---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/26/14: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:26 AM - Re: problem firestar (dany88) 2. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: problem firestar (b young) 3. 08:35 AM - Re: Firefly covering photos (Ducati SS) 4. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: problem firestar (Jack B. Hart) 5. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: Firefly covering photos (Stuart Harner) 6. 05:07 PM - Re: Re: Firefly covering photos (Herb) 7. 05:28 PM - Re: Re: Firefly covering photos (John Hauck) 8. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: Firefly covering photos (kinne russ) 9. 05:56 PM - Re: Re: Kolb MK lll (Richard Girard) 10. 06:16 PM - Nico sleeves and proper cable construction (Richard Girard) 11. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: Firefly covering photos (Stuart Harner) 12. 06:28 PM - Subject headings that don't reflect the topic (Richard Girard) 13. 06:44 PM - Re: Firefly covering photos (Richard Girard) 14. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: Firefly covering photos (John Hauck) 15. 07:19 PM - Re: Firefly covering photos (Ducati SS) 16. 07:26 PM - Re: Re: Firefly covering photos (Dennis Rowe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:45 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: problem firestar From: "dany88" Here are two videos I made ... the first show faulty movement the second shows that the structure and ok. So according to me and only to firmly attach the bolts of the structure, perhaps through the years were slightly loose. since I disassembled everything, replace the main bolt with a self-locking so I'm sure you do not loose any more. What do you think? http://youtu.be/MHIv3fZPi1o http://youtu.be/jMeoG_fxIXA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417607#417607 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:09 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: problem firestar dany88 if the movement is between the rear wing attach fitting and the tube it goes into, in the wing... the first thing I would is to prime the bare metal... then apply enough coats of paint till is is a tight fit. then I would take a small bit of silicone rubber and with a stick or q tip , put a thin film on the inside of the wing tube, and also on the outside of the steel fitting, slide the steel fitting in and bolt in place. on the swivel fitting that fits on the airframe. also prime and paint, then install a washer and castle nut with a cotter pin. it should be tight enough so there is no excess movement, but loose enough to allow it to turn when you fold the wing. check the cotter pin every time you fly. the drag strut inside the wing should be solid with no movement. boyd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "dany88" Here are two videos I made ... the first show faulty movement the second shows that the structure and ok. So according to me and only to firmly attach the bolts of the structure, --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:14 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos From: "Ducati SS" Stuart, the following may help when you cover the wings. One of the reasons I chose to build the Firefly is the strong airframe, however as well designed as it is the uncovered ribs aft of the main spar are a bit flexible. You may find they are bowed and not perfectly parallel , I x braced them using rib stitch cord and that got them very close. After covering the wing and marking reference lines I found the rib apex was still slightly off. I bought several lengths of square hardwood at Lowes about 1/2" and 2 or 3 medium plastic spring clamps with plastic or rubber jaws. Made a nylon hook on the end, reached thru the root end of the wing, hooked the rib and pushed or pulled it into position and then clamped it to the 4130 structure of the root rib. Riveted that rib and then moved on to the next. Ended up with nice straight ribs and rivet lines. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417613#417613 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:01 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: problem firestar I had a similar problem with excessive clearances in the swivel joints on my FireFly. You can see how I fixed it at: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly128.html To remove the excessive clearance between the part in the wing and the socket, I would coat inside of the socket and the outside of the swivel end with J-B Weld. Then slide it into place and line up the bolt hole and put the bolt into place. J-B Weld is an iron particle filled epoxy that is very strong. When it sets up there should be no play between the swivel end and the socket. Information about J-B Weld can be found at: http://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-weld/ Jack B Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ......................................................................................... At 03:26 AM 1/26/2014 -0800, you wrote: > >Here are two videos I made ... the first show faulty movement the second shows that the structure and ok. So according to me and only to firmly attach the bolts of the structure, perhaps through the years were slightly loose. since I disassembled everything, replace the main bolt with a self-locking so I'm sure you do not loose any more. >What do you think? > >http://youtu.be/MHIv3fZPi1o > >http://youtu.be/jMeoG_fxIXA > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:51 PM PST US From: "Stuart Harner" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos Well now that is another very helpful hint. Thank you for posting it. I will be sure and look this over real well before I do my covering. I had wondered about the X-bracing in the wings. I remembered doing this on the Chief, but I think we tacked it down to each rib so they would not move. The ribs were wood and the fabric was not glued to the ribs. We used rib stitching that duplicated the original configuration. I noticed in the Poly Fiber manual it says to not tie or fasten the X-bracing to the rib so that the rib was free to move, but it also states the purpose was to keep the rib in place. Well, which is it? When I think of X-bracing, I think of floor joist or side walls of a hangar. The purpose is to keep things from "racking" and getting out of alignment. I would think the same applies to ribs, so wouldn't you want the bracing attached to each rib to prevent movement? My guess is the bracing would be halfway between the main and rear spars? Any and all input from the list about this is most appreciated. Thanks again, Stuart -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ducati SS Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:35 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos Stuart, the following may help when you cover the wings. One of the reasons I chose to build the Firefly is the strong airframe, however as well designed as it is the uncovered ribs aft of the main spar are a bit flexible. You may find they are bowed and not perfectly parallel , I x braced them using rib stitch cord and that got them very close. After covering the wing and marking reference lines I found the rib apex was still slightly off. I bought several lengths of square hardwood at Lowes about 1/2" and 2 or 3 medium plastic spring clamps with plastic or rubber jaws. Made a nylon hook on the end, reached thru the root end of the wing, hooked the rib and pushed or pulled it into position and then clamped it to the 4130 structure of the root rib. Riveted that rib and then moved on to the next. Ended up with nice straight ribs and rivet lines. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417613#417613 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:24 PM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos There are some good you tube vids showing Bryan Milburn building a Kolb wing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVE6sNXwgMc Herb On 01/26/2014 06:52 PM, Stuart Harner wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVE6sNXwgMc > > Well now that is another very helpful hint. Thank you for posting it. > > I will be sure and look this over real well before I do my covering. > > I had wondered about the X-bracing in the wings. I remembered doing this on > the Chief, but I think we tacked it down to each rib so they would not move. > The ribs were wood and the fabric was not glued to the ribs. We used rib > stitching that duplicated the original configuration. > > I noticed in the Poly Fiber manual it says to not tie or fasten the > X-bracing to the rib so that the rib was free to move, but it also states > the purpose was to keep the rib in place. Well, which is it? When I think > of X-bracing, I think of floor joist or side walls of a hangar. The purpose > is to keep things from "racking" and getting out of alignment. I would > think the same applies to ribs, so wouldn't you want the bracing attached to > each rib to prevent movement? > > My guess is the bracing would be halfway between the main and rear spars? > > Any and all input from the list about this is most appreciated. > > Thanks again, > > Stuart > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ducati SS > Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:35 AM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos > > > Stuart, the following may help when you cover the wings. > > One of the reasons I chose to build the Firefly is the strong airframe, > however as well designed as it is the uncovered ribs aft of the main spar > are a bit flexible. You may find they are bowed and not perfectly parallel > , I x braced them using rib stitch cord and that got them very close. After > covering the wing and marking reference lines I found the rib apex was still > slightly off. I bought several lengths of square hardwood at Lowes about > 1/2" and 2 or 3 medium plastic spring clamps with plastic or rubber jaws. > Made a nylon hook on the end, reached thru the root end of the wing, hooked > the rib and pushed or pulled it into position and then clamped it to the > 4130 structure of the root rib. Riveted that rib and then moved on to the > next. Ended up with nice straight ribs and rivet lines. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417613#417613 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:18 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos Kolbers: X-bracing is not required to keep the ribs in column. That is one of the jobs of the fabric covering. Once the fabric has been processed and riveted, the ribs will be secure and not move. We have been building Kolbs like this for over 30 years. The "normal" procedure works well. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Harner Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:53 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos Well now that is another very helpful hint. Thank you for posting it. I will be sure and look this over real well before I do my covering. I had wondered about the X-bracing in the wings. I remembered doing this on the Chief, but I think we tacked it down to each rib so they would not move. The ribs were wood and the fabric was not glued to the ribs. We used rib stitching that duplicated the original configuration. I noticed in the Poly Fiber manual it says to not tie or fasten the X-bracing to the rib so that the rib was free to move, but it also states the purpose was to keep the rib in place. Well, which is it? When I think of X-bracing, I think of floor joist or side walls of a hangar. The purpose is to keep things from "racking" and getting out of alignment. I would think the same applies to ribs, so wouldn't you want the bracing attached to each rib to prevent movement? My guess is the bracing would be halfway between the main and rear spars? Any and all input from the list about this is most appreciated. Thanks again, Stuart -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ducati SS Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:35 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos Stuart, the following may help when you cover the wings. One of the reasons I chose to build the Firefly is the strong airframe, however as well designed as it is the uncovered ribs aft of the main spar are a bit flexible. You may find they are bowed and not perfectly parallel , I x braced them using rib stitch cord and that got them very close. After covering the wing and marking reference lines I found the rib apex was still slightly off. I bought several lengths of square hardwood at Lowes about 1/2" and 2 or 3 medium plastic spring clamps with plastic or rubber jaws. Made a nylon hook on the end, reached thru the root end of the wing, hooked the rib and pushed or pulled it into position and then clamped it to the 4130 structure of the root rib. Riveted that rib and then moved on to the next. Ended up with nice straight ribs and rivet lines. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417613#417613 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos From: kinne russ Stuart IMHO good thinking on your part. I'm rebuilding an Xrtra wing and saw that there was no X-bracing. It obviously isn't needed on that wing. The Kolb crew knows what they are doing and what's best for a Kolb aircraft. I don't plan to do anything different. Good luck, Russ K On Jan 26, 2014, at 7:52 PM, Stuart Harner wrote: > > Well now that is another very helpful hint. Thank you for posting it. > > I will be sure and look this over real well before I do my covering. > > I had wondered about the X-bracing in the wings. I remembered doing this on > the Chief, but I think we tacked it down to each rib so they would not move. > The ribs were wood and the fabric was not glued to the ribs. We used rib > stitching that duplicated the original configuration. > > I noticed in the Poly Fiber manual it says to not tie or fasten the > X-bracing to the rib so that the rib was free to move, but it also states > the purpose was to keep the rib in place. Well, which is it? When I think > of X-bracing, I think of floor joist or side walls of a hangar. The purpose > is to keep things from "racking" and getting out of alignment. I would > think the same applies to ribs, so wouldn't you want the bracing attached to > each rib to prevent movement? > > My guess is the bracing would be halfway between the main and rear spars? > > Any and all input from the list about this is most appreciated. > > Thanks again, > > Stuart > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ducati SS > Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:35 AM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos > > > Stuart, the following may help when you cover the wings. > > One of the reasons I chose to build the Firefly is the strong airframe, > however as well designed as it is the uncovered ribs aft of the main spar > are a bit flexible. You may find they are bowed and not perfectly parallel > , I x braced them using rib stitch cord and that got them very close. After > covering the wing and marking reference lines I found the rib apex was still > slightly off. I bought several lengths of square hardwood at Lowes about > 1/2" and 2 or 3 medium plastic spring clamps with plastic or rubber jaws. > Made a nylon hook on the end, reached thru the root end of the wing, hooked > the rib and pushed or pulled it into position and then clamped it to the > 4130 structure of the root rib. Riveted that rib and then moved on to the > next. Ended up with nice straight ribs and rivet lines. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417613#417613 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb MK lll From: Richard Girard Daniele, Congratulations, I hope you have many safe and happy hours flying your new Firestar. Looking forward to seeing pictures and videos from Italy. Rick Girard do not archive On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 11:44 AM, dany88 wrote: > > Here are some pictures of my kolb firestar ... I'm happy :) > Yesterday brought home. > In the coming days I will show more photos > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417478#417478 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/cel_4_016_202.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/cel_4_018_117.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/cel_4_014_444.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/cel_4_012_160.jpg > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:41 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Nico sleeves and proper cable construction From: Richard Girard Stuart, If the second Nico swage is causing problems, look up cable construction in Advisory Circuar 43-13 1B & 2A, Chapter 7 Section 8, page 7-32. http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/list/AC%2043.13-1B/$FILE/Chapter%2007.pdf The second sleeve is NOT required to make a cable that is good to the rated strength of the cable. Just a thought, Rick Girard -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:41 PM PST US From: "Stuart Harner" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos Thanks Russ, and John H, It did not make much sense about X-bracing that lets the rib move (not tied as per Poly Fiber manual) and then fasten the rib to the fabric to make it stay in place. Careful rib alignment in. X-bracing out. I am still thinking about rivets vs. stitching, but am leaning towards stitching (thanks for the videos guys) since I already know how to do it and I don't like drilling holes. Planning to order my supplies tonight. I am sure there will be more questions along the way. Thanks again, Stuart -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kinne russ Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos Stuart IMHO good thinking on your part. I'm rebuilding an Xrtra wing and saw that there was no X-bracing. It obviously isn't needed on that wing. The Kolb crew knows what they are doing and what's best for a Kolb aircraft. I don't plan to do anything different. Good luck, Russ K On Jan 26, 2014, at 7:52 PM, Stuart Harner wrote: > --> > > Well now that is another very helpful hint. Thank you for posting it. > > I will be sure and look this over real well before I do my covering. > > I had wondered about the X-bracing in the wings. I remembered doing > this on the Chief, but I think we tacked it down to each rib so they would not move. > The ribs were wood and the fabric was not glued to the ribs. We used > rib stitching that duplicated the original configuration. > > I noticed in the Poly Fiber manual it says to not tie or fasten the > X-bracing to the rib so that the rib was free to move, but it also > states the purpose was to keep the rib in place. Well, which is it? > When I think of X-bracing, I think of floor joist or side walls of a > hangar. The purpose is to keep things from "racking" and getting out > of alignment. I would think the same applies to ribs, so wouldn't you > want the bracing attached to each rib to prevent movement? > > My guess is the bracing would be halfway between the main and rear spars? > > Any and all input from the list about this is most appreciated. > > Thanks again, > > Stuart > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ducati SS > Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:35 AM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos > > --> > > Stuart, the following may help when you cover the wings. > > One of the reasons I chose to build the Firefly is the strong > airframe, however as well designed as it is the uncovered ribs aft of > the main spar are a bit flexible. You may find they are bowed and not > perfectly parallel , I x braced them using rib stitch cord and that > got them very close. After covering the wing and marking reference > lines I found the rib apex was still slightly off. I bought several > lengths of square hardwood at Lowes about 1/2" and 2 or 3 medium plastic spring clamps with plastic or rubber jaws. > Made a nylon hook on the end, reached thru the root end of the wing, > hooked the rib and pushed or pulled it into position and then clamped > it to the > 4130 structure of the root rib. Riveted that rib and then moved on to > the next. Ended up with nice straight ribs and rivet lines. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417613#417613 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:56 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Subject headings that don't reflect the topic From: Richard Girard As long as we're discussing problems with emails, how about this one. The Kolb Mk III thread started as one requesting info about the Mk III, now we're discussing proper cable construction. It's no wonder the archives are almost worthless. And how about DO NOT ARCHIVE. I do not claim to be perfect on this one, but I try to honor Matt's request that we do not plug up his servers with junk. It's great that you want to add an Atta Boy to the conversation but putting these three little words after your signature is not too much to ask, IMHO. Rick Girard do not archive -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly covering photos From: Richard Girard Stuart, One, to reach the full strength of the fabric, it must be shrunk at 350 degrees. There are exceptions to this that are covered in the Poly Fiber Manual. All overlaps, tape requirements, everything is in the Manual. If you want to save weight there are three colors of Poly Tone that have the silver and require no Poly Spray. From memory, these are Nevada Silver, Rancho Silver, and Piper Trainer Blue. This is covered in Appendix A of the Manual along with reasons to NOT do as you're considering and skipping the Poly Spray coats. Rick Girard do not archive On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 7:45 PM, Stuart Harner wrote: > > Thanks so much! They are saved to my ready reference file. > > A tip of the hat to you on your craftsmanship! > > I do however still have a couple of questions. > > On the fuselage fabric, it would appear that you wrapped the upper longeron > with the pinked edge tape, but I cannot tell how far around the tube you > wrapped the fabric. I would think about half way around would provide > enough base for poly tac on that small of a surface. > > I do have a little experience with Dacron fabric. My Dad and I recovered > an > Aeronca Chief about 30 years ago and I helped a friend cover his Fisher > Classic about 20 years ago. I understand the problem of knowing how tight > to make the raw fabric, especially on these light weight structures, it can > be really easy to over shrink and damage something. > > The Kolb manual suggested using a bunch of 5# weights suspended around the > perimeter to provide the tension. I have not tried that yet, but suspect > it > may be too tight for the 1.7 oz fabric, which is all I can find these days. > > I think a little less than snug should be about right. I have some scraps > of fabric (2.7 oz. I think) and some expired poly tac that I am going to > play with while calibrating my iron. This well get me used to the process > again, and give me test panels to use when setting up my spray gun. All it > is going to cost is some extra time, which will be well spent if it helps > keep me from doing something on the plane over again. > > I found your comments about the pigments interesting and have a question > about that as well. > > Was the problem with getting the white to cover the silver or the yellow to > cover the white? > > I ask because I can tell you used un-tinted poly brush, but understand that > light colors don't cover dark very well, and poly spray is fairly dark. > > I plan on using yellow, red and black. The yellow will be the "base" color > and the red and black with be fairly large areas of contrast. My plan is > to > use two coats of un-tinted poly brush, one brushed, one sprayed, each coat > consisting of two cross coats. > > Then to skip the poly spray and just add uv blocker to the poly tone. I > don't think I will do the entire structure in yellow as I first planned. I > am now thinking of masking off and painting each color separately over the > poly brush which should still be basically white from the fabric > underneath. > > I do this for two reasons. One, I am cheap, and two, any area with > contrast > color will mean additional coats to that area, adding weight. > > I am going to try my best to beat the 254# if I can. > > Thanks for your photos and your input. > > Stuart > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ducati SS > Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 12:45 PM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly covering photos > > > Stuart, here are the close up photos you requested. > > I used the Poly Fiber system, it truly is a very simple system and the > instruction book is quite good. The only part I had any trouble with was > estimating the initial application tension, it is somewhat subjective > depending on the size of the item being covered. 1 coat poly brush > brushed, > 1coat poly brush sprayed, 3 coats silver and multiple color coats. If I > were > to do it over I would not paint a lightweight plane white. I was used to > auto paints and was quite surprised at how little coverage the pigments in > the Poly Tone provide. The cage and boom are powder coated and most other > parts such as nose cone, flaperons, tail ring and such are single stage > Croma One auto urethane. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417577#417577 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/20140125_124446_resized_212.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/20140125_125707_resized_180.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/20140125_124949_resized_181.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/20140125_124840_resized_642.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/20140125_124800_resized_959.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/20140125_124700_resized_158.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/20140125_124627_resized_929.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/20140125_124544_resized_108.jpg > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:46 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos Kolbers: Rib stitching works best on flat wooden rib caps. Flat metal rib caps normally use screws. My foggy memory is trying to tell me there are also metal clips for flat metal ribs, but wouldn't want to bet on it. Round rib tubes work best with fabric rivets. There is minimal contact surface between the apex of the tube wall and the fabric/reinforcement tape. When pulling a rib stitch tight on a 5/16" tube, the cord tends to pull the fabric down, causing a dimpled effect. Rib stitching is not as durable in the area of prop drumming as fabric rivets. A local Kolb Slingshot had some problems with in flight vibration and a loud drumming sound. During an in flight inspection the fabric in the area of the top right inboard area of the right wing was ballooning. On the ground it was discovered that the rib stitching had pulled loose. Repairs were made with fabric rivets. No more problem. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama I am still thinking about rivets vs. stitching, but am leaning towards stitching (thanks for the videos guys) since I already know how to do it and I don't like drilling holes. Stuart ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:37 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos From: "Ducati SS" Seems to be a bit of misunderstanding about my intent for the rib stitching cord. It had nothing to do with an attempt at strengthening, as john points out the fabric riveting stabilizes the rib, but the rib has to be moved into the proper position. If the rib is bowed some means of holding it straight has to be used before melting the holes and riveting. I was only passing along the two steps employed to accomplish this. In fact the cord could be cut away after riveting. Probably many a kolb has had the fabric riveted in what ever position the rib was in with no ill effects, I just wanted perfectly straight rivet lines. Many right ways to accomplish most tasks, just thought this might save some time. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417647#417647 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly covering photos From: Dennis Rowe Right you are about pretty much everything in this post John. Including the use of steel clips instead of rib stitching on some old birds.The 1948 Cessna 170 rag wing we are restoring used steel clips instead of rib stitching, we are canning using them when we recover the wings due to the fact they can rust and wear the holes in the ribs out due to vibration. In their place we are using an STC that utilizes, "drum roll please" aluminum fabric pop rivets just like Kolb uses. Definitely better on the round tube of a Kolb rib. Dennis "Skid" Rowe Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA Do not archive > On Jan 26, 2014, at 9:55 PM, "John Hauck" wrote: > > > Kolbers: > > Rib stitching works best on flat wooden rib caps. Flat metal rib caps > normally use screws. My foggy memory is trying to tell me there are also > metal clips for flat metal ribs, but wouldn't want to bet on it. Round rib > tubes work best with fabric rivets. There is minimal contact surface > between the apex of the tube wall and the fabric/reinforcement tape. When > pulling a rib stitch tight on a 5/16" tube, the cord tends to pull the > fabric down, causing a dimpled effect. > > Rib stitching is not as durable in the area of prop drumming as fabric > rivets. A local Kolb Slingshot had some problems with in flight vibration > and a loud drumming sound. During an in flight inspection the fabric in the > area of the top right inboard area of the right wing was ballooning. On the > ground it was discovered that the rib stitching had pulled loose. Repairs > were made with fabric rivets. No more problem. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > > > I am still thinking about rivets vs. stitching, but am leaning towards > stitching (thanks for the videos guys) since I already know how to do it and > I don't like drilling holes. > > > > Stuart > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.