Today's Message Index:
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1. 07:50 AM - Re: For Sale Ultrastar with trailer, $5500 (Mcabbage)
2. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Drag Reduction Paradox (Jack B. Hart)
3. 09:40 AM - Re: Re: For Sale Ultrastar with trailer, $5500 (Dana Hague)
4. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: Drag Reduction Paradox (John Hauck)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: For Sale Ultrastar with trailer, $5500 |
Hi Dana
Mike Cabbage here hope all is well with Stan and yourself! Any idea what your
next aerial adventure will be? Im still flying ppg but I bought a Kolb firestar
2 last fall and hope to get that in the air next summer.
good luck selling your plane.
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420546#420546
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Drag Reduction Paradox |
John,
There are other benefits from vortex generators other than increased low
speed lift performance. The one benefit that may be of help to you is now
they seem to tame or remove high speed wing twitchness and improve aileron
effectiveness.
With VGs you may be able to move your "sweet spot" to a higher speed and an
increased comfort level.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
..........................................
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Wonder how that relates to a Kolb? and what is "at speed" for a Kolb?
Top speed in a Kolb in normally never comfortable. They were not designed for
speed.
I have a normal "sweet spot" cruise speed, and a "get to the next way point a little
quicker" cruise speed.
In my MKIII, anything over 90 mph starts to get uncomfortable and is wasting a
lot of fuel. Normal cruise, 5,000 rpm, 912ULS, is 80 to 85. High cruise, 5,200
rpm 912ULS, is 85 to 90, depended on I am loaded.
If your Kolb is getting a speed boost with VGs, I am happy for you.
john h
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: For Sale Ultrastar with trailer, $5500 |
Hi Mike,
If I sell the Ultrastar I'm hoping to buy a Fisher 404 biplane that a
friend of mine has but has never flown. I still have the ppgs, but haven't
flown them since I got the Ultrastar, both need some work... hoping to get
one of those flying this year as well.
Dana
Do not archive
At 10:50 AM 3/18/2014, you wrote:
>
>Hi Dana
>Mike Cabbage here hope all is well with Stan and yourself! Any idea what
>your next aerial adventure will be? Im still flying ppg but I bought a
>Kolb firestar 2 last fall and hope to get that in the air next summer.
>good luck selling your plane.
>Mike
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420546#420546
>
>
--
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt
he proposes to pay off with your money.
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Drag Reduction Paradox |
Jack H/Kolbers:
Thanks for that information.
I don't really care to land any slower than I do without VGs, nor do I
believe any improvement in cruise speed would be enough to go to the expense
and effort to mount VGs, nor the inconvenience of having to work around them
once mounted. I have hard enough time getting the MKIII washed and cleaned
now without having to deal with all those little things sticking up on the
wing and other places.
As far as "taming and removing high speed wing twitchiness and improving
aileron effectiveness", I have never flown a Kolb that had those particular
problems.
I believe one of the primary problems with higher cruise and top speed on
Kolb aircraft, other than the Ultrastar which used a different engine mount
system, is the engineering of the Lord Mount engine mount system. I have
shared this before and will share this with you again. Some 27 years ago I
did some experimenting with my original Kolb Firestar, quite by accident.
Cannot remember why I had the Firestar tied down or why I was doing the
engine run ups, but during this exercise I discovered how much the engine
was raised in the rear and canted down and to the left, I believe, as the
RPM was increased right up to full throttle. Up to a certain point all was
well, then the automatic divergence of the thrust line started eating up
most of the thrust being produced by the engine. The Lord mount density was
whatever was being shipped with the original Firestar kits way back then.
During my next test flight, at about 65 or 70 mph, I can't remember now, I
hit a brick wall. The Firestar would fly no faster on this flight, although
it had pegged 85 mph, WOT straight and level flight on previous flights. I
was a little upset with my airplane and reduced power slowly. As I did, the
aircraft started accelerating. As it accelerated, at this lower than WOT
power setting, I slowly increased power and the Firestar continued to
increase airspeed. To remedy this problem I got on the horn and talked to
Little Mike at old Kolb Aircraft. Asked him to find the hardest Lord Mounts
available and told him why I wanted them. Those hard Lord mounts fixed my
problem. My MKIII has always had the hardest Lord mounts, but with 80 and
100 hp engines, that much thrust still kicks the thrust line off center.
Once the Kolb gets to a certain amount of drag, the more power applied, the
more the thrust line is diverted from inline with the airframe. I believe
that is why I can fly to 88 mph at 5,200 rpm, but increased power to 5,500
rpm only pushes the MKIII to 95 mph. Of course there are other factors
involved, but the offset thrust line is one of the major problems.
If I want to go faster, I need an airplane built for speed. If I want to
have a fun airplane that I can also make some incredibly long, exciting
flights, I'll stick with an 80 mph cruise and my MKIII.
The above is my opinion only, based on personal experience building,
breaking, and flying Kolb aircraft for the past 30 years.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
There are other benefits from vortex generators other than increased low
speed lift performance. The one benefit that may be of help to you is now
they seem to tame or remove high speed wing twitchness and improve aileron
effectiveness.
With VGs you may be able to move your "sweet spot" to a higher speed and an
increased comfort level.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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