Kolb-List Digest Archive

Thu 09/04/14


Total Messages Posted: 8



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:07 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 09/03/14 (b young)
     2. 08:56 AM - Re: Rudder Failure on my Xtra. (Jason Omelchuck)
     3. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Failure on my Xtra. (John Hauck)
     4. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: pitch? (Stuart Harner)
     5. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Rudder Failure on my Xtra. (Richard Girard)
     6. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: Rudder Failure on my Xtra. (Richard Girard)
     7. 05:02 PM - Re: Rudder Failure on my Xtra. (Jason Omelchuck)
     8. 06:46 PM - Re: 80 or 100 hp? (alienwes)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 07:07:23 AM PST US
    From: "b young" <byoungplumbing@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 09/03/14
    What concerns me is, this was a critical, safety-of-flight component that failed. Good thing this happened on a landing rollout, and not in flight. Why did this steel part fail? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as to the why part,,, I am just guessing out loud here....( only because I have found myself guilty on occasion) when applying heavy breaking to keep from moving during a run up or slow down during a landing,,,, could there be too much pressure being applied to the rudder pedals at the same time.... with heal breaks you can apply pressure to rudder, brakes, or both,,, if you have toe brakes,,, it is always both,,, if you are holding enough pressure to keep from moving and this pressure is being applied to the rudder,,, you are IMHO,,, in my humble opinion,,, over stressing the rudder linkages. just a fifty cent guess, do not archive boyd young --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:56:54 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rudder Failure on my Xtra.
    From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com>
    I agree, it is disconcerting to have a flight critical part fail. Please remember you are flying an experimental aircraft. It is built with non aircraft (approved) parts and not designed and built to approved aircraft standards. Even when planes are built with approved parts they fail. I would use this as a wake up call to inspect every piece of steel on your aircraft for cracks. I would mention this desire to the next person who annuals the aircraft. It is good you have posted this on the list so others can immediately go inspect their aircraft. Use this as an opportunity to adjust your perspective and make yourself safer. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429973#429973


    Message 3


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    Time: 11:21:41 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Rudder Failure on my Xtra.
    Jason O/Kolbers: The reason I bought my first Kolb aircraft kit, an Ultrastar, February 1984, was because it was delivered with, primarily, aviation parts and material. Even then, I had an aileron bell crank fail like the MKIIIx rudder bell crank. Pulled the crank right out of the tube wall, weld and all. As far as I know, I am the only one that achieved that mark of distinction. There may have been others, but Homer Kolb kept it a secret if there was. Kolb aircraft are built with standard aviation parts and material, especially in flight critical areas. There are non-standard items on Kolb aircraft, but most all of them are not used in flight critical systems. I got a feeling our friend has a strong leg and a strong arm on the controls. Took some work to weaken the rudder pedal bell crank and axles, to the point they failed his last landing. I may have the heaviest MKIII in the inventory, and probably fly with heavier loads than most. I used those same axles and wheels for more than two thousand hours and thousands of landings. Never broke an axle but broke the weld/tube wall from the gear leg/axle socket. I have a feeling if I had kept on accumulating hours and landings on those 5/8" axles, they would have failed too. Personally, and my opinion only, the failure of a rudder pedal or bell crank is not flight critical on a Kolb. If you were club footed enough to break one in the air, you can fly and land the Kolb without killing yourself. Here's where it is nice to have good differential braking, that works. Very easy to maintain and control yaw, and steer the Kolb on the ground with differential brakes. Because I have around 100 lbs on my tail wheel, I depend on differential brakes most of the time to help me control my MKIII on the ground. Kolbs are experimental to a point. For the most part, Hauck's opinion again, that doesn't mean much except the aircraft may have been amateur built and has not been certified. I have an FAA Airworthiness Certificate issued for N101AB. That's good enough for me. I like to think Homer Kolb's airplanes have been tested with thousands and thousands of flight hours over the past 30 plus years. Like Jason said, there are parts that wear out and break on certified aircraft. When something like that happens to our Kolbs, this is a good place to share so we can all make note of it and take necessary action to fix it. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama I agree, it is disconcerting to have a flight critical part fail. Please remember you are flying an experimental aircraft. It is built with non aircraft (approved) parts and not designed and built to approved aircraft standards. Even when planes are built with approved parts they fail


    Message 4


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    Time: 02:14:06 PM PST US
    From: "Stuart Harner" <stuart@harnerfarm.net>
    Subject: Re: pitch?
    Thanks, that is where I will start too. Stuart Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of baberdk Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 4:00 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: pitch? I started at 16 degrees and then adjusted for 6250 rpm static Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429870#429870


    Message 5


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    Time: 03:17:05 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rudder Failure on my Xtra.
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Jason, The 4130 seamless steel tubing used in a Kolb IS aircraft quality, so are the aluminum alloys that make up the spars, ribs and control surfaces, the AN bolts that hold parts together and the cloth that covers it all. Please take the time to think before you post such nonsense. Now about the break. The best thing to do is have the part analyzed to see what caused the break. Too much heat used during the welding process? Allowing the weld to cool too fast? There are a number of causes that a metallurgical lab would be able to pinpoint, Then we could all make a reasoned decision about what steps to take AFTER we know the TRUE cause. What we don't need is incoherent raving. My 2 cents. Carry on. Rick Girard do not archive On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Jason Omelchuck <jason@trek-tech.com> wrote: > > I agree, it is disconcerting to have a flight critical part fail. Please > remember you are flying an experimental aircraft. It is built with non > aircraft (approved) parts and not designed and built to approved aircraft > standards. Even when planes are built with approved parts they fail. I > would use this as a wake up call to inspect every piece of steel on your > aircraft for cracks. I would mention this desire to the next person who > annuals the aircraft. It is good you have posted this on the list so > others can immediately go inspect their aircraft. Use this as an > opportunity to adjust your perspective and make yourself safer. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429973#429973 > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 6


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    Time: 03:36:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rudder Failure on my Xtra.
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    As long as I'm thinking about it, here's a simple thing Brad could do that would help start the investigation. Pull out the part that broke off and look at the nature of the break. Is there a part that shows signs of corrosion, i.e. rust? This would most likely be where the crack started. Is there a portion that appears as though the weld did not penetrate both sides of the weld line? Is there a portion of the crack that appears polished? This would indicate that after the crack started the two parts worked against each other as the crack grew. How much of the material appears grainy? This would be the area that finally gave up when the last stress was applied and the part finally failed. >From this visual analysis reasonable ideas about whether the failure was caused by a manufacturing defect, a design defect, or a material defect. Anyway, that's where I'd start if it were my rudder pedal weldment. Again, my 2 cents, or is that 3? Rick Girard do not archive On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote: > Jason, The 4130 seamless steel tubing used in a Kolb IS aircraft quality, > so are the aluminum alloys that make up the spars, ribs and control > surfaces, the AN bolts that hold parts together and the cloth that covers > it all. Please take the time to think before you post such nonsense. > Now about the break. The best thing to do is have the part analyzed to see > what caused the break. Too much heat used during the welding process? > Allowing the weld to cool too fast? There are a number of causes that a > metallurgical lab would be able to pinpoint, Then we could all make a > reasoned decision about what steps to take AFTER we know the TRUE cause. > What we don't need is incoherent raving. > My 2 cents. Carry on. > > Rick Girard > do not archive > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Jason Omelchuck <jason@trek-tech.com> > wrote: > >> >> I agree, it is disconcerting to have a flight critical part fail. Please >> remember you are flying an experimental aircraft. It is built with non >> aircraft (approved) parts and not designed and built to approved aircraft >> standards. Even when planes are built with approved parts they fail. I >> would use this as a wake up call to inspect every piece of steel on your >> aircraft for cracks. I would mention this desire to the next person who >> annuals the aircraft. It is good you have posted this on the list so >> others can immediately go inspect their aircraft. Use this as an >> opportunity to adjust your perspective and make yourself safer. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429973#429973 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 7


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    Time: 05:02:31 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rudder Failure on my Xtra.
    From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com>
    Rick, your MKIII must have been different than mine because mine was not built to any aircraft standard. I did not compare the parts I received to the engineering drawings, I did not even receive dimensional drawings to compare the parts to. Heck I even put a plaque in my that stated it was amateur built and did not comply with FAA standard aircraft rules. Mine was put together with a couple of thousand hardware store stainless steel pop rivets. The poly fiber I used was not FAA/PMA stamped. I think you take my post the wrong way. I like Kolbs and think they are fine aircraft and for me that is not diminished by the fact it does not meet aircraft standards. Some of the parts I used may be the same alloys or manufactured the same way as aircraft parts but that does not make the airplane built to FAA aircraft standards. FWIW Jason Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430012#430012


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:46:17 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 80 or 100 hp?
    From: "alienwes" <elliott.wesley@yahoo.com>
    Thanks John. The 80 hp has some really good attributes that I did not know of. I am used to everyone in the PPC world saying it's gotta be the 100 hp. It is probably because the PPC wings are so ineffecient. Thanks again for your input. Wes -------- Wesley Elliott Sport Pilot-PPC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430021#430021




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