---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/06/14: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:03 AM - Re: trailering a fire fly (Robert Laird) 2. 08:08 AM - Re: trailering a fire fly (Stuart Harner) 3. 08:21 AM - Re: trailering a fire fly (Robert Laird) 4. 08:38 AM - Re: trailering a fire fly (George Alexander) 5. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: Serenity Flies, Take 2 (David Kulp) 6. 03:01 PM - Re: firestar for sale (gyrodude) 7. 08:07 PM - Re: Serenity Flies, Take 2 (west1m) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trailering a fire fly From: Robert Laird One method of supporting the boom tube on a Kolb MkIII (and other aircraft) is by using a PVC "saddle". This saddle is originally made for irrigation piping, but works perfectly with a little modification. The saddle itself requires no tweaking, but there is a pipe that connects to the saddle-tee, and the base of *that* needs a large castered wheel. Another good solution for supporting the boom tube while trailering is to find a "base" for the pipe that comes out of the saddle-tee, and affix the "base" to the trailer... then, after the Kolb is in place on the trailer, put the saddle-tee in place on the boom-tube, then screw a connecting pipe on to it and the base. One source: Irrigation Station LLP 11929 Windfern Houston, TX 77064 281-890-6574 sales@irrigationstation.com Part: 6 x 2 PVC IPS FIPT Saddle, product code 4460-20 @ $41.00 (The above part description, part #, and price is as of Aug 2008) The part information above is only for the saddle-tee. Also needed is a pipe, connected to the saddle-tee, and of course the wheel. (When I find a photo of the saddle in place on the boom tube, I'll post it here.) I've used this method (with the caster wheel for over 7 years with my Mk III. I also have the base that attached to my trailer floor, for securing it while transporting it. Below are mfg pix of saddle-tees. [image: Saddle-tee] On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Malcolm Brubaker wrote: > how wide is the boom tub? how long should the tube that fits into the > wing be? how far out from the center of the boom tube the wing suppo rt > tube is should depend on how much padding I have between the boom tube a nd > the wing, this problem totty took me by surprise. I think I have a good > handle on it, no pun intended > > > Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker > Michigan Sport Pilot Repair > http://michigansportpilotrepair.com > LSRM-A, PPC, WS > Great Sails - Sailmaker > for Ultralight & Light Sport > (989)513-3022 > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Stuart Harner > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, November 3, 2014 11:26 PM > *Subject:* RE: Kolb-List: trailering a fire fly > > How far do you have to haul it? I took mine 20 miles to the airport. I > followed the instructions in the builder=99s manual for folding and I made a > tail boom stand out of an automotive jack stand. It made it, but I would > not want to go much farther than that as there was enough movement of the > wings against the bracket that it wore all the powder coat off of the > bracket. I could not tell how much material was worn off of the aluminum > spar, but it had to be at least some. For a longer move I would want the > wing tips supported to the trailer, not the tail boom. > > > $50 worth of 2X4=99s, screws and carpet scraps could save a lot of damage. > > > In short, I think the wing fold brackets are find for sitting or moving i n > and out of storage, but are not good for long travels, especially on an > open trailer. > > > Search the archives, you will find much discussion and several pictures o f > how this has been accomplished by others. > > > I have a few photos of the firefly folded, but will have to look to see i f > there are any of it loaded on the trailer. > > > Stuart > > > *From:* owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Malcolm Brubaker > *Sent:* Monday, November 03, 2014 8:34 PM > *To:* Kolb-list matronics.com > *Subject:* Kolb-List: trailering a fire fly > > > we need to deliver a fire fly by open trailer next week the wing > attach points and bridle where never installed by the builder however it > was a quick build , he never intended to fold or hall it . now he is > dead and the estate needs it sold, My question is how to fold and haul it > safely? any pics would really be helpful > > Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker > Michigan Sport Pilot Repair > > http://michigansportpilotrepair.com > > LSRM-A, PPC, WS > Great Sails - Sailmaker > for Ultralight & Light Sport > (989)513-3022 > > > *www.aeroelectric.com * > > *www.buildersbooks.com * > > *www.homebuilthelp.com * > > *www.mypilotstore.com * > > *www.mrrace.com * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List * > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > > * > > _blank" rel="nofollow">www.aeroelectric.com > " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.homebuilthelp.com > ="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.mypilotstore.com > ank" rel="nofollow">www.mrrace.com > _blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > get="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-L ist > l= l=>"nofollow">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:10 AM PST US From: "Stuart Harner" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: trailering a fire fly Very interesting, thanks for posting. Question? Is the MKIII tail boom 6=9D in diameter? The firefly is 5=9D, so this may be too large unless you glue some padding of some kind inside of the saddle. Carpeting comes to mind. From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Laird Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 8:58 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trailering a fire fly One method of supporting the boom tube on a Kolb MkIII (and other aircraft) is by using a PVC "saddle". This saddle is originally made for irrigation piping, but works perfectly with a little modification. The saddle itself requires no tweaking, but there is a pipe that connects to the saddle-tee, and the base of that needs a large castered wheel. Another good solution for supporting the boom tube while trailering is to find a "base" for the pipe that comes out of the saddle-tee, and affix the "base" to the trailer... then, after the Kolb is in place on the trailer, put the saddle-tee in place on the boom-tube, then screw a connecting pipe on to it and the base. One source: Irrigation Station LLP 11929 Windfern Houston, TX 77064 281-890-6574 sales@irrigationstation.com Part: 6 x 2 PVC IPS FIPT Saddle, product code 4460-20 @ $41.00 (The above part description, part #, and price is as of Aug 2008) The part information above is only for the saddle-tee. Also needed is a pipe, connected to the saddle-tee, and of course the wheel. (When I find a photo of the saddle in place on the boom tube, I'll post it here.) I've used this method (with the caster wheel for over 7 years with my Mk III. I also have the base that attached to my trailer floor, for securing it while transporting it. Below are mfg pix of saddle-tees. Saddle-tee On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Malcolm Brubaker wrote: how wide is the boom tub? how long should the tube that fits into the wing be? how far out from the center of the boom tube the wing support tube is should depend on how much padding I have between the boom tube and the wing, this problem totty took me by surprise. I think I have a good handle on it, no pun intended Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker Michigan Sport Pilot Repair http://michigansportpilotrepair.com LSRM-A, PPC, WS Great Sails - Sailmaker for Ultralight & Light Sport (989)513-3022 _____ From: Stuart Harner Sent: Monday, November 3, 2014 11:26 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: trailering a fire fly How far do you have to haul it? I took mine 20 miles to the airport. I followed the instructions in the builder=99s manual for folding and I made a tail boom stand out of an automotive jack stand. It made it, but I would not want to go much farther than that as there was enough movement of the wings against the bracket that it wore all the powder coat off of the bracket. I could not tell how much material was worn off of the aluminum spar, but it had to be at least some. For a longer move I would want the wing tips supported to the trailer, not the tail boom. $50 worth of 2X4=99s, screws and carpet scraps could save a lot of damage. In short, I think the wing fold brackets are find for sitting or moving in and out of storage, but are not good for long travels, especially on an open trailer. Search the archives, you will find much discussion and several pictures of how this has been accomplished by others. I have a few photos of the firefly folded, but will have to look to see if there are any of it loaded on the trailer. Stuart From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm Brubaker Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 8:34 PM Subject: Kolb-List: trailering a fire fly we need to deliver a fire fly by open trailer next week the wing attach points and bridle where never installed by the builder however it was a quick build , he never intended to fold or hall it . now he is dead and the estate needs it sold, My question is how to fold and haul it safely? any pics would really be helpful Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker Michigan Sport Pilot Repair http://michigansportpilotrepair.com LSRM-A, PPC, WS Great Sails - Sailmaker for Ultralight & Light Sport (989)513-3022 www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com www.mypilotstore.com www.mrrace.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://forums.matronics.com _blank" rel="nofollow">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.mypilotstore.com ank" rel="nofollow">www.mrrace.com _blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/contribution get="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List l= "nofollow">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trailering a fire fly From: Robert Laird Relying on memory (a very dangerous thing!), yes, it's 6" in diameter. The PVC saddle has a thin (but not too thin) piece of rubber covering the entire inside surface, so that when it contacts the boom tube, it creates enough friction to stop the saddle from moving around on it (and protects the aluminum). Carpet might work, but you'd then have to worry about it moving around on you. I don't know if anyone makes a 5" saddle, but that's would be a better solution. Second-best would be to use something rubber-like with a lot of friction that would give a tight and very even "seal" around the tube. Until you mentioned the issue of its use with a 5" boom, it never occurred to me how lucky it is that this all works together so well! -- R On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Stuart Harner wrote: > Very interesting, thanks for posting. > > > Question? Is the MKIII tail boom 6=9D in diameter? > > > The firefly is 5=9D, so this may be too large unless you glue some padding > of some kind inside of the saddle. Carpeting comes to mind. > > > *From:* owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert Laird > *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 8:58 AM > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: trailering a fire fly > > > One method of supporting the boom tube on a Kolb MkIII (and other > aircraft) is by using a PVC "saddle". This saddle is originally made for > irrigation piping, but works perfectly with a little modification. The > saddle itself requires no tweaking, but there is a pipe that connects to > the saddle-tee, and the base of *that* needs a large castered wheel. > > Another good solution for supporting the boom tube while trailering is to > find a "base" for the pipe that comes out of the saddle-tee, and affix th e > "base" to the trailer... then, after the Kolb is in place on the trailer, > put the saddle-tee in place on the boom-tube, then screw a connecting pip e > on to it and the base. > > One source: > > Irrigation Station LLP > 11929 Windfern > Houston, TX 77064 > 281-890-6574 > sales@irrigationstation.com > > Part: 6 x 2 PVC IPS FIPT Saddle, product code 4460-20 @ $41.00 > (The above part description, part #, and price is as of Aug 2008) > > The part information above is only for the saddle-tee. Also needed is a > pipe, connected to the saddle-tee, and of course the wheel. (When I find a > photo of the saddle in place on the boom tube, I'll post it here.) I've > used this method (with the caster wheel for over 7 years with my Mk III. I > also have the base that attached to my trailer floor, for securing it whi le > transporting it. > > Below are mfg pix of saddle-tees. > > [image: Saddle-tee] > > > On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Malcolm Brubaker > wrote: > > how wide is the boom tub? how long should the tube that fits into the > wing be? how far out from the center of the boom tube the wing suppo rt > tube is should depend on how much padding I have between the boom tube a nd > the wing, this problem totty took me by surprise. I think I have a good > handle on it, no pun intended > > > Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker > Michigan Sport Pilot Repair > > http://michigansportpilotrepair.com > > LSRM-A, PPC, WS > Great Sails - Sailmaker > for Ultralight & Light Sport > (989)513-3022 > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Stuart Harner > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, November 3, 2014 11:26 PM > *Subject:* RE: Kolb-List: trailering a fire fly > > > How far do you have to haul it? I took mine 20 miles to the airport. I > followed the instructions in the builder=99s manual for folding and I made a > tail boom stand out of an automotive jack stand. It made it, but I would > not want to go much farther than that as there was enough movement of the > wings against the bracket that it wore all the powder coat off of the > bracket. I could not tell how much material was worn off of the aluminum > spar, but it had to be at least some. For a longer move I would want the > wing tips supported to the trailer, not the tail boom. > > > $50 worth of 2X4=99s, screws and carpet scraps could save a lot of damage. > > > In short, I think the wing fold brackets are find for sitting or moving i n > and out of storage, but are not good for long travels, especially on an > open trailer. > > > Search the archives, you will find much discussion and several pictures o f > how this has been accomplished by others. > > > I have a few photos of the firefly folded, but will have to look to see i f > there are any of it loaded on the trailer. > > > Stuart > > > *From:* owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Malcolm Brubaker > *Sent:* Monday, November 03, 2014 8:34 PM > *To:* Kolb-list matronics.com > *Subject:* Kolb-List: trailering a fire fly > > > we need to deliver a fire fly by open trailer next week the wing > attach points and bridle where never installed by the builder however it > was a quick build , he never intended to fold or hall it . now he is > dead and the estate needs it sold, My question is how to fold and haul it > safely? any pics would really be helpful > > Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker > Michigan Sport Pilot Repair > > http://michigansportpilotrepair.com > > LSRM-A, PPC, WS > Great Sails - Sailmaker > for Ultralight & Light Sport > (989)513-3022 > > > *www.aeroelectric.com * > > *www.buildersbooks.com * > > *www.homebuilthelp.com * > > *www.mypilotstore.com * > > *www.mrrace.com * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List * > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > > *_blank" rel="nofollow">www.aeroelectric.com * > > *" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.buildersbooks.com * > > *="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.homebuilthelp.com * > > *="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.mypilotstore.com * > > *ank" rel="nofollow">www.mrrace.com * > > *_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > *get="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb- List * > > *l= **"nofollow">http ://forums.matronics.com * > > > *www.aeroelectric.com * > > *www.buildersbooks.com * > > *www.homebuilthelp.com * > > *www.mypilotstore.com * > > *www.mrrace.com * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List * > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > > * > =========== m> ldersbooks.com> .com> com> om/contribution> =========== onics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List> =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:22 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: trailering a fire fly From: "George Alexander" brubakermal(at)yahoo.com wrote: > we need to deliver a fire fly by open trailer next week . . . .S N I P . . . My question is how to fold and haul it safely? any pics would really be helpful > Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker > There are a wide variety of configurations at "Trailering a Kolb": http://oh2fly.net/Main_trailer_kolb.htm -------- George Alexander FS II R503 N709FS http://www.oh2fly.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433005#433005 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:24 PM PST US From: David Kulp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Serenity Flies, Take 2 Hi Westy, When I read this post from you I thought I may be able to give you some action enhanced insight. I met a man who was interested in the FireFly and we arranged to meet at the strip where I had mine so he could check it out. The day turned out to be very windy with crosswind gusts to at least 18 mph - the wind sock was straight out at times. I wasn't aware of it at the time but he took numerous videos and pix, two videos which I uploaded on youtube. With a gusting crosswind I wanted to get off the ground as quickly as possible and this is what dancing with the rudder pedals looks like in real time. The landing wasn't as busy because you descend down between trees and touch down at the end of the stand of trees on the left. Take off downhill and land uphill. You know how light the FF is and is at the mercy of the wind, but they are like little sports cars and there is lots of control. On the landing you can also see the evidence of ground effect. Landing uphill you kind of fly into the hill and flair once you're through ground effect and flying parallel with the up grade, which is kind of trick because when you begin to ascend you lose airspeed rather quickly. Ground effect, according to the flight instructor I had, is as high above the surface as the wing span of the aircraft you're flying. So if you want to watch a FF doing what it does best (in spite of the pilot) go to youtube.com/undoctor Click on the video tab and for the takeoff video open the one labeled Kolb FlagFly FireFly taking off with crosswind gusting. For the landing video open the one labeled FireFly landing 8.11.11 in gusty crosswind... These two videos should give you some idea of how the FF does in less than perfect flying conditions. Hope they do you some good. You're gonna LOVE your FireFly!! Dave Kulp Bethlehem, PA Do Not Archive On 11/5/2014 8:32 PM, west1m wrote: > > Great write up! Having a Firefly I have not flown yet, your article is excellent information on what to expect. I tried taxing up and down the runway with a 90* crosswind the other day just see what to expect. It was a wild ride! > > -------- > West1m > Hastings, MN > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432983#432983 > > --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:01:13 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: firestar for sale From: "gyrodude" I listed the firestar on barnstormers and it sold in 2 hours. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433011#433011 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:25 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Serenity Flies, Take 2 From: "west1m" Thanks for the link to your videos. You make it look easy. I used up a lot more of the runway the other day and I was just trying to motor down the runway straight. -------- West1m Hastings, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433018#433018 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.