Today's Message Index:
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0. 12:19 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in December! (Matt Dralle)
1. 11:44 AM - Re: trailering a fire fly (KIRBY, DENNIS T GS-13 USAF AFMC AFNWC/ENS)
2. 12:36 PM - Re: Headphones (KIRBY, DENNIS T GS-13 USAF AFMC AFNWC/ENS)
3. 12:39 PM - Re: Headphones (Gary Aman)
4. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: Headphones (Rick Neilsen)
5. 01:07 PM - Re: Re: Headphones (John Hauck)
6. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: Headphones (Charlie England)
7. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Headphones (b young)
8. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: Headphones (b young)
9. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: Headphones ()
10. 04:07 PM - Re: Re: Headphones (Gary Aman)
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| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in |
December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: trailering a fire fly |
frank.goodnight wrote: << Hi Dennis, Please explain how you get the saddle under
the boom tube.
My mk3 tail is too heavy for me to lift. Do you use a jack under the Tail ? A
hoist? Or are you just really strong. Your method looks good. Frank >>
Frank / Kolb Friends -
I bring the dolly right up alongside the fuselage tube near the tail, wrap one
arm around the boom and lift, then slide the dolly under the tube. The saddle
on the dolly is only a few inches higher than the boom tube, so I don't have
to lift it very high.
Thanks for the compliment about being "strong," but ... there is only 65 pounds
of weight sitting on the tailwheel. Where I lift the tail boom - just at the
leading edge of the vertical fin - might be about 5 pounds more (due to shorter
lever arm, compared to location of the tail wheel).
When trailering, I roll the whole assembly up ramps onto my flatbed trailer. Then,
I use a jack to lift the rear of the Kolb (with the dolly still attached)
up high enough to slip an old car tire underneath the dolly, for extra shock
absorption.
George Alexander has been gracious enough to post other pictures of my tail boom
support dolly on his website.
Dennis Kirby
Sandia Park, New Mexico
Message 2
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Russ K asked: << Can someone tell me what brand of noise-cancelling headset works
well in a Kolb?
And hopefully doesn't break the bank either! Thanx >>
Russ / Kolbers -
I have found that my Mark-3 is the NOISIEST aircraft I have ever flown in. For
me, a noise-cancelling headset is a must.
One realizes how much noisier our Kolbs are compared to other GA airplanes when
we go back and fly a GA airplane. I took my BFR last week in my instructor's
1942 Interstate Cadet (looks like an Aeronca Champ). It was a bare-bones old
airplane with no sound insulation, yet it seemed luxuriously quiet compared to
my Kolb. I think it's because the engine in a Kolb sits quite close to our
heads.
I use a Lightspeed Sierra noise-cancelling headset, and at $500, it's the best
headset I've ever owned. Very comfortable, very quiet. I wish I could afford
a Zulu (thousand bucks). But I also wonder how much better the Zulu REALLY is
compared to the Sierra. I'd love to do a side-by-side comparison of the two
... in my Kolb. See if the Zulu is really that much better.
Is a $1000 headset really worth it? Remember - hearing damage is cumulative.
Every time you encounter any noise that makes your ears ring, it's PERMANENT damage
that has occurred, and it all adds up when we get old. For that reason,
I'll spend the money for a good headset.
Dennis Kirby
Noisy Mark-3 / 912ul
Do not archive
Message 3
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=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Gary Aman
<zeprep251@aol.com>=0ATo: kolb-list <kolb-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: M
on, Nov 10, 2014 9:38 pm=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List: Headphones=0A
=0A=0AI have a 30 year old pair of H10 -30 David Clarks
which I modified with Headsets Inc, noise cancelling kits w
hich cost 165.00 per headset I believe Rick N.had a chance
to try them on a few years back.They work pretty well for
me.they make kits for a bunch of brands and replace everythi
ng in the ear cups. Not that hard to install.=0A G.Aman
MK3 C Jabiru 920 hrs=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A-----Original Mes
sage-----=0AFrom: kinne russ <russk50@gmail.com>=0ATo: kolb-list <kolb
-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Mon, Nov 10, 2014 10:39 am=0ASubject:
russ <russk50@gmail.com>=0A=0AKolbers=0ACan someone tell me what
brand of noise-cancelling headset works well in a Kolb? =0A=0A
And hopefully doesn't break the bank either!=0AThanx=0ARuss K =0A
===========================
===========================
===========================
===========================
======================0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A
Message 4
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Yes the MKIII is noisy. I use a sigtronics passive headset that I installed
a Headsets Inc active canceling system in. Following headsets advice I
changed the cushions to silicone. This all helped a bunch but just wasn't
enough. Now I use earbuds that are used for personal music players. The
kind that fit in the ear canal and passively cancel noise. I wear these
earbuds under my active noise canceling headsets with the earbuds hooked to
my intercom. Between the two the noise is very comfortable even on long
flights. I can't comment on how this all compares to a $1000 headset but it
is quiet enough that I can recognize voices on the radio. Bose and a few
others make active noise canceling earbuds, seems like sony makes one in
the $40-$60 range. I toy with the idea putting one of these under my
headsets. Yes you will still hear the motor.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 3:36 PM, KIRBY, DENNIS T GS-13 USAF AFMC AFNWC/ENS <
dennis.kirby.3@us.af.mil> wrote:
> AFNWC/ENS" <dennis.kirby.3@us.af.mil>
>
> Russ K asked: << Can someone tell me what brand of noise-cancelling
> headset works well in a Kolb?
> And hopefully doesn't break the bank either! Thanx >>
>
> Russ / Kolbers -
>
> I have found that my Mark-3 is the NOISIEST aircraft I have ever flown
> in. For me, a noise-cancelling headset is a must.
>
> One realizes how much noisier our Kolbs are compared to other GA airplanes
> when we go back and fly a GA airplane. I took my BFR last week in my
> instructor's 1942 Interstate Cadet (looks like an Aeronca Champ). It was a
> bare-bones old airplane with no sound insulation, yet it seemed luxuriously
> quiet compared to my Kolb. I think it's because the engine in a Kolb sits
> quite close to our heads.
>
> I use a Lightspeed Sierra noise-cancelling headset, and at $500, it's the
> best headset I've ever owned. Very comfortable, very quiet. I wish I
> could afford a Zulu (thousand bucks). But I also wonder how much better
> the Zulu REALLY is compared to the Sierra. I'd love to do a side-by-side
> comparison of the two ... in my Kolb. See if the Zulu is really that much
> better.
>
> Is a $1000 headset really worth it? Remember - hearing damage is
> cumulative. Every time you encounter any noise that makes your ears ring,
> it's PERMANENT damage that has occurred, and it all adds up when we get
> old. For that reason, I'll spend the money for a good headset.
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Noisy Mark-3 / 912ul
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 5
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I believe it is because we fly a pusher instead of a tractor that our Kolbs
are so noisy.
Tractor prop runs in clean air. Pusher runs in very disturbed air with
blades and tips in close proximity to the trailing edge of the wing and the
tail boom.
There is no comparison between a 912ULS with 3 blade WD taper tip prop on a
RANS S12 and a MKIII. The difference in noise is amazing.
I don't think there is that much engine noise.
The enclosed fuselage and open ended tail boom act as a drum, amplifying the
noise right into the cockpit.
I am on the edge of not being able to hear with the DRE-6000 ANR headset. I
fly with the radio and intercom volume pegged as high as it will go.
Going to have to find another headset to help communicate or quit talking
and listening. Wearing ear plugs under my head set totally destroys my
ability to hear and understand.
Noise is extremely fatiguing. I flew 63.0 hours in 22 days last Sep out to
the Rock House in Oregon and back to Titus, Alabama. Many of those days
were 8.0 hour flying days. My butt had been kicked by the time I called it
quits each evening.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
I think it's because the engine in a Kolb sits quite close to our heads.
Dennis Kirby
Noisy Mark-3 / 912ul
Message 6
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I did sound reinforcement work in one of my previous lives, so I can
testify to the need for good hearing protection.
I've used a similar technique (earbuds under an active noise cancelling
headset) in an RV-4, and it's very effective. My wife & I now use QT Halo's
https://www.quiettechnologies.com/
They are passive (no batteries; no noise cancelling) but they are better
than my old active Lightspeeds. They avoid the issue John H. mentioned
by taking the sound directly into your ear canal, earbud style, while
sealing up your ear with a damping plug like a regular foam or silicone
earplug.
An airtight seal is very important for any noise reduction system to
work, and muff style protection has a very hard time achieving that,
with eyeglasses, head shape, ears, and hair (for those of us who still
have it) all conspiring to open an air path to our eardrums.
Oregon Aero used to make muff cushions (pricey) that would fit typical
aviation headsets and do a much better job of sealing up the ears.
I've never used one, but those who have say that a good aviation helmet
with built-in headset offers another layer of noise protection (with
safety benefits, too), but we're talking real money for those. Try
http://www.boneheadcomposites.com/
FWIW,
Charlie
On 11/12/2014 3:01 PM, Rick Neilsen wrote:
> Yes the MKIII is noisy. I use a sigtronics passive headset that I
> installed a Headsets Inc active canceling system in. Following
> headsets advice I changed the cushions to silicone. This all helped a
> bunch but just wasn't enough. Now I use earbuds that are used for
> personal music players. The kind that fit in the ear canal and
> passively cancel noise. I wear these earbuds under my active noise
> canceling headsets with the earbuds hooked to my intercom. Between the
> two the noise is very comfortable even on long flights. I can't
> comment on how this all compares to a $1000 headset but it is quiet
> enough that I can recognize voices on the radio. Bose and a few others
> make active noise canceling earbuds, seems like sony makes one in the
> $40-$60 range. I toy with the idea putting one of these under my
> headsets. Yes you will still hear the motor.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 3:36 PM, KIRBY, DENNIS T GS-13 USAF AFMC
> AFNWC/ENS <dennis.kirby.3@us.af.mil <mailto:dennis.kirby.3@us.af.mil>>
> wrote:
>
> AFNWC/ENS" <dennis.kirby.3@us.af.mil
> <mailto:dennis.kirby.3@us.af.mil>>
>
> Russ K asked: << Can someone tell me what brand of
> noise-cancelling headset works well in a Kolb?
> And hopefully doesn't break the bank either! Thanx >>
>
> Russ / Kolbers -
>
> I have found that my Mark-3 is the NOISIEST aircraft I have ever
> flown in. For me, a noise-cancelling headset is a must.
>
> One realizes how much noisier our Kolbs are compared to other GA
> airplanes when we go back and fly a GA airplane. I took my BFR
> last week in my instructor's 1942 Interstate Cadet (looks like an
> Aeronca Champ). It was a bare-bones old airplane with no sound
> insulation, yet it seemed luxuriously quiet compared to my Kolb.
> I think it's because the engine in a Kolb sits quite close to our
> heads.
>
> I use a Lightspeed Sierra noise-cancelling headset, and at $500,
> it's the best headset I've ever owned. Very comfortable, very
> quiet. I wish I could afford a Zulu (thousand bucks). But I also
> wonder how much better the Zulu REALLY is compared to the Sierra.
> I'd love to do a side-by-side comparison of the two ... in my
> Kolb. See if the Zulu is really that much better.
>
> Is a $1000 headset really worth it? Remember - hearing damage is
> cumulative. Every time you encounter any noise that makes your
> ears ring, it's PERMANENT damage that has occurred, and it all
> adds up when we get old. For that reason, I'll spend the money
> for a good headset.
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Noisy Mark-3 / 912ul
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 7
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Russ K asked: << Can someone tell me what brand of noise-cancelling headset
works well in a Kolb?
And hopefully doesn't break the bank either! Thanx >>
Russ
a friend had a pare of light speed,,, NC headsets that worked great in a ga
plane... was almost as good as nothing in my kolb. I had a pare of
acoustic headsets "pilot pa 60" better than the model light speed I
tried. then I bought some sigtronics echelon 150... when the
batteries wear out they are worse than the pilot pa60,,, but when the
batteries are ok they are a bit better. I have tried a pair of Bose head
sets, I dont know the model number,,, they were better than the echelon....
everything been so long ago I dont remember prices, I think I have heard
that the echelon 150 are no longer available. but they have a replacement
model.
the problem with most of the NC headsets, is they are optimized for the
noises of the Lycoming's, and continentals. not the higher rpm of the
rotax line of engines.
boyd young
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Message 8
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one more thing.... I have been looking at different inexpensive hearing
amplifiers. and trying to find one that has T coil technology. a good
set of hearing aids have the technology.... but I was trying for something
much more inexpensive.... that way you get an ear canal installation
under the NC headsets and dont have to listen to the noise that bypasses
the ear cups... and can do this without extra wiring. hearing aids without
the T coil would only amplify all the noise that bypasses the ear cup.
the T coil should only amplify the noise generated by the speaker.
hope someone gets an aha moment,,, and can say,,, why didn't I think of
that,,, I know just the thing.
boyd young
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Message 9
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That noise is extremely fatiguing. As Russ knows, I put a bulkhead behind
the pilots' heads on my Mark 3X with sound deadening foam on the back. It
cut the noise very noticable. It was still noisy, but my cheapo ANR
headsets brought it down to a tolerable level.
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 3:36 PM, KIRBY, DENNIS T GS-13 USAF AFMC AFNWC/ENS <
dennis.kirby.3@us.af.mil> wrote:
> AFNWC/ENS" <dennis.kirby.3@us.af.mil>
>
> Russ K asked: << Can someone tell me what brand of noise-cancelling
> headset works well in a Kolb?
> And hopefully doesn't break the bank either! Thanx >>
>
> Russ / Kolbers -
>
> I have found that my Mark-3 is the NOISIEST aircraft I have ever flown
> in. For me, a noise-cancelling headset is a must.
>
> One realizes how much noisier our Kolbs are compared to other GA airplanes
> when we go back and fly a GA airplane. I took my BFR last week in my
> instructor's 1942 Interstate Cadet (looks like an Aeronca Champ). It was a
> bare-bones old airplane with no sound insulation, yet it seemed luxuriously
> quiet compared to my Kolb. I think it's because the engine in a Kolb sits
> quite close to our heads.
>
> I use a Lightspeed Sierra noise-cancelling headset, and at $500, it's the
> best headset I've ever owned. Very comfortable, very quiet. I wish I
> could afford a Zulu (thousand bucks). But I also wonder how much better
> the Zulu REALLY is compared to the Sierra. I'd love to do a side-by-side
> comparison of the two ... in my Kolb. See if the Zulu is really that much
> better.
>
> Is a $1000 headset really worth it? Remember - hearing damage is
> cumulative. Every time you encounter any noise that makes your ears ring,
> it's PERMANENT damage that has occurred, and it all adds up when we get
> old. For that reason, I'll spend the money for a good headset.
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Noisy Mark-3 / 912ul
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 10
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Adding sound controlling foam to the cockpit and overhead center section made the
difference in my mk3,even with a Sensenich wood prop turning up to 3000rpm.
Added headsets inc. ANR kits to my 30 year old H 10-30 DCs for 165.00 each and
it is passable now.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 12, 2014, at 4:07 PM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> ended tail boom act as a drum, amplifying the
> noise right into the cockpit.
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