---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/28/14: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:56 AM - Re: Electrical Issue With My VW Powered MKIIIC (Rick Neilsen) 2. 11:23 AM - New video program (Larry Cottrell) 3. 07:34 PM - Re: Electrical Issue With My VW Powered MKIIIC (Charlie England) 4. 09:49 PM - Re: Electrical Issue With My VW Powered MKIIIC (Rick Neilsen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Electrical Issue With My VW Powered MKIIIC From: Rick Neilsen Charlie Lithium batteries have been used in cell phones, and laptop computers for years and ARE known for their large total capacity. We are now seeing them in cordless drills because people want light long lasting power. I understand the drill market is driving lithium development at a much faster pace than expected. My lead acid battery was a 12 AMPH it would just barely start the engine and if it got below 50 degrees F it wouldn't without a jump from my external charger. When I installed the new lithium battery I turned off the master fuel valve and cranked five times for 5-10 seconds with a cool down with no change in cranking speed. My old lead acid battery would drop off near the end of the second crank. When I first got the lithium battery I was convinced they forgot to put the guts in the battery case it is that light. Yes my ignition system is electrically dependent. Luckily I have a alternator that is bolted to the flywheel so as long as the engine is turning it will produce current. It does have a external regulator which could fail but so far it has been much more reliable than my fuel pumps. Even though the external regulator hadn't really failed it is now new as is most of the electrical system along with extra ground wires, switches, fuel pumps, fuel filters, and a host of other things that I fixed looking for my electrical issue. Also my empty weight was 598lbs with the new battery and lighter redrive it is 587lbs. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Charlie England wrote: > On 6/27/2014 5:48 PM, Rick Neilsen wrote: > > It is finally Fixed. > > Thanks for everyone's input on the issue I was having with my VW powered > Kolb MKIIIC. You may not remember but I had a ammeter that started > fluttering from -20 amps to + 20 amps. Turns out it was the primary fuel > pump. Since it just started doing it after 12 years it was likely it was in > short failure mode. > > About seven years ago I replaced the Faucet back up fuel pump when it > stopped without warning but it was just a back up pump so no big deal. > > The new replacement pump is a Carter automotive inline pump. This pump > doesn't allow fuel to pass through it when turned off so I had to re plumb > my fuel system to put the pumps in parallel with a check valve on the > Faucet pump. > > Any way it is fixed. Now I need to go back and undo some of the changes > I did to track down the problem. > > In the process I also changed the battery to one of the new Lithium batteries > like Aircraft Spruce sells called AeroVoltz it is a 15 AMP battery and I > usually use a cheap 12 AMP lawn mower battery. Any way the battery is more > than 10 lb less and boy does it spin the starter. > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC > > Hi Rick, > > I've forgotten; is your VW 'electrically dependent'? If so, have you > verified how long the lithium can keep it running if you lose the > alternator? I ask, because many of the lithium starting batteries have tons > of starting power, but very limited total energy. There's a big discussion > among bigger homebuilt guys right now about how to determine total > capacity. Bob Nuckolls recently wrote a good article about the issue in > Kitplanes. > > FWIW, > > Charlie > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:23:50 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: New video program From: Larry Cottrell I have been having trouble with my copy of "Movie Maker" that came with my computer. It had been cropping my videos down from full screen. So much so that I decided to purchase a video program. ( drastic step there ) After looking on the internet I found a program called "Cyberllink power director." It was reputed to rate a 10 for ease of use. I will not go into all the crap that I had to suffer through just to download it on my computer. Lets just say that it took better than two days just to get in on the computer. I was sure that I had made a mistake, but they already had my card info, so making the best of it was the only option. Perhaps I am just a dummy, or the guy's that rated it easy had already been through much harder learning curves than I am willing to go through. Of course the manual is on line, and about 200 pages long. That in its self gives you an idea of the problem. The damn thing does too much. I merely want to cut out the boring parts of the flights, add some narration and music. I really don't want to be famous, I don't want world acclaim, just a simple video of high quality that I can share with a select number of people that share my interest. Apparently I am close to one of a kind. That feature is tough to find in this program. So far it has taken me two and half days to produce and upload to vimeo a 2 min 30 second video. I think a lot of my problems stem from me wanting to keep it private. I have for some time realized the handicap of a full enclosure when it comes to pictures and videos. While the brain compensates for the distortion of Lexan, the camera does not. I put a short wind screen on the Kolb and found that it dropped my speed by about 7 MPH. No way, much too impatient for that. I have a wrap around "full enclosure" from Kolb that is scratched from use on the right side where I got in and out. I decided to cut a window where I would normally look, for the lens of my camera. I bent a couple of pieces of Lexan to form a wind deflector. It works fine. I got my speed back, the wind doesn't hit me and I can now see, even if there isn't a camera stuck through it. To test it out, I decided to try an early morning flight, just as the sun came up, to the Pillars of Rome. I have a lot of pictures of them, but nothing really good. I got up before dawn, but there was a storm front blowing in and the sun wasn't showing through. Finally later in the morning the clouds broke enough that I thought that area may possibly be in the clear. I wanted to test the port hole any way. I am very pleased with the result. I will be able to continue to use the enclosure and not have to replace it after all. The video taken also gave me a chance to try out the new editing program. Here is the result. https://vimeo.com/99418916 password- owyheeflyer Larry -- *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:41 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Electrical Issue With My VW Powered MKIIIC I understand all the points you make, but the batteries in cell phones, drills, etc are sized specifically for those applications. On the other hand, most, if not all of the current crop of lithium batteries being offered for starting duties are sized based on their ability to dump tremendous current in a short period of time. That ability does not address the *total energy* available in the battery. There's a difference between available power, and available energy. Consider a hypothetical Corvette with a 450 hp engine and a 5 gallon fuel tank of fuel, vs a long range econobox with a 100 hp engine and a 20 gallon tank of fuel. The Corvette has over 4 times the power, but the econobox has 4 times the energy available. The watercraft, motorcycles, etc using the new lithium starting batteries are getting batteries sized like the Corvette with big motor & small tank of gas. My question was, have you checked the energy capacity of your new lithium starting battery to be sure that it can keep your engine/fuel pumps, etc running long enough to find a safe landing spot if the alternator or regulator fails. With your particular installation, engine current demand, and typical flight duration, it may not be a factor at all. For bigger homebuilts that typically fly longer missions, it can be a big issue. In any case, I'd want to know whether my engine will quit 10 minutes or 2 hours after the alternator stops making energy. Charlie On 6/28/2014 9:56 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote: > Charlie > > Lithium batteries have been used in cell phones, and laptop computers > for years and ARE known for their large total capacity. We are now > seeing them in cordless drills because people want light long lasting > power. I understand the drill market is driving lithium development at > a much faster pace than expected. My lead acid battery was a 12 AMPH > it would just barely start the engine and if it got below 50 degrees F > it wouldn't without a jump from my external charger. When I installed > the new lithium battery I turned off the master fuel valve and cranked > five times for 5-10 seconds with a cool down with no change in > cranking speed. My old lead acid battery would drop off near the end > of the second crank. When I first got the lithium battery I was > convinced they forgot to put the guts in the battery case it is that > light. > > Yes my ignition system is electrically dependent. Luckily I have a > alternator that is bolted to the flywheel so as long as the engine is > turning it will produce current. It does have a external regulator > which could fail but so far it has been much more reliable than my > fuel pumps. Even though the external regulator hadn't really failed it > is now new as is most of the electrical system along with extra ground > wires, switches, fuel pumps, fuel filters, and a host of other things > that I fixed looking for my electrical issue. > > Also my empty weight was 598lbs with the new battery and lighter > redrive it is 587lbs. > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC > > > On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Charlie England > > wrote: > > On 6/27/2014 5:48 PM, Rick Neilsen wrote: >> It is finally Fixed. >> >> Thanks for everyone's input on the issue I was having with my VW >> powered Kolb MKIIIC. You may not remember but I had a ammeter >> that started fluttering from -20 amps to + 20 amps. Turns out it >> was the primary fuel pump. Since it just started doing it after >> 12 years it was likely it was in short failure mode. >> >> About seven years ago I replaced the Faucet back up fuel pump >> when it stopped without warning but it was just a back up pump so >> no big deal. >> >> The new replacement pump is a Carter automotive inline pump. This >> pump doesn't allow fuel to pass through it when turned off so I >> had to re plumb my fuel system to put the pumps in parallel with >> a check valve on the Faucet pump. >> >> Any way it is fixed. Now I need to go back and undo some of the >> changes I did to track down the problem. >> >> In the process I also changed the battery to one of the new >> Lithium batteries like Aircraft Spruce sells called AeroVoltz it >> is a 15 AMP battery and I usually use a cheap 12 AMP lawn mower >> battery. Any way the battery is more than 10 lb less and boy does >> it spin the starter. >> >> Rick Neilsen >> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC >> > Hi Rick, > > I've forgotten; is your VW 'electrically dependent'? If so, have > you verified how long the lithium can keep it running if you lose > the alternator? I ask, because many of the lithium starting > batteries have tons of starting power, but very limited total > energy. There's a big discussion among bigger homebuilt guys right > now about how to determine total capacity. Bob Nuckolls recently > wrote a good article about the issue in Kitplanes. > > FWIW, > > Charlie > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Electrical Issue With My VW Powered MKIIIC From: Rick Neilsen Chairly You have hijacked the point of my post. If you want to debate lithium on your own thread be my guest. I have a fixed airplane and I'm happy with it. Rick Neilsen 1st Redrive VW powered MKIIIC On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Charlie England wrote: > I understand all the points you make, but the batteries in cell phones, > drills, etc are sized specifically for those applications. On the other > hand, most, if not all of the current crop of lithium batteries being > offered for starting duties are sized based on their ability to dump > tremendous current in a short period of time. That ability does not address > the *total energy* available in the battery. There's a difference between > available power, and available energy. > > Consider a hypothetical Corvette with a 450 hp engine and a 5 gallon fuel > tank of fuel, vs a long range econobox with a 100 hp engine and a 20 gallon > tank of fuel. The Corvette has over 4 times the power, but the econobox has > 4 times the energy available. > > The watercraft, motorcycles, etc using the new lithium starting batteries > are getting batteries sized like the Corvette with big motor & small tank > of gas. > > My question was, have you checked the energy capacity of your new lithium > starting battery to be sure that it can keep your engine/fuel pumps, etc > running long enough to find a safe landing spot if the alternator or > regulator fails. > > With your particular installation, engine current demand, and typical > flight duration, it may not be a factor at all. For bigger homebuilts that > typically fly longer missions, it can be a big issue. In any case, I'd want > to know whether my engine will quit 10 minutes or 2 hours after the > alternator stops making energy. > > Charlie > > > On 6/28/2014 9:56 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote: > > Charlie > > Lithium batteries have been used in cell phones, and laptop computers > for years and ARE known for their large total capacity. We are now seeing > them in cordless drills because people want light long lasting power. I > understand the drill market is driving lithium development at a much faster > pace than expected. My lead acid battery was a 12 AMPH it would just barely > start the engine and if it got below 50 degrees F it wouldn't without a > jump from my external charger. When I installed the new lithium battery I > turned off the master fuel valve and cranked five times for 5-10 seconds > with a cool down with no change in cranking speed. My old lead acid battery > would drop off near the end of the second crank. When I first got the > lithium battery I was convinced they forgot to put the guts in the battery > case it is that light. > > Yes my ignition system is electrically dependent. Luckily I have a > alternator that is bolted to the flywheel so as long as the engine is > turning it will produce current. It does have a external regulator which > could fail but so far it has been much more reliable than my fuel pumps. > Even though the external regulator hadn't really failed it is now new as is > most of the electrical system along with extra ground wires, switches, fuel > pumps, fuel filters, and a host of other things that I fixed looking for my > electrical issue. > > Also my empty weight was 598lbs with the new battery and lighter redrive > it is 587lbs. > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC > > > On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Charlie England > wrote: > >> On 6/27/2014 5:48 PM, Rick Neilsen wrote: >> >> It is finally Fixed. >> >> Thanks for everyone's input on the issue I was having with my VW powered >> Kolb MKIIIC. You may not remember but I had a ammeter that started >> fluttering from -20 amps to + 20 amps. Turns out it was the primary fuel >> pump. Since it just started doing it after 12 years it was likely it was in >> short failure mode. >> >> About seven years ago I replaced the Faucet back up fuel pump when it >> stopped without warning but it was just a back up pump so no big deal. >> >> The new replacement pump is a Carter automotive inline pump. This pump >> doesn't allow fuel to pass through it when turned off so I had to re plumb >> my fuel system to put the pumps in parallel with a check valve on the >> Faucet pump. >> >> Any way it is fixed. Now I need to go back and undo some of the changes >> I did to track down the problem. >> >> In the process I also changed the battery to one of the new Lithium batteries >> like Aircraft Spruce sells called AeroVoltz it is a 15 AMP battery and I >> usually use a cheap 12 AMP lawn mower battery. Any way the battery is more >> than 10 lb less and boy does it spin the starter. >> >> Rick Neilsen >> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC >> >> Hi Rick, >> >> I've forgotten; is your VW 'electrically dependent'? If so, have you >> verified how long the lithium can keep it running if you lose the >> alternator? I ask, because many of the lithium starting batteries have tons >> of starting power, but very limited total energy. There's a big discussion >> among bigger homebuilt guys right now about how to determine total >> capacity. Bob Nuckolls recently wrote a good article about the issue in >> Kitplanes. >> >> FWIW, >> >> Charlie >> > > * > > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.