Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:58 AM - Gas leak (william sullivan)
2. 11:44 AM - Re: Gas leak (Richard Girard)
3. 12:39 PM - Re: Gas leak (b young)
4. 12:50 PM - Re: Gas leak (Samuel Briseno)
5. 01:05 PM - long rool out (Malcolm Brubaker)
6. 03:36 PM - Re: Gas leak (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
7. 03:59 PM - Re: Gas leak ()
8. 04:47 PM - Re: long rool out (Dennis Rowe)
9. 05:26 PM - Re: long rool out (Richard Girard)
10. 05:32 PM - Re: long rool out (Larry Cottrell)
11. 06:05 PM - Re: Gas leak (Ducati SS)
12. 07:02 PM - Re: long rool out (Dennis Rowe)
13. 07:32 PM - Re: long rool out (Richard Girard)
14. 09:09 PM - Heading Home ()
Message 1
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I have an old Firestar, with a 447sc, "B" box 2.58, and a two blade Warp prop.
I have had a little trouble tracing a gas leak on the Bing 54. When idling
at 1600 rpm, the engine shakes pretty good, and will shudder. At this point,
gas drips from the bottom of the bowl. I changed the bowl gasket- looked a little
crushed. The gas line clamp was a little too big, leaving a flat spot when
it wasn't compressed in a full circle. The idle air screw "O" ring was a
little loose. Fixed both problems. Could the low idle be shaking the floats
enough that gas is just overflowing? I can't get really close enough to check
it running, with the fan there and all that. The engine also starts right up
with the enricher, but I have to play with the throttle to keep it that way for
a few seconds. I think that is normal.
At 2000 rpm, very smooth, no vibration or shaking, and I don't see gas until
I slow it down to shut it down.
Ideas, anyone?
Bill Sullivan
Windsor
Locks, Ct.
original
FS, 447
Message 2
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William, You might need to have the gearbox rebuilt to set the proper
pressure of the belleville washers that keep pressure on the drive dogs.
1600 is a little low for idle anyway so bump it up to 1800 and see if it
will smooth out there when it is fully warmed up. You might want to close
down the gap on the spark plugs a couple of thousandths too just to see if
that helps.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 11:57 AM, william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net
> wrote:
> I have an old Firestar, with a 447sc, "B" box 2.58, and a two blade Warp
> prop. I have had a little trouble tracing a gas leak on the Bing 54. When
> idling at 1600 rpm, the engine shakes pretty good, and will shudder. At
> this point, gas drips from the bottom of the bowl. I changed the bowl
> gasket- looked a little crushed. The gas line clamp was a little too big,
> leaving a flat spot when it wasn't compressed in a full circle. The idle
> air screw "O" ring was a little loose. Fixed both problems. Could the low
> idle be shaking the floats enough that gas is just overflowing? I can't
> get really close enough to check it running, with the fan there and all
> that. The engine also starts right up with the enricher, but I have to
> play with the throttle to keep it that way for a few seconds. I think that
> is normal.
> At 2000 rpm, very smooth, no vibration or shaking, and I don't see gas
> until I slow it down to shut it down.
> Ideas, anyone?
>
>
> Bill Sullivan
>
> Windsor Locks, Ct.
>
> original FS, 447
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 3
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yes the fuel can shake and come out the float bowl vent into the inlet of t
he carb. it usually will drip from the bottom of the air cleaner. and so
mewhere I have seen a drip tray that can be added to keep that from happeni
ng.... I don=99t remember where I have seen it.... but if idling fa
ster will eliminate the problem... that is your answer. my throttle stop i
s set lower because the enrichener works better at a more closed setting,
but as soon as it is started, I idle at no less than 1800 but usually clo
ser to 2000.the gear box likes it better there . if the inside of the air c
leaner is dry and the float bowl is wet, I am not sure where you could be
having a problem... if you take the carb off and cap the inlet and outlet
and with very light pressure blow into the fuel inlet and see if you can d
etermine any leaks. depending on where a leak may be, it could cause you
to run lean.
good luck
boyd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Could the low idle be shaking the floats enough that gas is just overflowin
g?
Bill
Sullivan
Wind
sor Locks, Ct.
ori
ginal FS, 447
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Message 4
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You don't have a leak. You idle at start up is too low. Besides dripping gas
out of the overflow, your wrecking your gear box. Min. rpm should be 1800- 2
000 as has already been suggested.
> On Sep 23, 2014, at 12:57 PM, william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net> w
rote:
>
> I have an old Firestar, with a 447sc, "B" box 2.58, and a two blade Warp
prop. I have had a little trouble tracing a gas leak on the Bing 54. When
idling at 1600 rpm, the engine shakes pretty good, and will shudder. At th
is point, gas drips from the bottom of the bowl. I changed the bowl gasket-
looked a little crushed. The gas line clamp was a little too big, leaving a
flat spot when it wasn't compressed in a full circle. The idle air screw "
O" ring was a little loose. Fixed both problems. Could the low idle be sha
king the floats enough that gas is just overflowing? I can't get really clo
se enough to check it running, with the fan there and all that. The engine a
lso starts right up with the enricher, but I have to play with the throttle t
o keep it that way for a few seconds. I think that is normal.
> At 2000 rpm, very smooth, no vibration or shaking, and I don't see gas u
ntil I slow it down to shut it down.
> Ideas, anyone?
>
> Bil
l Sullivan
> Win
dsor Locks, Ct.
> or
iginal FS, 447
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
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=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 5
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I like landing in a short field but my roll out is very long and my prop gets
green stuff all over it and needs re building every time I take off from there
I have already taken off the breaks because I cant find a good way to keep the
grass from getting clogged in them and beefed up the pito tube so it wont
get ripped off by the grass coming over the nose cone any moo.r any suggestions
on how to shorten up my ground rol.l
Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
http://michigansportpilotrepair.com/
LSRM-A, PPC, WS
Great Sails - Sailmaker
for Ultralight & Light Sport.
(989)513-3022
Message 6
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In a message dated 9/23/2014 12:58:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
williamtsullivan@att.net writes:
When idling at 1600 rpm, the engine shakes pretty good, and will shudder.
Hi Bill,
Are you getting your FireStar ready to fly?
As some others have already pointed out, I think your idle RPM is way too
low. I have mine set at 2100 RPM and it idles really smooth. However, it
does cause hard starting because the enrichener jet (choke) doesn't work
well, if at all, at the higher idle setting.
I installed a primer system that directs fuel to the carb. (not the primer
Bulb), but found out that it doesn't work so well for me either. When the
plane sits for a week or so between flights, most of the fuel in the
primer line leaks back into the fuel tank. So when I push/pull the primer knob,
I can never tell whether it is sending fuel to the carb. or not. I
usually end up flooding it.
My current procedure to start is to first use the primer Bulb to bring
fuel up from the tank to the float bowl. Then I turn the idle screw back two
turns, apply the enrichener and pull until it starts. I then use the
throttle to vary the RPM until it gets warmed up and then shut it down. Go back
and turn the idle screw back to its original position. Restart and go
flying.
Hope this helps,
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
(First flight 1994 years)
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
Message 7
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Been a while, but I believe I set low idle on my 447 at 1600. Once started on
the enricher, immediately idled up to 2000. That took all the rattle out of the
gear box. Kept at 2000 with throttle.
john
---- WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 9/23/2014 12:58:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> williamtsullivan@att.net writes:
>
> When idling at 1600 rpm, the engine shakes pretty good, and will shudder.
>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Are you getting your FireStar ready to fly?
>
> As some others have already pointed out, I think your idle RPM is way too
> low. I have mine set at 2100 RPM and it idles really smooth. However, it
> does cause hard starting because the enrichener jet (choke) doesn't work
> well, if at all, at the higher idle setting.
>
> I installed a primer system that directs fuel to the carb. (not the primer
> Bulb), but found out that it doesn't work so well for me either. When the
> plane sits for a week or so between flights, most of the fuel in the
> primer line leaks back into the fuel tank. So when I push/pull the primer knob,
> I can never tell whether it is sending fuel to the carb. or not. I
> usually end up flooding it.
>
> My current procedure to start is to first use the primer Bulb to bring
> fuel up from the tank to the float bowl. Then I turn the idle screw back two
> turns, apply the enrichener and pull until it starts. I then use the
> throttle to vary the RPM until it gets warmed up and then shut it down. Go
back
> and turn the idle screw back to its original position. Restart and go
> flying.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Bill Varnes
> Original Kolb FireStar
> (First flight 1994 years)
> Audubon NJ
> Do Not Archive
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: long rool out |
Man, I would cut the grass, but that won't help shorten your roll outs.
Dennis "Skid" Rowe
Mk3, Rotax 670,
Leechburg, PA
> On Sep 23, 2014, at 4:05 PM, Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal@yahoo.com> wrot
e:
>
> I like landing in a short field but my roll out is very long and my prop
gets green stuff all over it and needs re building every time I take off fr
om there I have already taken off the breaks because I cant find a good way t
o keep the grass from getting clogged in them and beefed up the pito tube s
o it wont get ripped off by the grass coming over the nose cone any moo.r
any suggestions on how to shorten up my ground rol.l
> Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
> Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
> http://michigansportpilotrepair.com/
> LSRM-A, PPC, WS
> Great Sails - Sailmaker
> for Ultralight & Light Sport.
> (989)513-3022
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: long rool out |
Perhaps you should check out what kind of grass you have planted on your
runway. Seriously. We have one section of Cherokee Strip that is a type of
Bermuda grass spec'd out for us by the Kansas Agricultural Extension
Service. We keep it at about 3", although the ag guys say 2" is better, but
when I mow it I can feel the tractor, a 36 hp Kubota, pulled down in that
section of the runway. I feel the same thing when I land in it. It's like
rolling into molasses.
The other thing you need to consider is that your buddies at the Friendly
Aviation Administration can call you for a prop strike if you have grass
stains on your prop. Sounds silly, but it's been done. When I was a student
pilot I landed at an old US Navy base on the Olympic Peninsula that had
since passed over to another agency and was no longer maintained very well
with 4 foot high weeds coming up through the cracks in the concrete. When I
got back to Renton my instructor passed the story along. Since this is the
airport that Boeing was flying new 737's out of every day we had a bit
higher FAA presence than a grass strip might have. Still, you happen upon
the wrong bureaucrat on the wrong day.....
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
wrote:
> Man, I would cut the grass, but that won't help shorten your roll outs.
>
> Dennis "Skid" Rowe
> Mk3, Rotax 670,
> Leechburg, PA
>
>
> On Sep 23, 2014, at 4:05 PM, Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> I like landing in a short field but my roll out is very long and my prop
> gets green stuff all over it and needs re building every time I take off
> from there I have already taken off the breaks because I cant find a good
> way to keep the grass from getting clogged in them and beefed up the pito
> tube so it wont get ripped off by the grass coming over the nose cone
> any moo.r any suggestions on how to shorten up my ground rol.l
> Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
> Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
> http://michigansportpilotrepair.com/
> LSRM-A, PPC, WS
> Great Sails - Sailmaker
> for Ultralight & Light Sport.
> (989)513-3022
>
>
> *
>
> ==================================
> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>
> ==================================
> cs.com <http://cs.com>
> ==================================
> matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution>
> ==================================
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: long rool out |
It could cut down on the repairs however. Just how tall is this "grass"?
Maybe you could give demo's on how to land in cornfield or Bean fields.
Larry
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 5:47 PM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
wrote:
> Man, I would cut the grass, but that won't help shorten your roll outs.
>
> Dennis "Skid" Rowe
> Mk3, Rotax 670,
> Leechburg, PA
>
>
> On Sep 23, 2014, at 4:05 PM, Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> I like landing in a short field but my roll out is very long and my prop
> gets green stuff all over it and needs re building every time I take off
> from there I have already taken off the breaks because I cant find a good
> way to keep the grass from getting clogged in them and beefed up the pito
> tube so it wont get ripped off by the grass coming over the nose cone
> any moo.r any suggestions on how to shorten up my ground rol.l
> Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
> Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
> http://michigansportpilotrepair.com/
> LSRM-A, PPC, WS
> Great Sails - Sailmaker
> for Ultralight & Light Sport.
> (989)513-3022
>
>
> *
>
> ==================================
> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>
> ==================================
> cs.com <http://cs.com>
> ==================================
> matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution>
> ==================================
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 11
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I suspect that due to the low idle speed and shaking some fuel is splashing around
and exiting the atmospheric vents. The carb relies on atmospheric pressure
to push the fuel up thru the jets to the lower pressure area of the venturi.
So there are ports that allow atmospheric pressure directly into the float chamber.
The problem may be aggravated by a higher than normal fuel level if the
floats and inlet needle are bouncing and allowing fuel past the valve. Do not
let the engine shake like that, not only is it bad for the gear box but it will
fatigue, damage and wear engine parts as well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431015#431015
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: long rool out |
Just realized this original post has to be a joke, seriously, grass over the
nosecone and wrecking the prop on every take off? No way. Not to mention a l
ong run out in this jungle in any Kolb? Mine stops in 200 feet of short gras
s almost every time.
We've been had.=F0=9F=98=9C
Dennis "Skid" Rowe
Mk3, Rotax 670,
Leechburg, PA
> On Sep 23, 2014, at 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com> wrot
e:
>
> It could cut down on the repairs however. Just how tall is this "grass"? M
aybe you could give demo's on how to land in cornfield or Bean fields.
> Larry
>
>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 5:47 PM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net> w
rote:
>> Man, I would cut the grass, but that won't help shorten your roll outs.
>>
>> Dennis "Skid" Rowe
>> Mk3, Rotax 670,
>> Leechburg, PA
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 23, 2014, at 4:05 PM, Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal@yahoo.com> wr
ote:
>>>
>>> I like landing in a short field but my roll out is very long and my pr
op gets green stuff all over it and needs re building every time I take off f
rom there I have already taken off the breaks because I cant find a good way
to keep the grass from getting clogged in them and beefed up the pito tube
so it wont get ripped off by the grass coming over the nose cone any moo.
r any suggestions on how to shorten up my ground rol.l
>>> Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
>>> Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
>>> http://michigansportpilotrepair.com/
>>> LSRM-A, PPC, WS
>>> Great Sails - Sailmaker
>>> for Ultralight & Light Sport.
>>> (989)513-3022
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =========
>>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>>> =========
>>> cs.com
>>> =========
>>> matronics.com/contribution
>>> =========
>>>
>>
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email addre
ss before sending.
>
>
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: long rool out |
Could be Dennis, but some of the old timers here at Cherokee Strip talk
about years when everyone was APO with everyone else and no one would mow
the runway or taxiways. Some Kansas grasses grow to 4 feet tall so you
could easily do as Malcolm describes.
Whatever.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 9:02 PM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
wrote:
> Just realized this original post has to be a joke, seriously, grass over
> the nosecone and wrecking the prop on every take off? No way. Not to
> mention a long run out in this jungle in any Kolb? Mine stops in 200 feet
> of short grass almost every time.
> We've been had.=F0=9F=98=9C
>
> Dennis "Skid" Rowe
> Mk3, Rotax 670,
> Leechburg, PA
>
>
> On Sep 23, 2014, at 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> It could cut down on the repairs however. Just how tall is this "grass"?
> Maybe you could give demo's on how to land in cornfield or Bean fields.
> Larry
>
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 5:47 PM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Man, I would cut the grass, but that won't help shorten your roll outs.
>>
>> Dennis "Skid" Rowe
>> Mk3, Rotax 670,
>> Leechburg, PA
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 23, 2014, at 4:05 PM, Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I like landing in a short field but my roll out is very long and my
>> prop gets green stuff all over it and needs re building every time I tak
e
>> off from there I have already taken off the breaks because I cant find a
>> good way to keep the grass from getting clogged in them and beefed up th
e
>> pito tube so it wont get ripped off by the grass coming over the nose
>> cone any moo.r any suggestions on how to shorten up my ground rol.l
>> Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
>> Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
>> http://michigansportpilotrepair.com/
>> LSRM-A, PPC, WS
>> Great Sails - Sailmaker
>> for Ultralight & Light Sport.
>> (989)513-3022
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> =========
>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?Kolb-List>
>> =========
>> cs.com <http://cs.com>
>> =========
>> matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution>
>> =========
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List <http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/
contribution>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
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--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
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Time to head back to hauck's holler and Gantt International Airport. Hope to finish
loading and take off in the morning.
Route of flight will be:
Rock House, OR
Buhl, ID
Paris, ID
Rawlins, WY
Akron, WY
Goodland, KS
Great Bend, KS
El Dorado, KS
Neosho, MO
Clinton, AR (?)
Clarksdale, MS
Starkville, MS
Gantt IAP, AL
1870 sm/24.0 flight hours/120 gal gas
Should make it in 4 days. I did two years ago. Weather looks OK, with wind, blowing
the wrong direction, in Kansas. Not as much wind in Arkansas, Mississippi,
and Alabama, but blowing the wrong way.
All systems are working well on the MKIII.
Will try to keep you all updated on my progress as time and FBO computers become
available.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
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