Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:39 AM - Uncoordinated flight help! (Adam Canterbury)
2. 09:01 AM - Re: Uncoordinated flight help! (b young)
3. 09:07 AM - Re: Uncoordinated flight help! (Adam Canterbury)
4. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: Uncoordinated flight help! (Frank Goodnight)
5. 09:26 AM - Need Helmet/Headset Recommendation (Adam Canterbury)
6. 09:48 AM - Re: Need Helmet/Headset Recommendation (Rick Neilsen)
7. 09:50 AM - Re: Uncoordinated flight help! (Pat Ladd)
8. 10:22 AM - Re: Need Helmet/Headset Recommendation (Larry Cottrell)
9. 10:30 AM - Re: Re: Uncoordinated flight help! (Rick Neilsen)
10. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: Uncoordinated flight help! (Larry Cottrell)
11. 11:18 AM - Re: Uncoordinated flight help! (Adam Canterbury)
12. 03:33 PM - Re: Re: Uncoordinated flight help! (John Hauck)
13. 06:08 PM - Re: Uncoordinated flight help! (Adam Canterbury)
14. 08:05 PM - Re: Uncoordinated flight help! (HGRAFF@aol.com)
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| Subject: | Uncoordinated flight help! |
I have a Kolb Kolbra and I am needing some advice on how to change the rigging
of the flight controls. I am having to hold a good deal of right rudder in straight
and level flight to get the ball centered. I do have a substantial trim
tab on the rudder. What can be done to correct this problem? I would like for
the plane to fly straight hands off. Is that too much to ask?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422447#422447
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0200_897.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
it might not be too much to ask... but your results may vary....... when I
looked at your photo... I saw your trim tab on the side of the rudder.....
I am not an aerospace engineer,,, but in my humble opinion the trim tab as
installed is working more as a spoiler, creating quite a bit of drag behind
the tab and not deflecting the rudder as you would want........ in my
humble opinion,, the trim tab would be more effective if it were installed
so the bend was just behind the trailing edge. this way it could become
part of the airfoil...
boyd young
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have a Kolb Kolbra and I am needing some advice on how to change the
rigging of the flight controls. I am having to hold a good deal of right
rudder in straight and level flight to get the ball centered. I do have a
substantial trim tab on the rudder. What can be done to correct this
problem? I would like for the plane to fly straight hands off. Is that too
much to ask?
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| Subject: | Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
That does make sense. I am just trying to work out all the bugs on this airplane
that the previous owner neglected. Thanks for the reply.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422453#422453
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| Subject: | Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
Hi ,
I do believe that Boyd is right. However if that doesn't compleatly
Solve the problem. You might want to try welding up the hole in one or
both of the mounting tabs for the wing and redrilling the holes in a
Slightly differently position. Quite a bit of work but it worked for my Firestar.
Good luck
Frank.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 27, 2014, at 11:07 AM, "Adam Canterbury" <canterbury.adam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That does make sense. I am just trying to work out all the bugs on this airplane
that the previous owner neglected. Thanks for the reply.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422453#422453
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Need Helmet/Headset Recommendation |
I need a recommendation on a good Helmet/Headset system. I am looking at Lynx or
FlyCom. Maybe a good noise cancelling headset alone will be good. Like a Lightspeed
Zulu or a Bose A20. I just need something designed for use in a noisy
cockpit.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422455#422455
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| Subject: | Re: Need Helmet/Headset Recommendation |
Adam
do your own research and you will get some good advice from the group. I
have walked by the Bose tent hundreds of times, they have a low frequency
noise they generate that their headphones (seems like they are one of the
best?) do a real good job filtering out. My redrive VW produces a higher
frequency noise and Rotax engines are even higher frequency that noise
canceling headphone have trouble stopping. I have a Sigtronics headset that
I have installed the Headsets noise canceling kit in. It does a fair job
but needs help. I wear the in the ear canal ear phones (low profile) under
my headsets and the two do a real good job.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Adam Canterbury <canterbury.adam@gmail.com
> wrote:
> canterbury.adam@gmail.com>
>
> I need a recommendation on a good Helmet/Headset system. I am looking at
> Lynx or FlyCom. Maybe a good noise cancelling headset alone will be good.
> Like a Lightspeed Zulu or a Bose A20. I just need something designed for
> use in a noisy cockpit.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422455#422455
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
Hi,
Is the problem that she wants to roll or to yaw?
If its roll. (assuming the Kolbra is rigged like the Xtra) adjust the height
of the trailing edges. Yaw. just check that everything is built square,
engine properly aligned. Probably take the trim tab off and start from
scratch. When you start making adjustments do ONE thing at a time.
As one of our main gurus says
Worth what you paid for it.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Canterbury
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:39 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Uncoordinated flight help!
<canterbury.adam@gmail.com>
I have a Kolb Kolbra and I am needing some advice on how to change the
rigging of the flight controls. I am having to hold a good deal of right
rudder in straight and level flight to get the ball centered. I do have a
substantial trim tab on the rudder. What can be done to correct this
problem? I would like for the plane to fly straight hands off. Is that too
much to ask?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422447#422447
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0200_897.jpg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Need Helmet/Headset Recommendation |
On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote:
> Adam
>
> do your own research and you will get some good advice from the group. I
> have walked by the Bose tent hundreds of times, they have a low frequency
> noise they generate that their headphones (seems like they are one of the
> best?) do a real good job filtering out. My redrive VW produces a higher
> frequency noise and Rotax engines are even higher frequency that noise
> canceling headphone have trouble stopping. I have a Sigtronics headset that
> I have installed the Headsets noise canceling kit in. It does a fair job
> but needs help. I wear the in the ear canal ear phones (low profile) under
> my headsets and the two do a real good job.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Head phones are funny. I have a Sigtronics S45 that works quite well for
>> me. The reason that they don't work better is that the spring holding the
>> headset to your head is a little weak. I just installed a strap that will
>> allow me to pull it tight under my chin, so that it will block more of the
>> noise. If I did not wear glasses and have a beard, I am sure that it would
>> do a better job. I did install the gel ear pads, and they helped a lot.
>>
>
I have a friend that put ANL into the same set and he likes it a lot. It
is worse than the ones that I have-- to me. He has tried mine and the noise
is much worse, so its not the headsets, it is my ears, and the frequency. I
had a DRE anr headset that I sold because it was not as quiet as my Sigs.
Others swear by them. You are just going to have to try them to see which
fits you.
The Bose are a bit out of my price range, so I cannot comment on them. The
David Clark are good headsets, but they squeeze my head like a zit, and I
cannot wear them for very long until it becomes a distraction.
Of all the cheap (reasonable ) headsets out there, Sigtronics are the best.
Good luck,
Larry
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
Adam
Frank has introduce another component of trim. It your plane rolls right or
left it is a rigging issue that can be resolved by as Frank suggests,
buying the Kolb universal bracket that allows the owner to do small
adjustments to the angle of attack of one wing and/or aileron trim tabs.
These will fix roll tendencies that are countered by lateral pressure on
the stick.
The trim tab on the rudder counters P factor from the prop under power. You
can can get a roll trim issue if you are slipping sideways so you need to
know where the issue is.
You may know this but the trim tab on the rudder doesn't trim the airplane
it only moves the rudder in the direction where it will trim the airplane.
When installed properly it looks backward. The photo shows the trim tab in
less than ideal location. It should be a attached as far aft on the rudder
as possible. I would recommend moving it aft as far as possible positioned
on the angle of the trailing edge of the rudder and down a bit (may be one
rib) from the current location. You may want to round the sharp edges a bit
also.
As always worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Frank Goodnight
<frank.goodnight@att.net>wrote:
>
> Hi ,
> I do believe that Boyd is right. However if that doesn't compleatly
> Solve the problem. You might want to try welding up the hole in one or
> both of the mounting tabs for the wing and redrilling the holes in a
> Slightly differently position. Quite a bit of work but it worked for my
> Firestar.
> Good luck
> Frank.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 27, 2014, at 11:07 AM, "Adam Canterbury" <canterbury.adam@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> canterbury.adam@gmail.com>
> >
> > That does make sense. I am just trying to work out all the bugs on this
> airplane that the previous owner neglected. Thanks for the reply.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422453#422453
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote:
> Adam
>
> Frank has introduce another component of trim. It your plane rolls right
> or left it is a rigging issue that can be resolved by as Frank suggests,
> buying the Kolb universal bracket that allows the owner to do small
> adjustments to the angle of attack of one wing and/or aileron trim tabs.
> These will fix roll tendencies that are countered by lateral pressure on
> the stick.
>
> The trim tab on the rudder counters P factor from the prop under power.
> You can can get a roll trim issue if you are slipping sideways so you need
> to know where the issue is.
>
> You may know this but the trim tab on the rudder doesn't trim the airplane
> it only moves the rudder in the direction where it will trim the airplane.
> When installed properly it looks backward. The photo shows the trim tab in
> less than ideal location. It should be a attached as far aft on the rudder
> as possible. I would recommend moving it aft as far as possible positioned
> on the angle of the trailing edge of the rudder and down a bit (may be one
> rib) from the current location. You may want to round the sharp edges a bit
> also.
>
> As always worth what you paid for it.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
>>
>>
>> All of the previous comments apply, and they better explain your possible
fix. My purpose is to show you what I have to counter trim issues with
mine, perhaps there will be something there that will help you with your
problem.
If you use lexan for your trim tab, it helps with the visibility problem
that yours has. I put a much bigger one than I needed and trimmed it down,
1/4 inch at a time with tin snips, until it did no more than was needed to
keep the plane flying straight. Lexan can be bent cold with no problem. I
used a 2x4 and cut a kerf in it deep enough to get the bend that I needed.
Wood does not scratch it. If you have access to a "brake" then protect it
with cardboard and you will have something that will better blend in with
your paint color.
Larry
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
A lot of great information here. I think that I will take the trim tab off and
start from scratch. My problem is not a roll problem. Just yaw.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422467#422467
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
--> <canterbury.adam@gmail.com>
A lot of great information here. I think that I will take the trim tab off
and start from scratch. My problem is not a roll problem. Just yaw.
Adam C/Kolbers:
Looks like the trim tab is on the left side of your rudder. I am assuming
the prop turns counterclockwise as seen from the rear facing forward. This
would be the same rotation as a 912. I don't know what engine you have.
Don't think that is important, but direction of rotation is.
There is a photo attached that shows my trim tab on my MKIII. The size and
angle centers the ball on my slip/skid indicator, feet off the pedals, at
cruise (80 mph) and most other airspeeds.
The other two photos are of an experimental trim tab that I tested and did
not use. However, the dimensions are what I have installed. The squiggly
lines indicate the bottom 1/3 I removed after discovering I had too much
trim tab initially.
The part that rivets to the rudder ribs is 1 7/8" wide. I used 1/8"
aluminum fabric rivets to attach the trim tab.
The angle is about 30 degrees and the trailing edge is 3 1/8" wide.
Total length is 14".
I have done a lot of experimenting with my MKIII over the past 22 years.
Rudder trim tabs is one of them. Finally, found the cure for my airplane,
and this is it.
Adverse yaw during cruise flight is caused, primarily, by the way the prop
wash strikes the vertical stabilizer, upper and lower, the rudder, and the
horizontal stabilizer.
It is not necessary to tuft the tail surfaces to find out what is happening
back there during flight. If you over fill the oil tank or fly in rough
air, there'll be enough oil mist hit the tail section to know right where
the prop wash is going. Prop wash does not come straight back from the
prop, but has tremendous twist, much like a tornado. This is what is
constantly hitting the tail surfaces, primarily the left side of the
vertical stab and the top of the left horizontal stab.
When mounting the rudder trim tab, insure the bend is in line with the
trailing edge of the rudder. Also insure the bottom of the trim tab is
clear of the inboard end of the elevator when the stick is full aft.
The above did not happen overnight. It took a lot of flying over the years
to nail down what the best fix would be.
This is how I did it. Not recommending anyone else do it my way.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
I think I would be well suited to model a new trim tab like yours and go from there.
Thanks so much!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422478#422478
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
When you intentionally do a Slip , the ball is all whacked out, because you
are cross-controlled with both ailerons and rudder.
With that in mind, you probably also need aileron trim. Tell. what happens
when you try
to fly hands & feet off. The first action of the aircraft indicates a lot
where to start. It takes a careful balancing of both trims to get it flying
straight with the ball in the center. Don't dispair it is a repetitious
process to zero in.
Herb Graff
Mark III N246KT
In a message dated 4/27/2014 11:39:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
canterbury.adam@gmail.com writes:
I have a Kolb Kolbra and I am needing some advice on how to change the
rigging of the flight controls. I am having to hold a good deal of right
rudder in straight and level flight to get the ball centered. I do have a
substantial trim tab on the rudder. What can be done to correct this problem?
I
would like for the plane to fly straight hands off. Is that too much to ask?
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