---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/23/15: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: Riveting question? (Herb) 2. 05:16 AM - Re: Re: Riveting question? (mojavjoe@comcast.net) 3. 06:08 AM - Re: Re: Riveting question? (Herb) 4. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Riveting question? (B Young) 5. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Riveting question? (B Young) 6. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: Riveting question? (Herb) 7. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: Riveting question? (Herb) 8. 08:39 AM - Auto Pilot for less than 100 bucks... (Herb) 9. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: Riveting question? (Charlie England) 10. 01:02 PM - Re: Auto Pilot for less than 100 bucks... (t41pilot) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:15 AM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? Thanks...but guess I did not make it clear...it is the drag strut fitting plates, which attach the strut to the Spar tube and into the H section..at the lift strut attach area... There are two gussets; the thick one on the bottom of the wing and the curved thin one on the side.. Herb On 03/22/2015 09:57 PM, west1m wrote: > > here is another pic > > -------- > West1m > Hastings, MN > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439751#439751 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dragstrut2_134.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:06 AM PST US From: mojavjoe@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? hurb my plans call for 1/8 1/8 steel rivets on the side gusset and 1/8 1/4=C2- steel rivets on the bottom, these should be steel and not stainless mojavjoe=C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herb" Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 8:03:56 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? Thanks...but guess I did not make it clear...it is the drag strut fitting plates, which =C2-attach the strut =C2-to the Spar tube and int o the H section..at the lift strut attach area... There are two gussets; the thick one on the bottom of the wing and the curved thin one on the side.. Herb On 03/22/2015 09:57 PM, west1m wrote: > > here is another pic > > -------- > West1m > Hastings, MN > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439751#439751 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dragstrut2_134.jpg > > > > > > > =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:23 AM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? Thanks... Wondering if the steel rivets are stronger in shear? Herb On 03/23/2015 07:15 AM, mojavjoe@comcast.net wrote: > hurb > my plans call for 1/8 1/8 steel rivets on the side gusset and 1/8 > 1/4 steel rivets on the bottom, these should be steel and not stainless > mojavjoe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From: *"Herb" > *To: *"kolb-list" > *Sent: *Monday, March 23, 2015 8:03:56 AM > *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? > > > Thanks...but guess I did not make it clear...it is the drag strut > fitting plates, which attach the strut to the Spar tube and into the H > section..at the lift strut attach area... There are two gussets; the > thick one on the bottom of the wing and the curved thin one on the > side.. Herb > > On 03/22/2015 09:57 PM, west1m wrote: > > > > here is another pic > > > > -------- > > West1m > > Hastings, MN > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439751#439751 > > > > > > > > > > Attachments: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dragstrut2_134.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > &nbs================ > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? From: B Young My mk 3 plans show. 1/8 x1/4 rivets on 1/2 in spacing. Where drag strut gusset attaches to Wing spar into H section my H section is uninstall chrome Molly steel. If you have thick wall aluminium H section you will probably need longer. Boyd Young On Mar 23, 2015 6:19 AM, wrote: > hurb > my plans call for 1/8 1/8 steel rivets on the side gusset and 1/8 > 1/4 steel rivets on the bottom, these should be steel and not stainless > mojavjoe > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Herb" > *To: *"kolb-list" > *Sent: *Monday, March 23, 2015 8:03:56 AM > *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? > > > Thanks...but guess I did not make it clear...it is the drag strut > fitting plates, which attach the strut to the Spar tube and into the H > section..at the lift strut attach area... There are two gussets; the > thick one on the bottom of the wing and the curved thin one on the > side.. Herb > > On 03/22/2015 09:57 PM, west1m wrote: > > > > here is another pic > > > > -------- > > West1m > > Hastings, MN > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439751#439751 > > > > > > > > > > Attachments: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dragstrut2_134.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > &nbs================ > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:40 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? From: B Young Steel would be stronger than aluminum. But I don't know between steel and stainless steel. The stainless steel won't rust. All the pulled rivets in my kit were stainless Boyd On Mar 23, 2015 7:10 AM, "Herb" wrote: > Thanks... > > Wondering if the steel rivets are stronger in shear? Herb > > On 03/23/2015 07:15 AM, mojavjoe@comcast.net wrote: > > hurb > my plans call for 1/8 1/8 steel rivets on the side gusset and 1/8 > 1/4 steel rivets on the bottom, these should be steel and not stainless > mojavjoe > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Herb" > *To: *"kolb-list" > *Sent: *Monday, March 23, 2015 8:03:56 AM > *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? > > > Thanks...but guess I did not make it clear...it is the drag strut > fitting plates, which attach the strut to the Spar tube and into the H > section..at the lift strut attach area... There are two gussets; the > thick one on the bottom of the wing and the curved thin one on the > side.. Herb > > On 03/22/2015 09:57 PM, west1m wrote: > > > > > here is another pic > > > > -------- > > West1m > > Hastings, MN > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439751#439751 > > > > > > > > > > Attachments: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dragstrut2_134.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > &nbs================ > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:35 AM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? These H sections are cro molly... I am rebuilding a set of wings...In the case of one wing the drag strut gussets were torn out and the root rib sustained damage and I replaced most of the ribs..... just a matter of match hole drilling a new set of gussets...I have the match hole strap "tool"...and it should work well.. Should be ready to cover in a day or so.. 7 rib Firestar wings.. They will be covered and in silver , ready to paint,,and will probably be for sale at a later date......Lift struts included.. I may try them on my "new to me" Firefly first......when and if I make it to Conn. to retrieve it... Any ideas as to how these wings might work on the Fly? Herb (heading to Fastenal ) On 03/23/2015 08:54 AM, B Young wrote: > > My mk 3 plans show. 1/8 x1/4 rivets on 1/2 in spacing. Where drag > strut gusset attaches to Wing spar into H section my H section is > uninstall chrome Molly steel. If you have thick wall aluminium H > section you will probably need longer. > Boyd Young > > On Mar 23, 2015 6:19 AM, > wrote: > > hurb > my plans call for 1/8 1/8 steel rivets on the side gusset and 1/8 > 1/4 steel rivets on the bottom, these should be steel and not > stainless > mojavjoe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From: *"Herb" > > *To: *"kolb-list" > > *Sent: *Monday, March 23, 2015 8:03:56 AM > *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? > > > > > Thanks...but guess I did not make it clear...it is the drag strut > fitting plates, which attach the strut to the Spar tube and into > the H > section..at the lift strut attach area... There are two gussets; the > thick one on the bottom of the wing and the curved thin one on the > side.. Herb > > On 03/22/2015 09:57 PM, west1m wrote: > > > > > > here is another pic > > > > -------- > > West1m > > Hastings, MN > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439751#439751 > > > > > > > > > > Attachments: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dragstrut2_134.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > &nbs================ > > > * > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:48 AM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? As I recall...the early Kolbs used steel rivets...and they worked very well..and the galvanic corrosion was not a problem as some thought...I rebuilt a MkIII and Ultrastar and both used steel rivets..Herb On 03/23/2015 09:09 AM, B Young wrote: > > Steel would be stronger than aluminum. But I don't know between > steel and stainless steel. The stainless steel won't rust. All > the pulled rivets in my kit were stainless > Boyd > > On Mar 23, 2015 7:10 AM, "Herb" > wrote: > > Thanks... > > Wondering if the steel rivets are stronger in shear? Herb > > On 03/23/2015 07:15 AM, mojavjoe@comcast.net > wrote: >> hurb >> my plans call for 1/8 1/8 steel rivets on the side gusset and 1/8 >> 1/4 steel rivets on the bottom, these should be steel and not >> stainless >> mojavjoe >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From: *"Herb" >> *To: *"kolb-list" >> >> *Sent: *Monday, March 23, 2015 8:03:56 AM >> *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? >> >> >> >> Thanks...but guess I did not make it clear...it is the drag strut >> fitting plates, which attach the strut to the Spar tube and >> into the H >> section..at the lift strut attach area... There are two gussets; the >> thick one on the bottom of the wing and the curved thin one on the >> side.. Herb >> >> On 03/22/2015 09:57 PM, west1m wrote: >> >> > >> > here is another pic >> > >> > -------- >> > West1m >> > Hastings, MN >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439751#439751 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Attachments: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dragstrut2_134.jpg >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> &nbs================ >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> >> * > > * > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:52 AM PST US From: Herb Subject: Kolb-List: Auto Pilot for less than 100 bucks... On another subject.... spent my career in the computer business...Hardware and little software...too little software...for computer hardware is sold like candy bars...and the real emphasis is in programming.. always interested in computers...built my first one in the 1970's...Motorolla 6800 chip..running at a blazing 1 mhz...:-) 1 k of memory...hot stuff!!! that said....I bought two credit card sized computers...one called Ardunio and the other is a Raspberry Pi... The Ardunio has had many additional plug "on" logic boards built for it...One of interest is called the 10DOF...It encompasses a three axis accelerometer.. three axis gyroscope.. a compass(magnetometer) and a barometer that can serve as an altimeter... GPs boards are also available. I believe that many of the "so called" drones use a similar device that can be bought from hobby shops.. for a lot more money...the 10dof cost about 30 bucks...and Chinese clones(9DOF) sell for 12 or so...The Ardunio knock off's sell for 8 bucks...I bought the Fundunio...:-) All to be found on Ebay.... Lots of canned software....and much info on You tube..and elsewhere.. Pretty sure the C band satellite servo's , available from your neighbors yard for free would have enough power to operate trim tabs.. Or large hobby ones..for more money.. wondering if anyone else has thought of trying one on a Kolb...with strong servo's on the trim tabs...it should be possible to fly long distances with minimal input...naturally, rough air would throw it off...and cause gyrations as happens on "real planes" with auto pilots ...:-) Herb ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:30 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? Most steels are stronger than stainless. Stainless is usually 'tougher', but has less strength than high carbon steel. If you do a little googling, you can find charts that show both shear and tension strength of rivets all kinds & materials. I fly heavier (won't say 'bigger' to avoid offending John H) homebuilts, and in that world, most of us are pretty careful about deviating from the designer's instructions in structural areas. There can even be situations where 'stronger' may actually increase risk of failure in the overall structure, so following the designer's specs is the safest path, unless we are at least as qualified at engineering as he was. :-) Charlie On 3/23/2015 9:09 AM, B Young wrote: > > Steel would be stronger than aluminum. But I don't know between > steel and stainless steel. The stainless steel won't rust. All > the pulled rivets in my kit were stainless > Boyd > > On Mar 23, 2015 7:10 AM, "Herb" > wrote: > > Thanks... > > Wondering if the steel rivets are stronger in shear? Herb > > On 03/23/2015 07:15 AM, mojavjoe@comcast.net > wrote: >> hurb >> my plans call for 1/8 1/8 steel rivets on the side gusset and 1/8 >> 1/4 steel rivets on the bottom, these should be steel and not >> stainless >> mojavjoe >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From: *"Herb" >> *To: *"kolb-list" >> >> *Sent: *Monday, March 23, 2015 8:03:56 AM >> *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: Re: Riveting question? >> >> >> >> Thanks...but guess I did not make it clear...it is the drag strut >> fitting plates, which attach the strut to the Spar tube and >> into the H >> section..at the lift strut attach area... There are two gussets; the >> thick one on the bottom of the wing and the curved thin one on the >> side.. Herb >> >> On 03/22/2015 09:57 PM, west1m wrote: >> >> > >> > here is another pic >> > >> > -------- >> > West1m >> > Hastings, MN >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439751#439751 >> > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:55 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Auto Pilot for less than 100 bucks... From: "t41pilot" Back when I was building my firefly, I thought of installing electric trim for an elevator tab. I did some research on RC servos and wind loads. I took worst case scenarios for a trim tab at 90 degrees to the airflow and found that sail winch servos for boats had more than enough torque to do the job. I came up with a circuit using a 555 timer and a bargraph to show position of the trim tab (assuming no mechanical failure of the linkage). I never installed the system though so have no actual flight data but in theory it could work. Arduino already has sketches for servos and 10dof sensors since robots have become so prolific, so I'm sure if you put your mind to it, it could be done. I have used arduino circuits in my plane in other capacities such as strobe lights and capacitive fuel indicator with a bargraph. I'm just installing the arduino version fuel indicator now. My analog version worked just fine but I got bored over the winter and had to invent a new one with a larger, brighter display. My circuits for the plane as well as links to my Youtube videos can be found on my web page. http://myplace.frontier.com/~t41pilot/index.html -------- Gregg Kaat 2011 Firefly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439798#439798 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.