---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/21/15: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:16 AM - Re: Part 103 legal Firestar? (jimbaker@npacc.net) 2. 05:19 AM - MK III Engine Options (ron.dace(at)yahoo.com) 3. 06:10 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 02/20/15 (Denny Baber) 4. 06:17 AM - Re: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support (alienwes) 5. 06:46 AM - Re: MK III Engine Options (John Hauck) 6. 06:58 AM - Re: MK III Engine Options (ron.dace(at)yahoo.com) 7. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: MK III Engine Options (John Hauck) 8. 07:29 AM - Re: MK III Engine Options (Colin Hudson) 9. 08:17 AM - Re: MK III Engine Options (ron.dace(at)yahoo.com) 10. 08:30 AM - Re: MK III Engine Options (Rick Neilsen) 11. 10:12 AM - Re: Part 103 legal Firestar? (Tony Vitiello) 12. 03:06 PM - Re: MK III Engine Options (sfrIII) 13. 04:20 PM - Re: MK III Engine Options (John Hauck) 14. 06:37 PM - Re: MK III Engine Options (ron.dace(at)yahoo.com) 15. 07:35 PM - Re: Re: MK III Engine Options (undoctor) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:42 AM PST US From: jimbaker@npacc.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Part 103 legal Firestar? 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Would there be a common source for such information? 100 hp 912: 80 hp 912: 582: Jab 2200: Jab 3300: VW: Suzuki: Others? Reason for asking, I have a MK III Xtra airframe and am trying to decide what to do about an engine. I have a Suzuki 1.3 with a Raven on the shelf but am loosing confidence in it as an option (lack of support, complexity of the install, etc). -------- "But all the knowledge in the world is of no use to fools. And it's a long road out of Eden." - Eagles Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438544#438544 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:55 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 02/20/15 From: Denny Baber When I get upset with a company employee because I can't get my way, I ask to talk to their supervisor. I have found that the 17 year old experts do not always act in the companies best interest, so I talk to someone with authority to make the change. Sometimes, when they can't give me exactly what I want, I figure I'll get something else to make up for it, so I keep making various requests. Sometimes my persistence upsets them. But then I think about how they are in business to make money, it's the foundation of capitalism, so I see that my bad luck really wasn't their fault at all, it's just not a perfect world. Then I feel bad for trying to influence others because of my bad luck, and I just let it go. Respectfully, Dennis Baber baberdk@gmail.com 309-716-6005 Just the facts Ma'am On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 3:02 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server < kolb-list@matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 15-02-20&Archive=Kolb > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 15-02-20&Archive=Kolb > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Kolb-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 02/20/15: 7 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 06:39 AM - Re: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support > (John Hauck) > 2. 08:08 AM - Re: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support (b > young) > 3. 08:57 AM - Re: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support > (Richard Girard) > 4. 10:15 AM - Re: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support > (John Hauck) > 5. 02:58 PM - Re: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support > (Richard Pike) > 6. 03:09 PM - Re: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support > (TheWanderingWench) > 7. 08:55 PM - Part 103 legal Firestar? (Richard Pike) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:39:28 AM PST US > From: "John Hauck" > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support > > Whoa! > > Dennis has a problem with a company that has been in business for a good > while. Dennis' is the first complaint about this company that I am aware > of. > > Steve changes his mind, based on Dennis' one complaint, will not do > business > with JBM and is going to pass the word to the members of the RANS List??? > > All this based on one complaint? > > If that is how we do business I would have dropped Kolb 31 years ago when I > was building my Ultrastar. > > I have been doing business with JBM for a long time. Currently flying with > JBM carb boots and SS exhaust springs on my 912ULS. > > Maybe we need to back off and take a closer look at the situation before we > try to kill a man's business that seems, for the most part, to be providing > customers like me good products. > > Just my own personal opinion folks. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama - Still working on my first cup of coffee, waiting for > Spring, and Sun and Fun 2015. > > > Dennis: > > Thanks for the heads-up on this company. I plan to change the carb > socks along with other rubber parts at this year's annual. I will not do > business with JBM in light of your experience. I will also pass your words > on to members of the Rans list. > > Steve Spence > Auburn Hills, MI > former Mk3X owner > current S > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:08:23 AM PST US > From: "b young" > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support > > john have a second cup of coffee....relax and take a deep breath. Mayb > e a third cup of coffee. > > > Dennis has had an issue with JBM and stated his complaint in very quiet te > rms. I know there are 2 sides to every story and the only thing we have h > eard from JBM is what Dennis=99s responses from the company have be > en. if JBM wants to join the conversation I would like to hear what they > have to say. Only one other individual has mentioned his willingness > to avoid business with JBM and the only other thing he has stated he would > do is to share with others that there has been ONE complaint. no one has > gone out and cut JBM=99s phone or internet line. personally I ran > a plumbing business for years. Normally I stayed a few days behind my abi > lity to keep up. when I would have a warrantee call come in,,,, they wen > t to the top of the list. I figured if I did not take care of my past cus > tomers, I did not deserve new ones. when those people who had had somet > hing go wrong, and I took care of it quickly, and with a smile on my face. > they would tell their friends and neighbors. the phone would ring, and > soon I would be an extra day behind. Best advertising on earth, word of m > outh. > > seems you have had a good experience, and told other so. if anyone has pur > chased anything at JBM because of your recommendation, that is good.... D > ennis has had the opposite experience, In business you have to take the go > od with the bad. From Dennis's explanation, I did not think his request to > be overboard, and if JBM had responded with a smile and made Dennis Happy > , we wouldn=99t be having this discussion. seems Dennis was willing > to make another purchase,,, and if JBM would have accepted only $20 profit > instead of $30 profit on the item, the world would have been a happier > place. instead they canceled his order and decided to take $0.00 profit,( > and apparently a little bad press ) and if at least one other will not sh > op there,,, the net ledger sheet will be a negative number, when compared > to what it could have been. sounded to me like it was their choice. > > > My $0.02 worth > > > boyd young > > > sorry I got winded, do not archive. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Dennis has a problem with a company that has been in business for a good wh > ile. Dennis' is the first complaint about this company that I am aware of. > > > john h > > mkIII > > Titus, Alabama - Still working on my first cup of coffee, waiting for Sprin > g, and Sun and Fun 2015. > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:57:01 AM PST US > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support > From: Richard Girard > > I, too, have had nothing but good service and great parts from JBM. I don't > know what went wrong in Dennis' interaction with whomever he talked with at > JBM, but I've had three equally positive phone calls with them. If anyone > takes Dennis' account as an indictment to be spread to others you are doing > a disservice to them and JBM. > > Rick Girard > do not archive > > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 10:06 AM, b young > wrote: > > > john have a second cup of coffee....relax and take a deep breath. > > Maybe a third cup of coffee. > > > > > > Dennis has had an issue with JBM and stated his complaint in very quiet > > terms. I know there are 2 sides to every story and the only thing we ha > ve > > heard from JBM is what Dennis=99s responses from the company have > been. > > if JBM wants to join the conversation I would like to hear what they have > > to say. Only one other individual has mentioned his willingness to > > avoid business with JBM and the only other thing he has stated he would > do > > is to share with others that there has been ONE complaint. no one has > > gone out and cut JBM=99s phone or internet line. personally I ran > a > > plumbing business for years. Normally I stayed a few days behind my > > ability to keep up. when I would have a warrantee call come in,,,, the > y > > went to the top of the list. I figured if I did not take care of my pas > t > > customers, I did not deserve new ones. when those people who had had > > something go wrong, and I took care of it quickly, and with a smile on m > y > > face. they would tell their friends and neighbors. the phone would rin > g, > > and soon I would be an extra day behind. Best advertising on earth, wor > d > > of mouth. > > > > seems you have had a good experience, and told other so. if anyone has > > purchased anything at JBM because of your recommendation, that is > > good.... Dennis has had the opposite experience, In business you have t > o > > take the good with the bad. From Dennis's explanation, I did not think h > is > > request to be overboard, and if JBM had responded with a smile and made > > Dennis Happy, we wouldn=99t be having this discussion. seems Denn > is was > > willing to make another purchase,,, and if JBM would have accepted only $ > 20 > > profit instead of $30 profit on the item, the world would have been a > > happier place. instead they canceled his order and decided to take $0.0 > 0 > > profit,( and apparently a little bad press ) and if at least one other > > will not shop there,,, the net ledger sheet will be a negative number, > > when compared to what it could have been. sounded to me like it was the > ir > > choice. > > > > > > My $0.02 worth > > > > > > boyd young > > > > > > sorry I got winded, do not archive. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > Dennis has a problem with a company that has been in business for a good > > while. Dennis' is the first complaint about this company that I am aware > > of. > > > > > > john h > > > > mkIII > > > > Titus, Alabama - Still working on my first cup of coffee, waiting for > > Spring, and Sun and Fun 2015. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > > www.avast.com > > > > * > > > ========== > onics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List> > ========== > ========== > om/contribution> > ========== > > > > * > > > > > > > -- > > > Believe those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it. > -Andre Gide > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:15:17 AM PST US > From: "John Hauck" > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support > > Perhaps you misinterpreted my mood when I responded to Dennis and > Steve's post, which was primarily directed at Steve. I don't feel it's > necessary to start advertising Dennis' single complaint to try and shut > down JBM. > > No requirement for me to "relax and take a deep breath". I stay in a > pretty relaxed as it is. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama - Low and slow at hauck's holler, Alabama, keeping the > fireplace roaring!!!!!! > > > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of b young > Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 10:06 AM > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support > > john have a second cup of coffee....relax and take a deep breath. > Maybe a third cup of coffee. > > Dennis has had an issue with JBM and stated his complaint in very quiet > terms. I know there are 2 sides to every story and the only thing we > have heard from JBM is what Dennis=99s responses from the > company have been. if JBM wants to join the conversation I would like > to hear what they have to say. Only one other individual has > mentioned his willingness to avoid business with JBM and the only other > thing he has stated he would do is to share with others that there has > been ONE complaint. no one has gone out and cut JBM=99s phone or > internet line. personally I ran a plumbing business for years. > Normally I stayed a few days behind my ability to keep up. when I would > have a warrantee call come in,,,, they went to the top of the list. > I figured if I did not take care of my past customers, I did not > deserve new ones. when those people who had had something go wrong, > and I took care of it quickly, and with a smile on my face. they would > tell their friends and neighbors. the phone would ring, and soon I > would be an extra day behind. Best advertising on earth, word of > mouth. > seems you have had a good experience, and told other so. if anyone has > purchased anything at JBM because of your recommendation, that is > good.... Dennis has had the opposite experience, In business you have > to take the good with the bad. From Dennis's explanation, I did not > think his request to be overboard, and if JBM had responded with a > smile and made Dennis Happy, we wouldn=99t be having this > discussion. seems Dennis was willing to make another purchase,,, and > if JBM would have accepted only $20 profit instead of $30 profit on the > item, the world would have been a happier place. instead they > canceled his order and decided to take $0.00 profit,( and apparently a > little bad press ) and if at least one other will not shop there,,, > the net ledger sheet will be a negative number, when compared to what > it could have been. sounded to me like it was their choice. > > My $0.02 worth > > boyd young > > sorry I got winded, do not archive. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Dennis has a problem with a company that has been in business for a good > while. Dennis' is the first complaint about this company that I am > aware of. > > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama - Still working on my first cup of coffee, waiting for > Spring, and Sun and Fun 2015. > > > _____ > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:58:17 PM PST US > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support > From: "Richard Pike" > > > I bought carb boots from JBM several years ago and they are still doing > good, they > have some minuscule cracks in their centers, but nothing to worry about. > However > I do coat all my rubber parts with dielectric grease at installation and > at each annual condition inspection. I am very satisfied with JBM parts and > will continue to use them. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > "Living for your own pleasure is the least pleasurable thing a man > can do. > If his neighbors don't kill him in disgust he will die slowly of boredom > and > powerlessness." - Joy Davidman > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438539#438539 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:09:05 PM PST US > From: TheWanderingWench > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support > > First, a disclaimer: I have no doubt that Dennis experienced what he says h > e experienced with JBM. I know Dennis and have found him to be an honorable > man...and very meticulous when it comes to his flying addiction. > > I just want to say that I have been using JBM carb boots and miscellaneous > other small parts for some time, and have never had any problem with either > the items or with JBM. Steve - if you choose to never use JBM, that's one > thing. But I whole-heartedly agree with John that to start warning others o > ff a company based on one complaint - even if it is totally valid - is hard > to justify. > Arty TrostSandy, Oregon > =C2-www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm > > "Life's a daring adventure or nothing" > Helen Keller > > "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." > From: John Hauck > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 6:39 AM > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support > > Whoa! =C2-Dennis has a problem with a company that h > as been in business for a good while.=C2- Dennis' is the first complaint > about this company that I am aware of. =C2-Steve changes his mind, based > on Dennis' one complaint, will not do business with JBM and is going to pas > s the word to the members of the RANS List??? =C2-All this based on one c > omplaint? =C2-If that is how we do business I would have dropped Kolb 31 > years ago when I was building my Ultrastar. =C2-I have been doing busines > s with JBM for a long time.=C2- Currently flying with JBM carb boots and > SS exhaust springs on my 912ULS. =C2-Maybe we need to back off and take a > closer look at the situation before we try to kill a man's business that s > eems, for the most part, to be providing customers like me good products. > =C2-Just my own personal opinion folks. =C2-john hmkIIITitus, Alabama - > Still working on my first cup of coffee, waiting for Spring, and Sun and F > un 2015. =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Dennis: =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > Thanks for the heads-up on this company.=C2- I plan to change the carb s > ocks along with other rubber parts at this year's annual.=C2- I will not > do business with JBM in light of your experience.=C2- I will also pass yo > ur words on to members of the Rans list. =C2-Steve SpenceAuburn Hills, MI > former Mk3X ownercurrent S =C2- > > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:55:08 PM PST US > Subject: Kolb-List: Part 103 legal Firestar? > From: "Richard Pike" > > > Spent quite a while looking through the archives tonight, and it is > starting to > look sort of doubtful, but I thought I'd ask anyway: does anybody, > anywhere, > know of a Firestar of any vintage that ever actually made the 254 pound > weight > limit? > > The reason is that a local pilot has a very early model with a wrecked > cage and > a good everything else that can be had at a good price, and I am > considering > starting a new project... > > Thanks. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > "Living for your own pleasure is the least pleasurable thing a man > can do. > If his neighbors don't kill him in disgust he will die slowly of boredom > and > powerlessness." - Joy Davidman > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438543#438543 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:39 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support From: "alienwes" Dennis has been on this forum for awhile. I have read his posts and they always seem logical and without ill intentions. I agree that it should be reposted on the Rans list. Maybe others will come forward with their experiences, hopefully not and the guy he talked to is new or just had a lapse in judgement. But by documenting his experience people have something to reference if they also have a bad experience. If those on this forum had the same experience as Dennis, I am sure they would have posted it here. -------- Wesley Elliott Sport Pilot-PPC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438547#438547 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:11 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: MK III Engine Options Out of all those engines, to me, the best all around engine for the MKIII would be the 912UL, based on reliability and economy. Second best engine would be the 912ULS based on reliability and performance. Reliability is the number one factor for me in choosing power for an airplane, based on the environment we fly. We are not immune to gravity and there are many times I don't have a safe forced landing area. The past 21 years and 3,300.0+ hours flying my MKIII with a 912 (didn't have a 912UL in 1994), a 912S (that was the designation when I bought that engine) and a 912ULS, I have had two engine failures and both were fuel contamination and my fault, not the engines. The first two engines were sold at approximately 1,200.0 and 1,300.0 hours, both in excellent condition. The 912ULS has about 800.0 hours. I have no knowledge of the distribution of engines installed on the MKIII. The first engine I had on my MKIII was a 582. It seized at just over 200.0 hours. I have no personal experience flying the Jabs or VW. I'm guessing most folks don't power with the 912 series engines, going with alternatives, is price. There are not many VW, Suzuki, and BMW engines powering MKIII's. The above info is off the top of my head, and my experience and opinion only. If you don't fly a 912, please don't shoot me for my comments. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama --> I would be interested to know the distribution of engines installed on MK III classic and xtra airplanes and the pros and cons of each. Would there be a common source for such information? 100 hp 912: 80 hp 912: 582: Jab 2200: Jab 3300: VW: Suzuki: Others? Reason for asking, I have a MK III Xtra airframe and am trying to decide what to do about an engine. I have a Suzuki 1.3 with a Raven on the shelf but am loosing confidence in it as an option (lack of support, complexity of the install, etc). ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:11 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: MK III Engine Options From: "ron.dace(at)yahoo.com" > I'm guessing most folks don't power with the 912 series engines, going with alternatives, is price. Exactly, which is why I am looking. I will probably fly it in the 50 to 80 hour a year range (based on my current habits with a 172). An under 10K option would be optimal. If it cost more then a 912 would be worth considering. Buying new is expensive, buying used is fraught with risk. -------- "But all the knowledge in the world is of no use to fools. And it's a long road out of Eden." - Eagles Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438549#438549 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:30 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: MK III Engine Options I have known of many Kolbers buying used 912 engines. As far as I know, no has gotten bit. A good source for 912's is Ronnie Smith, South Mississippi Light Aircraft. Google to get his number is interested. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ron.dace(at)yahoo.com Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 8:58 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: MK III Engine Options --> > I'm guessing most folks don't power with the 912 series engines, going > with alternatives, is price. Exactly, which is why I am looking. I will probably fly it in the 50 to 80 hour a year range (based on my current habits with a 172). An under 10K option would be optimal. If it cost more then a 912 would be worth considering. Buying new is expensive, buying used is fraught with risk. -------- "But all the knowledge in the world is of no use to fools. And it's a long road out of Eden." - Eagles Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438549#438549 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:28 AM PST US From: Colin Hudson Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MK III Engine Options I've got a Mark 3 X-tra. Although I think the 912 is a fantastic engine I prefer my Jab 2200. It's very compatible to the 912 in price, performance and reliability. The thing I prefer over the 912 is like a Continental, the Jabiru runs directly off the crankshaft. Lower RPM and no gear reduction. I normally cruise around 2700 RPM. They rate the engine at 80 HP but the book says it's closer to 90. At max gross wt it will jump off the ground in 300' and climb at 1500' per min. There's been some talk about Jabs having cooling problems if they're not cowled right. In the open air pusher configuration of the Mark 3 I've had no problem with cooling. Scott Hudson N424AL M3X-tra Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 21, 2015, at 8:45 AM, John Hauck wrote: > > > Out of all those engines, to me, the best all around engine for the MKIII > would be the 912UL, based on reliability and economy. > > Second best engine would be the 912ULS based on reliability and performance. > > Reliability is the number one factor for me in choosing power for an > airplane, based on the environment we fly. We are not immune to gravity and > there are many times I don't have a safe forced landing area. The past 21 > years and 3,300.0+ hours flying my MKIII with a 912 (didn't have a 912UL in > 1994), a 912S (that was the designation when I bought that engine) and a > 912ULS, I have had two engine failures and both were fuel contamination and > my fault, not the engines. > > The first two engines were sold at approximately 1,200.0 and 1,300.0 hours, > both in excellent condition. The 912ULS has about 800.0 hours. > > I have no knowledge of the distribution of engines installed on the MKIII. > > The first engine I had on my MKIII was a 582. It seized at just over 200.0 > hours. > > I have no personal experience flying the Jabs or VW. > > I'm guessing most folks don't power with the 912 series engines, going with > alternatives, is price. > > There are not many VW, Suzuki, and BMW engines powering MKIII's. > > The above info is off the top of my head, and my experience and opinion > only. If you don't fly a 912, please don't shoot me for my comments. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > --> > > I would be interested to know the distribution of engines installed on MK > III classic and xtra airplanes and the pros and cons of each. Would there > be a common source for such information? > > 100 hp 912: > 80 hp 912: > 582: > Jab 2200: > Jab 3300: > VW: > Suzuki: > Others? > > Reason for asking, I have a MK III Xtra airframe and am trying to decide > what to do about an engine. I have a Suzuki 1.3 with a Raven on the shelf > but am loosing confidence in it as an option (lack of support, complexity of > the install, etc). > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:27 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: MK III Engine Options From: "ron.dace(at)yahoo.com" > Jab 2200 Did you have to modify the mount? Do you have pics of your installation? -------- "But all the knowledge in the world is of no use to fools. And it's a long road out of Eden." - Eagles Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438552#438552 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MK III Engine Options From: Rick Neilsen If your pockets are deep enough the Rotax 912 is your best choice. Pick the power and pay the price. I flew a bit with a guy that had a Jabiru on a Kolbra and it was a bit under powered. Later I flew in a MKIIIC with a Jabiru and it did quite well even over gross weight. I think prop selection is critical to get good performance. My first VW was a direct drive on my Kolb MKIIIC. The engine turned more HP into noise than thrust. Cruise RPM was 3200 and takeoff 3600. Later switched to a redrive VW and the performance difference was startling. For the fist time I had to feed in power slowly to keep from nosing over. I ended up cruising 10 MPH faster burning 1 GPH less fuel. The VW is a good choice as a inexpensive option. The install is not for the faint of hart. The accessories are the weak part on the engine so pick them carefully. I seem to have the most problems with fuel pumps. I'm currently flying with electric dual pumps in parallel. I have had my back up Facet pump fail and a rotary primary pump warning me with electrical surges before I replaced it. Cooling can be a problem if you ask the engine to run too hard, but under 80HP it is fine. Ground handling is also a problem. Get in a long line for take off and you will overheat the engine. I had one guy complaining that he couldn't run full throttle for more than 5 minutes on the ground before it over heated. You just can't do that. Seems like I read that someone was concerned about the complexity of installing a Raven engine. If that is a concern buy nothing but a Rotax engine package. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Colin Hudson wrote: > colin.scott.hudson@gmail.com> > > I've got a Mark 3 X-tra. Although I think the 912 is a fantastic engine I > prefer my Jab 2200. It's very compatible to the 912 in price, performance > and reliability. The thing I prefer over the 912 is like a Continental, > the Jabiru runs directly off the crankshaft. Lower RPM and no gear > reduction. I normally cruise around 2700 RPM. They rate the engine at 80 > HP but the book says it's closer to 90. At max gross wt it will jump off > the ground in 300' and climb at 1500' per min. There's been some talk > about Jabs having cooling problems if they're not cowled right. In the > open air pusher configuration of the Mark 3 I've had no problem with > cooling. > > Scott Hudson > N424AL > M3X-tra > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Feb 21, 2015, at 8:45 AM, John Hauck wrote: > > > > > > Out of all those engines, to me, the best all around engine for the MKIII > > would be the 912UL, based on reliability and economy. > > > > Second best engine would be the 912ULS based on reliability and > performance. > > > > Reliability is the number one factor for me in choosing power for an > > airplane, based on the environment we fly. We are not immune to gravity > and > > there are many times I don't have a safe forced landing area. The past > 21 > > years and 3,300.0+ hours flying my MKIII with a 912 (didn't have a 912UL > in > > 1994), a 912S (that was the designation when I bought that engine) and a > > 912ULS, I have had two engine failures and both were fuel contamination > and > > my fault, not the engines. > > > > The first two engines were sold at approximately 1,200.0 and 1,300.0 > hours, > > both in excellent condition. The 912ULS has about 800.0 hours. > > > > I have no knowledge of the distribution of engines installed on the > MKIII. > > > > The first engine I had on my MKIII was a 582. It seized at just over > 200.0 > > hours. > > > > I have no personal experience flying the Jabs or VW. > > > > I'm guessing most folks don't power with the 912 series engines, going > with > > alternatives, is price. > > > > There are not many VW, Suzuki, and BMW engines powering MKIII's. > > > > The above info is off the top of my head, and my experience and opinion > > only. If you don't fly a 912, please don't shoot me for my comments. > > > > john h > > mkIII > > Titus, Alabama > > > > --> > > > > I would be interested to know the distribution of engines installed on > MK > > III classic and xtra airplanes and the pros and cons of each. Would > there > > be a common source for such information? > > > > 100 hp 912: > > 80 hp 912: > > 582: > > Jab 2200: > > Jab 3300: > > VW: > > Suzuki: > > Others? > > > > Reason for asking, I have a MK III Xtra airframe and am trying to decide > > what to do about an engine. I have a Suzuki 1.3 with a Raven on the > shelf > > but am loosing confidence in it as an option (lack of support, > complexity of > > the install, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:43 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Part 103 legal Firestar? From: "Tony Vitiello" My friend has one built stock with a 447. When he bought it a few years ago he weighed it with the small stock wheels and it weighed exactly 254. He has since added slightly larger wheels but apparently can be done. If you were to go a few pounds over, how would anyone know? -------- Tony Vitiello St. Louis, MO Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438554#438554 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:23 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: MK III Engine Options From: "sfrIII" Hi all! Sam here in Idaho. I am currently building a MKIII Extra. My engine of choice is a converted Corvair Engine that I built for a different project. There are several pros and cons but the main reason for using a Corvair is price. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438562#438562 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/corvair_engine1_171.jpg ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:33 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: MK III Engine Options First and foremost, the 912 series is reliable first, has consistent power second, is not plagued with cooling problems, and is a super simple engine with extremely low maintenance. The down side is the price of the engine and the parts, but there is used stuff out there if one is willing to look for it. 4 gph at 80 mph in a MKIII ain't bad with the 912UL and 5 gph at 80 with a 912ULS. Also the 80 runs on 87 and the 100 runs on no less than 91 octane. I have had 5 engine outs and forced landings in my mkIII: -Ran out of gas in the mountains north of North Wilkesboro, NC, 10 minutes or less from the airport. 582 would not run on air alone. -Air filter, a double K&N on the 582, went AWOL and through a GSC 3 blade wooden prop. All 3 blades impacted the tail boom in the same place, bending it a few degrees out of column. Slung the carbs out of the "Rotax" sockets ;-) and the starter out of the aluminum bell housing. mkIII won't fly without prop blades, not for very long, and the 582 won't run unless carbs are installed in the sockets. -582 seized transitioning from takeoff and climb to cruise power. Solution: Get a 912 (they didn't have but one version of the engine in 1993). -Water and contamination in fuel. 912UL runs better on straight 87 octane. -Clogged fuel filter on same 912UL. Fuel will not pass through a completely blocked fuel filter. Do not be the first to get fuel from a new 1,000 gal fuel tank with new hose and nozzle that has not been flushed first. Flushing a new system into a tiny fuel filter will clog it completely. The above indicates one out of four engine outs were not pilot's fault. Pilot need to get his head out of his ___. Well, maybe I have. The last engine out was June 1994, just prior to my first flight to Alaska. Again of primary importance to me in engine selection is reliability. If my hobby was two dimensional and not three dimensional, I'd have a Kubota diesel pushing it. You get what you pay for, and you didn't pay for my opinion. So you're even. john h mkIII - 3,350.7 hours 912ULS - 782.2 hours Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Neilsen Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 10:28 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MK III Engine Options If your pockets are deep enough the Rotax 912 is your best choice. Pick the power and pay the price. I flew a bit with a guy that had a Jabiru on a Kolbra and it was a bit under powered. Later I flew in a MKIIIC with a Jabiru and it did quite well even over gross weight. I think prop selection is critical to get good performance. My first VW was a direct drive on my Kolb MKIIIC. The engine turned more HP into noise than thrust. Cruise RPM was 3200 and takeoff 3600. Later switched to a redrive VW and the performance difference was startling. For the fist time I had to feed in power slowly to keep from nosing over. I ended up cruising 10 MPH faster burning 1 GPH less fuel. The VW is a good choice as a inexpensive option. The install is not for the faint of hart. The accessories are the weak part on the engine so pick them carefully. I seem to have the most problems with fuel pumps. I'm currently flying with electric dual pumps in parallel. I have had my back up Facet pump fail and a rotary primary pump warning me with electrical surges before I replaced it. Cooling can be a problem if you ask the engine to run too hard, but under 80HP it is fine. Ground handling is also a problem. Get in a long line for take off and you will overheat the engine. I had one guy complaining that he couldn't run full throttle for more than 5 minutes on the ground before it over heated. You just can't do that. Seems like I read that someone was concerned about the complexity of installing a Raven engine. If that is a concern buy nothing but a Rotax engine package. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Colin Hudson wrote: I've got a Mark 3 X-tra. Although I think the 912 is a fantastic engine I prefer my Jab 2200. It's very compatible to the 912 in price, performance and reliability. The thing I prefer over the 912 is like a Continental, the Jabiru runs directly off the crankshaft. Lower RPM and no gear reduction. I normally cruise around 2700 RPM. They rate the engine at 80 HP but the book says it's closer to 90. At max gross wt it will jump off the ground in 300' and climb at 1500' per min. There's been some talk about Jabs having cooling problems if they're not cowled right. In the open air pusher configuration of the Mark 3 I've had no problem with cooling. Scott Hudson N424AL M3X-tra Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 21, 2015, at 8:45 AM, John Hauck wrote: > > > Out of all those engines, to me, the best all around engine for the MKIII > would be the 912UL, based on reliability and economy. > > Second best engine would be the 912ULS based on reliability and performance. > > Reliability is the number one factor for me in choosing power for an > airplane, based on the environment we fly. We are not immune to gravity and > there are many times I don't have a safe forced landing area. The past 21 > years and 3,300.0+ hours flying my MKIII with a 912 (didn't have a 912UL in > 1994), a 912S (that was the designation when I bought that engine) and a > 912ULS, I have had two engine failures and both were fuel contamination and > my fault, not the engines. > > The first two engines were sold at approximately 1,200.0 and 1,300.0 hours, > both in excellent condition. The 912ULS has about 800.0 hours. > > I have no knowledge of the distribution of engines installed on the MKIII. > > The first engine I had on my MKIII was a 582. It seized at just over 200.0 > hours. > > I have no personal experience flying the Jabs or VW. > > I'm guessing most folks don't power with the 912 series engines, going with > alternatives, is price. > > There are not many VW, Suzuki, and BMW engines powering MKIII's. > > The above info is off the top of my head, and my experience and opinion > only. If you don't fly a 912, please don't shoot me for my comments. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > --> > > I would be interested to know the distribution of engines installed on MK > III classic and xtra airplanes and the pros and cons of each. Would there > be a common source for such information? > > 100 hp 912: > 80 hp 912: > 582: > Jab 2200: > Jab 3300: > VW: > Suzuki: > Others? > > Reason for asking, I have a MK III Xtra airframe and am trying to decide > what to do about an engine. I have a Suzuki 1.3 with a Raven on the shelf > but am loosing confidence in it as an option (lack of support, complexity of > the install, etc). > > -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List FORUMS - _blank">http://forums.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:24 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: MK III Engine Options From: "ron.dace(at)yahoo.com" @sfrIII - Corvair is a lot of engine. Do you know if there are other MK III's flying with one? @John Hauck - I would love to have a 912 and will keep that option open as my research continues. That was the engine that was originally on the my Mk III airframe. The owner/builder couldn't sell the plane intact so he parted it out and sold the engine first. -------- "But all the knowledge in the world is of no use to fools. And it's a long road out of Eden." - Eagles Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438565#438565 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:41 PM PST US Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: MK III Engine Options From: undoctor RW5naW5lIHNlZWtlcnMsCgpIYXZlIGFueSBvZiB5b3UgY29uc2lkZXJlZCB0aGUgZW5naW5lIGZy b20gYSBIb25kYSBTVDExMDAgbW90b3JjeWNsZT8gwqBJdCdzIGHCoFY0IGFuZCBydW5zIHN3ZWV0 ZXIgdGhhbiBhbnkgQk1XIEkndmUgb3duZWQuIEkgcHV0IDEyOSwwMDAgbWlsZXMgb24gbXkgMjAw MCBTVCwgYW5kIEkndmUgZ290IGFib3V0IDE4MCwwMDAgbWlsZXMgb24gQmVlbWVycywgYm90aCBS IG1vZGVsIGFpcmhlYWRzIGFuIEsgbW9kZWwgYnJpY2tzLiBUaGUgUiBpcyBiZXR0ZXIgdGhhbiB0 aGUgSyBidXQgdGhlIFNULiBpcyBzd2VldGVyIHRoYW4gZWl0aGVyIG9mIHRoZW0uwqAKCkFuZCB5 b3UgY2FuIGJ1eSBvbmUgdXNlZCBmb3LCoGZpdmUgaHVuZHJlZCBidWNrcyEhIMKgR3JlYXQgZW5n aW5lLCBhc2sgRG9uIEdoZXJhZGluaSwgdGhlIEhvbmRhIE1vdG9ycyBlbmdpbmVlciB3aG8gYnVp bHQgdGhlIEZsYWdGbHkgSSBmbGV3LsKgCgoKU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IFZlcml6b24gV2lyZWxlc3Mg NEcgTFRFIFNtYXJ0cGhvbmUKCjxkaXY+LS0tLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgbWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0t LTwvZGl2PjxkaXY+RnJvbTogInJvbi5kYWNlKGF0KXlhaG9vLmNvbSIgPHJvbi5kYWNlQHlhaG9v LmNvbT4gPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5EYXRlOjAyLzIxLzIwMTUgIDk6MzcgUE0gIChHTVQtMDU6MDApIDwv ZGl2PjxkaXY+VG86IGtvbGItbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+U3ViamVjdDog S29sYi1MaXN0OiBSZTogTUsgSUlJIEVuZ2luZSBPcHRpb25zIDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+CjwvZGl2Pi0t PiBLb2xiLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6ICJyb24uZGFjZShhdCl5YWhvby5jb20iIDxy b24uZGFjZUB5YWhvby5jb20+CgpAc2ZySUlJIC0gQ29ydmFpciBpcyBhIGxvdCBvZiBlbmdpbmUu ICBEbyB5b3Uga25vdyBpZiB0aGVyZSBhcmUgb3RoZXIgTUsgSUlJJ3MgZmx5aW5nIHdpdGggb25l PwoKQEpvaG4gSGF1Y2sgLSBJIHdvdWxkIGxvdmUgdG8gaGF2ZSBhIDkxMiBhbmQgd2lsbCBrZWVw IHRoYXQgb3B0aW9uIG9wZW4gYXMgbXkgcmVzZWFyY2ggY29udGludWVzLiAgVGhhdCB3YXMgdGhl IGVuZ2luZSB0aGF0IHdhcyBvcmlnaW5hbGx5IG9uIHRoZSBteSBNayBJSUkgYWlyZnJhbWUuICBU aGUgb3duZXIvYnVpbGRlciBjb3VsZG4ndCBzZWxsIHRoZSBwbGFuZSBpbnRhY3Qgc28gaGUgcGFy dGVkIGl0IG91dCBhbmQgc29sZCB0aGUgZW5naW5lIGZpcnN0LgoKLS0tLS0tLS0KJnF1b3Q7QnV0 IGFsbCB0aGUga25vd2xlZGdlIGluIHRoZSB3b3JsZCBpcyBvZiBubyB1c2UgdG8gZm9vbHMuICBB bmQgaXQncyBhIGxvbmcgcm9hZCBvdXQgb2YgRWRlbi4mcXVvdDsgLSBFYWdsZXMKCgoKClJlYWQg dGhpcyB0b3BpYyBvbmxpbmUgaGVyZToKCmh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS92aWV3 dG9waWMucGhwP3A9NDM4NTY1IzQzODU2NQoKCgoKCgoKXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhl IEtvbGItTGlzdCBFbWFpbCBGb3J1bSAtCl8tPSBVc2UgdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBMaXN0IEZlYXR1 cmVzIE5hdmlnYXRvciB0byBicm93c2UKXy09IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1Y2gg YXMgTGlzdCBVbi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sCl8tPSBBcmNoaXZlIFNlYXJjaCAmIERvd25sb2FkLCA3 LURheSBCcm93c2UsIENoYXQsIEZBUSwKXy09IFBob3Rvc2hhcmUsIGFuZCBtdWNoIG11Y2ggbW9y ZToKXy09Cl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP0tvbGIt TGlzdApfLT0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZPUlVNUyAt Cl8tPSBTYW1lIGdyZWF0IGNvbnRlbnQgYWxzbyBhdmFpbGFibGUgdmlhIHRoZSBXZWIgRm9ydW1z IQpfLT0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQpfLT0KXy09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KXy09 ICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRpb24gV2ViIFNpdGUgLQpfLT0gIFRoYW5rIHlv dSBmb3IgeW91ciBnZW5lcm91cyBzdXBwb3J0IQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAtTWF0dCBEcmFsbGUsIExpc3QgQWRtaW4uCl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJv bmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09CgoKCg= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.