, put down on a muddy dirt road by a tremendous thunder storm in middle Kansas. Survived that one while visiting with the rancher and his wife in their home, which was without electricity after a couple minutes into the worst of the storm. There are some genuinely nice folks in this world, especially rural folks in sparsely populated areas. Photo attached file. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama - Raining all day and forecast to rain all night at hauck's holler. Plus it is cold and miserable. Nice inside the old lake house though. Got the fireplace roaring and plenty wood for a few more days before time to find and cut some more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.