---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/19/14: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:56 AM - Re: Re: Drag Reduction Paradox (Gary Aman) 2. 05:56 AM - Re: Re: Drag Reduction Paradox/VGs (John Hauck) 3. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: Drag Reduction Paradox/VGs (Richard Girard) 4. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: Drag Reduction Paradox/VGs (John Hauck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Drag Reduction Paradox From: Gary Aman The dramatic difference in all aspects of flight below 40 mph have convinced me of the VG's worth on the MK -3C. You only have to fly it with & without to see it. G. Aman MK3C jabiru 800+hrs Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 18, 2014, at 12:13 PM, "Jack B. Hart" wrote: > > > John, > > There are other benefits from vortex generators other than increased low > speed lift performance. The one benefit that may be of help to you is now > they seem to tame or remove high speed wing twitchness and improve aileron > effectiveness. > > With VGs you may be able to move your "sweet spot" to a higher speed and an > increased comfort level. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > > .......................................... > > From: "John Hauck" > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 19:20:19 -0500 > > Wonder how that relates to a Kolb? and what is "at speed" for a Kolb? > > Top speed in a Kolb in normally never comfortable. They were not designed for speed. > > > I have a normal "sweet spot" cruise speed, and a "get to the next way point a little quicker" cruise speed. > > In my MKIII, anything over 90 mph starts to get uncomfortable and is wasting a lot of fuel. Normal cruise, 5,000 rpm, 912ULS, is 80 to 85. High cruise, 5,200 rpm 912ULS, is 85 to 90, depended on I am loaded. > > If your Kolb is getting a speed boost with VGs, I am happy for you. > > john h > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:12 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Drag Reduction Paradox/VGs There are quite a few different models of VGs on the market, as well as VGs fabricated by the aircraft builder/owner/flyer. How does one decide which style VG is best for their particular Kolb? How about placement, angle and distance back from the leading edge of the wing to get the most out of them? Is there hard evidence VGs are enhancing performance as much as folks say they do? One of the VG manufacturers and marketers shared with me the following, "The only reason I have them on my Kolb is because I sell them. Wouldn't look good if I didn't." I know they work because I have flown a Kolb several times with VGs installed. I know they enhance landing performance, but have no idea if they increase cruise and top airspeed. Still satisfied with the performance of my MKIII, low, cruise, and top speed (top speed really doesn't make any difference to me). If I ever get to the point I need VGs, I'll be standing in line to buy the best VGs available for my MKIII. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama The dramatic difference in all aspects of flight below 40 mph have convinced me of the VG's worth on the MK -3C. You only have to fly it with & without to see it. G. Aman MK3C jabiru 800+hrs ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Drag Reduction Paradox/VGs From: Richard Girard Two of my neighbors partnered up to build two Legal Eagles over the winter. Pat built wings, Tim built fuselages. At first both had VG's. Tim took his off and says he gained 5 mph. Pat is still working engine issues with the half VW but as soon as those are solved it will be a good time to look at nearly identical aircraft with and without VG's. Will report back when I know more. Rick Girard do not archive On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:53 AM, John Hauck wrote: > > There are quite a few different models of VGs on the market, as well as VGs > fabricated by the aircraft builder/owner/flyer. How does one decide which > style VG is best for their particular Kolb? > > How about placement, angle and distance back from the leading edge of the > wing to get the most out of them? > > Is there hard evidence VGs are enhancing performance as much as folks say > they do? > > One of the VG manufacturers and marketers shared with me the following, > "The > only reason I have them on my Kolb is because I sell them. Wouldn't look > good if I didn't." I know they work because I have flown a Kolb several > times with VGs installed. I know they enhance landing performance, but > have > no idea if they increase cruise and top airspeed. > > Still satisfied with the performance of my MKIII, low, cruise, and top > speed > (top speed really doesn't make any difference to me). If I ever get to the > point I need VGs, I'll be standing in line to buy the best VGs available > for > my MKIII. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > The dramatic difference in all aspects of flight below 40 mph have > convinced > me of the VG's worth on the MK -3C. You only have to fly it with & without > to see it. > > > G. Aman MK3C jabiru 800+hrs > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:11 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Drag Reduction Paradox/VGs That would be a good comparison. Are both aircraft 1/2 VW powered? john h mkIII Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:29 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Drag Reduction Paradox/VGs Two of my neighbors partnered up to build two Legal Eagles over the winter. Pat built wings, Tim built fuselages. At first both had VG's. Tim took his off and says he gained 5 mph. Pat is still working engine issues with the half VW but as soon as those are solved it will be a good time to look at nearly identical aircraft with and without VG's. Will report back when I know more. Rick Girard do not archive On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:53 AM, John Hauck wrote: There are quite a few different models of VGs on the market, as well as VGs fabricated by the aircraft builder/owner/flyer. How does one decide which style VG is best for their particular Kolb? How about placement, angle and distance back from the leading edge of the wing to get the most out of them? Is there hard evidence VGs are enhancing performance as much as folks say they do? One of the VG manufacturers and marketers shared with me the following, "The only reason I have them on my Kolb is because I sell them. Wouldn't look good if I didn't." I know they work because I have flown a Kolb several times with VGs installed. I know they enhance landing performance, but have no idea if they increase cruise and top airspeed. Still satisfied with the performance of my MKIII, low, cruise, and top speed (top speed really doesn't make any difference to me). If I ever get to the point I need VGs, I'll be standing in line to buy the best VGs available for my MKIII. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama The dramatic difference in all aspects of flight below 40 mph have convinced me of the VG's worth on the MK -3C. You only have to fly it with & without to see it. G. 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