---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/28/15: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:34 AM - Re: Firefly/447 RPM question (Richard Pike) 2. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question (John Hauck) 3. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question (Jim Baker) 4. 09:20 AM - Re: N58SG Sold (west1m) 5. 05:56 PM - Re: Firefly/447 RPM question (Richard Pike) 6. 07:28 PM - Re: Firefly/447 RPM question (Stuart Harner) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:46 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question From: "Richard Pike" John Hauck wrote: > Shouldn't the plug check be done at the power setting that you want to > check, e.g., cruise, WOT, etc? > > If the plugs are checked after landing and taxi back to the hanger, does > that not give you an indication for low speed, low power settings? > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > -- I have always heard that, but years ago when I was building dirt bikes - 2 stroke - I would check the plugs after a plain "ride," and then do a run at a specific speed or load to check the jetting, and I couldn't see the difference. Perhaps an expert with a magnifying glass could, but in my laymans experience, the plugs sort of were what they were. For instance, putting in brand new plugs, going out and doing a test, and then pulling them and looking at them, there was not enough accumulation to tell much of anything. Maybe I was just doing something wrong, or maybe I am missing something. I would be glad to hear from somebody who is actually real good at that particular skill. Since I run at cruise power & 1,000' AGL 95% of the time, and then just pull it back on final, and then a fast idle downhill to taxi to the hangar, I am thinking that I am not going to alter the appearance of the plugs all that much from their normal state by that last 3 minutes of run time. But I could be wrong. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441434#441434 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:39 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question That's what I'm thinking. I can't see well enough to tell minute differences. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama I have always heard that, but years ago when I was building dirt bikes - 2 stroke - I would check the plugs after a plain "ride," and then do a run at a specific speed or load to check the jetting, and I couldn't see the difference. Perhaps an expert with a magnifying glass could, but in my laymans experience, the plugs sort of were what they were. For instance, putting in brand new plugs, going out and doing a test, and then pulling them and looking at them, there was not enough accumulation to tell much of anything. Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:29 AM PST US From: Jim Baker Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question UmVhZGluZyBwbHVncyBpcyBoaWdobHkgc3ViamVjdGl2ZS4gUHJvcGVyIHdheSBpcyB0byBwaWNr IHlvdXIgb3BlcmF0aW5nIFJQTSB0byBiZSBldmFsdWF0ZWQsIHJ1biBhdCB0aGF0IHNwZWVkIGZv ciBhdCBsZWFzdCA1IG1pbiB0aGVuIGN1dCB0aGUgaWduaXRpb24uIFByb2JsZW1hdGljIHdpdGgg YWNmdCBzaW5jZSB5b3UnZCBiZSBsYW5kaW5nIHBvd2VyIG9mZiwgbm90IGhhcmQgYnV0IG5vdCBp ZGVhbCwgZWl0aGVyLiBUaGVuIHlvdSBoYXZlIHRvIGV2YWx1YXRlIHRoZSBjb2xvciBvZiB0aGUg Y2VyYW1pYyBkZWVwIGluIHRoZSBpbnN1bGF0b3Igd2VsbC4uLi4uZ29vZCBsdWNrIHdpdGggdGhh dC4KCkVHVCBpcyBtdWNoIHNhZmVyIGFuZCB3YXkgbW9yZSByZXZlYWxpbmcuIEkgaGF2ZW4ndCBy dW4gaW50byBhIHBlcmZlY3RseSBqZXR0ZWQsIGNhcmJ1cmV0ZWQgdHdvIHN0cm9rZS4uLi5ldmVy 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Temp when we started flying was low 60's. MKIII Classic, 582, 2 people, 1@200 lbs, 1@185. Full throttle climbout, 6300 rpm, 50 mph, EGT 1000. Water temp constant at 140 in all situations. Cruise 1075-1100 EGT, stayed very constant, no appreciable variability. RPM varies 5500-5900. (Lots of lift & sink across the low hills) Airspeed averaged 65. Temp later in the day 70, no change in any of the above numbers, airspeed on final approach at a couple different strips was 60, EGT 1000 @ 3000-3800 rpm. I fly cruise airspeed until time to throttle back, dump the flaps, and reset the trim. Final numbers, 1.5 hours total, 7 gallons used. Last landing of the day before I took the pictures had time on final of probably less than a minute at 3-4k rpm, burst of power on short final. Landing, turning around and taxiing to the hangar took probably around a minute and a half, was at a low rpm, EGT was at 900. Pulled the plugs and took several pictures, this one is the most accurate in terms of how they actually looked. Interestingly, the plugs at the PTO end were lighter and more reddish, the ones at the mag end were a bit darker and more grey. Numbering from left to right, #1 is closest to the mag. #2 is also mag end cylinder, but closer to the PTO end, #3 is the PTO side cylinder, mag end, and #4 is PTO side cylinder, PTO end. Have no idea why the difference. Based on everything I have seen today, and on the way the plugs look now (IMO slightly on the rich side of ideal) I think that once summer gets here with much hotter temperatures, I will raise the needle clip by one notch to lower the needle and lean it a tad, and in the fall drop it back down to its current position to richen it a bit in the winter. Not sure that this establishes any sort of jetting/load/EGT/spark plug doctrine or proves anything, I just found this whole topic interesting and wanted to pursue it. Maybe it will be food for thought, and as Beauford says: worth what ya paid for it. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441475#441475 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1040455_medium_124.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:01 PM PST US From: "Stuart Harner" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question Well today the wind was light and variable and it was 60 by noon. Headed to the airport. By the time I got launched into the air, it was nearly 2PM. Rough and bumpy! Just enough thermal action to make it not pleasant. Went up to 1500' AGL and it only got worse. Dropped back to 800' and it was a little better. Did some playing around at different RPM's and airspeeds. 5500 was yielding about 60 to 65 indicated. Nosing over and unloading the engine would spike the EGT. I have reset the alarm to 1190 Saw it jump to 1220 once. Quick application of throttle or enricher takes care of it. Flew for about 30 minutes between 5 and 6K. Not much fun so headed back. EGT spike again, added full enrich to keep it cool. Kept some power on all the way to the ground and made a nice landing. Back to idle, tail down, engine quit! WTH??? Turns out I just forgot to take off the enrich and I flooded it. Got it going again and taxied back to the hangar. Decided to add 1/2 of pitch to the prop. Messed around with that for a while, had a soft drink, visited around some. Then could not stand it any longer, had to go back up. Was able to get 6300+ on takeoff and it still climbs like a scalded cat. Air was a little smoother, so decided to go for a ride. Flew up to my house ~20 miles away. At 5500 I was getting a consistent 65 MPH indicated, 600o would get me to 70. In the thermals if I nosed over to keep from climbing, I could easily see 70-75 MPH. Air was still rough enough it was hard to maintain speed AND altitude. So I would work on one, then the other. Even at 5000 RPM I was still seeing 60 MPH or more and the EGT was running in the mid to upper 1100 range but no alarms going off. Back to the airport, if I pulled power into the high 4000 range and nosed over, I would get an alarm. Just as I was struggling to get down for a landing, I noticed that the wind had shifted and was now on my tail. Go around time! Circled and got lined up for the opposite end and still had some trouble getting down, even with some fairly aggressive slips. Backed down to the3500 range and nosed over, then the ground came up fast. Airspeed was at 50 so all was well, added some power and rounded out for a fairly decent landing. So all in all, the mid-range lean problem is much smaller than it was and even though I moved the prop a little towards a cruise setting it did not affect the climb at all. I want to get up in some really smooth air to do more testing before making any more changes. 1.8 hours on the tach and a good day! Thanks for all the advice and input. This is going to be FUN! Stuart ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.