Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:30 AM - Re: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question (Jim Baker)
2. 05:47 AM - Re: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question (Stuart Harner)
3. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question (John Hauck)
4. 08:41 AM - 5 inch tube (Jerry Scrabeck)
5. 09:18 AM - Re: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question (Stuart Harner)
6. 10:07 AM - Re: 5 inch tube (George Myers)
7. 02:56 PM - Re: Firefly/447 RPM question (Richard Pike)
8. 03:14 PM - Re: 5 inch tube (Herb)
9. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question (John Hauck)
10. 03:26 PM - Re: 5 inch tube (John Hauck)
11. 05:59 PM - Re: 5 inch tube (Dan Walter)
12. 06:33 PM - Re: 5 inch tube (Herb)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly/447 RPM question |
This a single point egt setup?
Jim Baker
405 426 5377
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net>
Sent: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 8:55 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question
OK, had a good flying day today. Temp when we started flying was low 60's. MKIII
Classic, 582, 2 people, 1@200 lbs, 1@185. Full throttle climbout, 6300 rpm,
50 mph, EGT 1000. Water temp constant at 140 in all situations.
Cruise 1075-1100 EGT, stayed very constant, no appreciable variability. RPM varies
5500-5900. (Lots of lift & sink across the low hills) Airspeed averaged 65.
Temp later in the day 70, no change in any of the above numbers, airspeed on final
approach at a couple different strips was 60, EGT 1000 @ 3000-3800 rpm. I
fly cruise airspeed until time to throttle back, dump the flaps, and reset the
trim.
Final numbers, 1.5 hours total, 7 gallons used. Last landing of the day before
I took the pictures had time on final of probably less than a minute at 3-4k rpm,
burst of power on short final. Landing, turning around and taxiing to the
hangar took probably around a minute and a half, was at a low rpm, EGT was at
900. Pulled the plugs and took several pictures, this one is the most accurate
in terms of how they actually looked. Interestingly, the plugs at the PTO end
were lighter and more reddish, the ones at the mag end were a bit darker and
more grey.
Numbering from left to right, #1 is closest to the mag. #2 is also mag end cylinder,
but closer to the PTO end, #3 is the PTO side cylinder, mag end, and #4
is PTO side cylinder, PTO end. Have no idea why the difference.
Based on everything I have seen today, and on the way the plugs look now (IMO slightly
on the rich side of ideal) I think that once summer gets here with much
hotter temperatures, I will raise the needle clip by one notch to lower the
needle and lean it a tad, and in the fall drop it back down to its current position
to richen it a bit in the winter.
Not sure that this establishes any sort of jetting/load/EGT/spark plug doctrine
or proves anything, I just found this whole topic interesting and wanted to pursue
it. Maybe it will be food for thought, and as Beauford says: worth what
ya paid for it.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those
to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441475#441475
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1040455_medium_124.jpg
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly/447 RPM question |
There are probes for both cylinders (and heads). The page I was using on the EIS
shows Altitude and Rate of Climb so it only shows the hottest cylinder.
Adding the small amount of pitch did increase the head temps by a few degrees,
but they are staying below 400.
This is a single carb setup and the rear cylinder runs a few degrees warmer than
the front.
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Baker
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 5:30 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question
This a single point egt setup?
Jim Baker
405 426 5377
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Pike <thegreybaron@charter.net>
Sent: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 8:55 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question
--> <thegreybaron@charter.net>
OK, had a good flying day today. Temp when we started flying was low 60's. MKIII
Classic, 582, 2 people, 1@200 lbs, 1@185. Full throttle climbout, 6300 rpm,
50 mph, EGT 1000. Water temp constant at 140 in all situations.
Cruise 1075-1100 EGT, stayed very constant, no appreciable variability. RPM varies
5500-5900. (Lots of lift & sink across the low hills) Airspeed averaged 65.
Temp later in the day 70, no change in any of the above numbers, airspeed on final
approach at a couple different strips was 60, EGT 1000 @ 3000-3800 rpm. I
fly cruise airspeed until time to throttle back, dump the flaps, and reset the
trim.
Final numbers, 1.5 hours total, 7 gallons used. Last landing of the day before
I took the pictures had time on final of probably less than a minute at 3-4k rpm,
burst of power on short final. Landing, turning around and taxiing to the
hangar took probably around a minute and a half, was at a low rpm, EGT was at
900. Pulled the plugs and took several pictures, this one is the most accurate
in terms of how they actually looked. Interestingly, the plugs at the PTO end
were lighter and more reddish, the ones at the mag end were a bit darker and
more grey.
Numbering from left to right, #1 is closest to the mag. #2 is also mag end cylinder,
but closer to the PTO end, #3 is the PTO side cylinder, mag end, and #4
is PTO side cylinder, PTO end. Have no idea why the difference.
Based on everything I have seen today, and on the way the plugs look now (IMO slightly
on the rich side of ideal) I think that once summer gets here with much
hotter temperatures, I will raise the needle clip by one notch to lower the
needle and lean it a tad, and in the fall drop it back down to its current position
to richen it a bit in the winter.
Not sure that this establishes any sort of jetting/load/EGT/spark plug doctrine
or proves anything, I just found this whole topic interesting and wanted to pursue
it. Maybe it will be food for thought, and as Beauford says: worth what
ya paid for it.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those
to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441475#441475
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1040455_medium_124.jpg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly/447 RPM question |
I believe it is normal for the PTO cylinder to run warmer than the Mag cylinder
based on the cooling system configuration.
Over the years I discovered Rotax two stroke engines were tuned at the factory
for 0 to 1500 feet ASL on a 70F day. To keep temps in the green, all that is
necessary is prop the engine/aircraft correctly. I also discovered if I propped
the engine/aircraft to just bump the red line, 6500 rpm, wide open throttle,
straight and level flight, all parameters were happy and I got the best performance,
climb and cruise, with a fixed pitch/ground adjustable prop.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
This is a single carb setup and the rear cylinder runs a few degrees warmer than
the front.
Stuart
Message 4
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I=99m still hopeing to find someone who has a 5 inch .058 6061
alum. tube to replace my twinstar=98s broken spar.need 12 ft,. 4
in.Any information on manufacturers or retailers also appreciated. Jerry
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly/447 RPM question |
Airport elevation is 1940' so that would make me think that the factory setup would
run rich but that is not what I am seeing. I have checked the carb and all
the parts are original sizes.
Total time on the engine is only 20 hours, so I am inclined to leave things about
where they are until I get another 20 or so on it. If I do anything, it would
be to add another little bit of pitch.
In ND we are the state of wild temperature changes so there is likely to be at
least some variation from day to day.
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 8:39 AM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question
I believe it is normal for the PTO cylinder to run warmer than the Mag cylinder
based on the cooling system configuration.
Over the years I discovered Rotax two stroke engines were tuned at the factory
for 0 to 1500 feet ASL on a 70F day. To keep temps in the green, all that is
necessary is prop the engine/aircraft correctly. I also discovered if I propped
the engine/aircraft to just bump the red line, 6500 rpm, wide open throttle,
straight and level flight, all parameters were happy and I got the best performance,
climb and cruise, with a fixed pitch/ground adjustable prop.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
This is a single carb setup and the rear cylinder runs a few degrees warmer than
the front.
Stuart
Message 6
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I have a 5=9D twinstar tube 14=996=9D long.
George Myers
1500 IH 35 South
San Marcos, TX 78666
512-353-4860
Mon-Fri 9am to 5pm
Sat 9am to 3pm
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Scrabeck
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 10:41 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: 5 inch tube
I=99m still hopeing to find someone who has a 5 inch .058 6061
alum. tube to replace my twinstar=98s broken spar.need 12 ft,. 4
in.Any information on manufacturers or retailers also appreciated. Jerry
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly/447 RPM question |
[quote="John Hauck"]I believe it is normal for the PTO cylinder to run warmer than
the Mag cylinder based on the cooling system configuration.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
[quote]
Is that for air cooled or water cooled? I can see that for aircooled on a pusher,
but how would that work on a 582? The water temp ought to be 140 on both cylinders
since that was what my new probe in the head was claiming.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those
to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441516#441516
Message 8
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Jerry
Hope you understand my position...once I began to think about
shipping...I could see that I did not have the ability to get it to you
safely... It is wrapped and in the barn...if you know of someone who can
pick it up...
I do not know of anyone...Travis tells me that , and I think I told
you. the only plant is in Ohio and they require 1000 lb order to run the
6 and 5 inch tubes.. Not sure about that..but a search of the web did
not turn anything up...
Herb
On 04/29/2015 10:40 AM, Jerry Scrabeck wrote:
> Im still hopeing to find someone who has a 5 inch .058 6061 alum.
> tube to replace my twinstars broken spar.need 12 ft,. 4 in.Any
> information on manufacturers or retailers also appreciated. Jerry
> *
>
>
> *
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly/447 RPM question |
Air cooled.
jrh
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 4:56 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly/447 RPM question
--> <thegreybaron@charter.net>
[quote="John Hauck"]I believe it is normal for the PTO cylinder to run
warmer than the Mag cylinder based on the cooling system configuration.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
[quote]
Is that for air cooled or water cooled? I can see that for aircooled on a
pusher, but how would that work on a 582? The water temp ought to be 140 on
both cylinders since that was what my new probe in the head was claiming.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and
those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441516#441516
Message 10
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Check with an irrigation company. They use 5 and 6 inch 6061T6 for
their circle irrigation systems. The only problem with attempting to
obtain a tube from them is the condition of the tube after it leaves the
mill. They don't baby them the way we airplane builders do. They will
be scratched and dented. If you could find one with minor flaws, could
probably be polished out. I see a few specimens that have been saved
and are still flying, although I don't think I would want one on my
mkIII.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 5 inch tube
Jerry
Hope you understand my position...once I began to think about
shipping...I could see that I did not have the ability to get it to you
safely... It is wrapped and in the barn...if you know of someone who can
pick it up...
I do not know of anyone...Travis tells me that , and I think I told
you. the only plant is in Ohio and they require 1000 lb order to run the
6 and 5 inch tubes.. Not sure about that..but a search of the web did
not turn anything up...
Herb
On 04/29/2015 10:40 AM, Jerry Scrabeck wrote:
I=99m still hopeing to find someone who has a 5 inch .058 6061
alum. tube to replace my twinstar=98s broken spar.need 12 ft,. 4
in.Any information on manufacturers or retailers also appreciated. Jerry
Message 11
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Herb, The 5" is what the Ultrastar used I think. Where is Jerry
located? I have a piece but as you say shipping would be a problem.
Dan
Dan Walter
Palmyra, PA
Ercoupe 415C but still love Kolbs
Do not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Herb
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 5 inch tube
Jerry
Hope you understand my position...once I began to think about
shipping...I could see that I did not have the ability to get it to you
safely... It is wrapped and in the barn...if you know of someone who can
pick it up...
I do not know of anyone...Travis tells me that , and I think I told
you. the only plant is in Ohio and they require 1000 lb order to run the
6 and 5 inch tubes.. Not sure about that..but a search of the web did
not turn anything up...
Herb
On 04/29/2015 10:40 AM, Jerry Scrabeck wrote:
I=99m still hopeing to find someone who has a 5 inch .058 6061
alum. tube to replace my twinstar=98s broken spar.need 12 ft,. 4
in.Any information on manufacturers or retailers also appreciated. Jerry
Message 12
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Minnnneeesssooootaaa! Email . He is on the list...
skrabekk@charter.net
jerry....is his name..
On 04/29/2015 07:59 PM, Dan Walter wrote:
> Herb, The 5" is what the Ultrastar used I think. Where is Jerry
> located? I have a piece but as you say shipping would be a problem. Dan
> Dan Walter
> Palmyra, PA
> Ercoupe 415C but still love Kolbs
> Do not Archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Herb <mailto:Herbgh@nctc.com>
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com <mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 29, 2015 6:14 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: 5 inch tube
>
> Jerry
>
> Hope you understand my position...once I began to think about
> shipping...I could see that I did not have the ability to get it
> to you safely... It is wrapped and in the barn...if you know of
> someone who can pick it up...
>
> I do not know of anyone...Travis tells me that , and I think I
> told you. the only plant is in Ohio and they require 1000 lb order
> to run the 6 and 5 inch tubes.. Not sure about that..but a search
> of the web did not turn anything up...
>
> Herb
>
> On 04/29/2015 10:40 AM, Jerry Scrabeck wrote:
>> Im still hopeing to find someone who has a 5 inch .058 6061
>> alum. tube to replace my twinstars broken spar.need 12 ft,. 4
>> in.Any information on manufacturers or retailers also
>> appreciated. Jerry
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
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